Should billions be spent on 'space travel'?

Why not put money into "green" tech?

The justification of space research is that we need more stuff and more space. Why not find out ways to do more with less? Why not work on improving earth, and not worry about terraforming Mars?

I think space research is a big waste. Even though it may eventually pay off, we will have thoroughly trashed this planet. We don't even know what's in our own oceans.
 
So we'd mine asteroids for gold, silver and iron.

You can't eat gold, and you can't get energy out of any of these asteroids. Mining in space for elements we have easy access to, right here on terra forma is idiotic. Why would people even consider thinking such stupid ideas?
 
Because we can; because using the vast resources of the solar system is our 'manifest destiny'.
Here is the vision of Anders Sandberg, a founding member of the Orion's Arm project, of a future society living on, and between, every world in our system, looking to the stars for new worlds to explore.

http://www.orionsarm.com/whitepapers/vision.html

There is enough of every element in our solar system to build millions of artificial worlds,
capable of housing and feeding a trillion people;

Using the power of our sun we can make this vision a reality; there is plenty of it - the energy of the sun represents the same amount of energy as released by the annihilation of two million tonnes of antimatter per second.

And that is just one sun among billions.

Colonising space will have a long, difficult, expensive start up period; but once the various resources of the solar system and of the various stellar systems of our galaxy have been gathered into a more usable formation then our civilisation will start to realise its true potential.
 
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If billions upon billions are going to be invested (actually we're talking of trillions as to our accomplishing anything surviving the likes of Mars), those amounts need to directly benefit humanity, and that horrific investment must include the lower 99.9% of humanity and not just the upper 0.1% that doesn't require any benefits, other than more money and energy resources (every last drop) as obtained from the lower 99.9%.

Thus far, there as been absolutely nothing Mars related, or of what's further away that humanity has ever benefited from in the past, nor is there anything on the future books that'll provide even a penny of actual worth per billion dollars invested into anything Mars, and much less of whatever is further away.

The moon is offering something all together different, whereas there's loads of energy benefits, plus earth sciences and of what the moon itself within has to offer humanity:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm

Except there's a wee bit of a nasty little problem with any notion of getting ourselves onto and back from the moon: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photo-entro.htm

Venus has also been offering humanity something all together different:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm.htm
and
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/earth-venus.htm

And there's lots more within the UPDATE page.
Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm
 
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According to this perfectly fine group; http://ri.essortment.com/newplanets_rsma.htm
"With our current technology, a trip to the nearest star system would take over 40,000 years"
and of so many others claiming similar proposals that are not offering much better off.

Of which this obviously isn't even pertaining to the Sirius star system at 8.7 light years distant and counting, as that's a good 100,000 years worth, while averaging at ten fold better off velocity than we can sustain a probe, much less of any manned expedition as of today, and that's without such efforts first taking that decade worth of acceleration loops past our sun. And to think, just what in the hell have we for shielding (physical as well as radiation worthy) that sort of 2,000+ generation (one-way) biological expedition?

Instead of continually blowing billions upon billions, and of wasting decades worth of talents and resources getting such technology and efforts off the ground, that's why I've focused upon photon communications, and of getting ourselves up to the efficient standard of utilizing such affordable, environmentally clean and obviously speedy packet exchanges, rather than risking all there is upon any sort of physical accomplishments, outside of what's situated right nextdoor (moon/Venus, but NOT the likes of Mars or further).

Although, going for what our moon has to offer, and of what's situated upon Venus is just fine and dandy, as in affordable, doable and certainly worthy of what the lower 99.9% of humanity (apparent scum of the Earth) could use to survive upon, in spite of the other 0.1% of absolute incest cloned borgs that obviously couldn't give a flying puck about any other humanity, outside of their own sorry butts.

The moon/lunar Space Elevator topic (several pages worth of viable topics) offers something for everyone that's related to improving our chances/odds of our ever interplanetary-communicating with ET, and/or of getting ourselves safely to/from the likes of Mars, though preferably Venus. As for accommodating that sort of honest quest, as such we'll soon be in need of a darn good Lunar Space Elevator, or the GMDE (Guth Moon Dirt Express) as for accommodating the ultimate space depot, and/or nearby nullification gateway in the sky:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm

BTW; there's at least a hundred perfectly good and honset topics related to this LSE-CM/ISS, of which I'd like others to tackle as many as they see fit. Anyone anti-moon, or even anti-Venus will be exterminated on the spot, as in the most profecient manor possible. So, don't expect my persomal favor returning to soften if you intend to block or pretend to being something other than whom you are, that is if you know what's good for yourself.

Regards, Brad Guth / GASA~IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-242.htm
 
Huhh... there is some new research on Quantum mechanics that migh someday, not extremely far away, make avaiable instant teletransportation.... So... other stars will become possible... ;)

No, seriously, I think nature is very generous with us. Everything that we need we have. The universe is exactly how it should be to accomodate us (even if it takes some time to figure it out). It is quite interesting.... ;)

And as for giving food and water to poor people, and solving our problems here on earth, I think that is certainly important. But I would lie to say that space exploration is definetely more important then wars, and all the useless junk that we produce. If we weren't wasting so much money with our vanity and greed, we would have already solved all our problems and maybe we would even be set to reach the stars.... :cool:
 
TruthSeeker,
Why physically goto some godforsaken other star system?

For that matter, why even goto Mars or any further away than Venus?

Why chance running ourselves into that pesky dust-bunny at even 1%"c"?

Why travel at all when we can already communicate at nearly light speed within our local area code, and perhaps otherwise exceed the "c" limitation by a fairly good factor with what we already have to work with, thus making the likes of calling Sirius something that's doable within our lifetimes, and without roasting another batch of astronauts, nor of creating that 100:1 tonnage of artificial CO2 for mother Earth, as per tonne sent on it's way to god knows where?

I'm assuming that we're not limiting our explorations as to finding merely diatoms or microbes, though perchance heathens ott to be on the list. Isn't it most likely that others are actually smarter than humans. I mean, of how many countless examples of our utter stupidity and arrogance because of our dumb and dumber than dumbfounded incompetence do we need to show, as to prove that other life simply has got to be smarter than Earth humans?

Perhaps we should feel lucky that we're not being abducted for our protein value, or perhaps for some ET school or lab experiments. You know, like how we capture and/or breed animals for their torture and demise at learning how they survive. There's actually something quite perverted and sick about that last statement.

BTW; your "But I would lie to say that space exploration is definetely more important then wars" is either a nasty syntax error or typo, or did you really mean what you typed?

Never fear because, I make loads of dyslexic errors all the time, whereas half the time I don't even understand what I'd typed the day before.
 
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bradguth,

One of the reasons why I support going to other planets is that I believe that our own planet already suffered enough with ourselves. With all the useless junk that we produce and the stupidities that we make, chances are that if we don't get out of here our planet may not quite survive.Even if we change our mentality, we already have a lot going on that we cannot stop and I really don't see a better way to do this.

I don't think it is bad to get out of here. I think it would be good to preserve our planet. We could also terraform other planets, giving us more space. The universe is big. We are insignificant. I think we could be able to trash the rest of the universe... :D

Hepefully we will learn a way to adapt our desires to the environment(s)...

bradguth said:
BTW; your "But I would lie to say that space exploration is definetely more important then wars" is either a nasty syntax error or typo, or did you really mean what you typed?

Never fear because, I make loads of dyslexic errors all the time, whereas half the time I don't even understand what I'd typed the day before.
Click to expand...
Read it in context ;)

TruthSeeker said:
And as for giving food and water to poor people, and solving our problems here on earth, I think that is certainly important. But I would lie to say that space exploration is definetely more important then wars, and all the useless junk that we produce. If we weren't wasting so much money with our vanity and greed, we would have already solved all our problems and maybe we would even be set to reach the stars....
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I ment that it would be a lie if I would say that war and useless junk is more important then wars. I believe that if we are going to waste our money, then we should waste it on something that could work and be useful someday - space exploration.

Maybe nowdays it is not such a good business. But with a few technological advancements and lower costs, we could terraform other planets and expand our horizons.

Who wouldn't like to go to Mars on holidays? ;)



Why not read this ,btw...?
 
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While I most certainly don't think we should just abandon the people who are suffering here on Earth, it should not be an impediment to space exploration.

The simple fact of the matter is there will always be suffering. There will always be poverty, there will always be hunger, and there will always be disease. Yes, ensure these problems are taken care of. No, don't take away from exploring this bright new frontier because of it.

It's human nature to explore, and as we advance socially and technologically,and as our population size skyrockets, we need to move on out into space. Without these expensive baby steps we're taking now, how would it be cheap and easy to make huge leaps in the future when it's needed?

Maybe robots can do a lot of the work for us out there, but at the end of the day, a human hand and a human eye is still needed sometimes. It's important for people to be out there as well.

Now with all that said, I do think things could be done more cheaply. However, I think this will soon be a reality as private industry has entered the space age. On a relative scale, is it really that much a waste of money? In under half a century, we've made the steps that will forever change the very nature of the human society. I don't think we can really put a price tag on that. Maybe we could, if it continues to be as expensive as it has been in the past...however, indications are that it won't.
 
private spenders should be allowed to spend their money however they choose, after all it is their money no matter how many people they kill to reach their monetary goal. as for the government spending so much money for space travel...well they're looking for a place for us to live after we ruin earth. what will probably happen is that all of the rich will simply take their money and fly to the new habitable planet and leave the sick, poor, and dying here. perhaps that will be a better thing. after all the rich people leave, there will be more food, less government, but there will still be poverty no matter what you do. humans have the need to destroy and their need makes them impovershed. so...should we spend money on space travel...? yes should we be worried about the future of space travel? no, because once all of the rich people get off of earth no one will be able to afford it, but you know there's going to be one person who stays on earth and takes over. move over hitler...the new pres is in.
 
All the problems U humans face today r because there is no 1 government and only single currency for your entire planet. Do that and see the change, follow the following
<IFrame src="http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=542097#post542097" height=500 width=700></IFRAME>
 
Logically Unsound said:
i heard that by 2400 theyll be so many people on earth that well all be stood side by side and so much electricity will be being produced that the earth will glow red.
if you want to stay here, be my guest.
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My dad was assured that by 1980 we'd have colonies on mars and flying cars (I recommend reading past claims, you'd be amazed by how sure everyone was). Surprise! in 2004, we've barely begun to scratch mars' surface.

Let's face it, humanity is REALLY bad at future speculation.
 
The second post already answered the question. The answer is: it's irrelevant. Instead of worrying about the pennies that NASA gets, or the privately-funded companies are spending on space exploration, let's first worry about the over-bloated runaway budget of national 'defense.'

The first step might be to make its priority defense, not offense. Anyone who wants to know why we should continue to invest in space exploration need look no further than Pale Blue Dot by Dr. Carl Sagan.
 
mmm, okay, so we're hopeless gonners that are going to destroy whatever we touch? God has put us in this beautiful universe and the first thing we think is "don't touch you might frgin break something"? BS!! we are meant to touch, to smear, to do things that we don't think would, could, or should've happened. yes, we are probably primitive species compared to some races out in the void, but what the hell, why are people moaning on and on and on like we're not worthy or some shit? sorry to be annoyed, but it's these same kind of people that are Amish, hermits, nomads, and anybody else who is happy with the way things are and doesn't want ANY CHANGED. of course, weather we like it or not, everything changes anyway. the earth shifts, the stars will move, suns will die and others will come to glorious life, and all some people can say is oh, let's not get off the planet, we might break something, we can be fine like it is. we can be happy happy people for ever in complete and perpetual stupidity! guess what, no one's gonna wait for that to happen. it's not really a matter of IF we should put money into getting off this rock, it's more of a matter of WHEN it's going to happen, that the average lamen can venture into the great beyond
 
liát'dano said:
Just finished typing my thread and Windows decided to érror' grrrrr!

Anyway, I am a newie here and I must debate the topic below for the negative team. First reaction was 'for' the statement, but now I'm not so sure.

"Spending billions on 'space travel' is wrong, while millions of people on earth lack adequate food and water"

There is so much I could possibly discuss - how would the money be spent anyway? foreign aid does not seem to be working to well. Then, should the quest for knowledge be hindered in the face of urgent issues that need addressing? Then again, how much is the gov't actually spending on space travel/exploration/quest for knowledge? If it is a substantial amount (seems over the top, which I'm guessing it is) then is it really necessary, when so many are suffering? I am a strong advocate for human/environmental rights but I can't justify cutting scientific budgets if the money is not going to be put to best practical use. Sorry!, so many questions and no answers :confused: , so I look forward to a response.
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We'll why not spend a few billion dollars on space travel/space exploration.....We're spending over 200 billion on Bush's (he calls himself the "Peace President") Iraq war!

Yob Atta :)
 
We'll why not spend a few billion dollars on space travel/space exploration.....We're spending over 200 billion on Bush's (he calls himself the "Peace President") Iraq war!
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Allow me to correct your figure, my friend... :D
It has already been more then 1 trillion dollars.... :rolleyes: ;)
 
That would work too. Anything BUT wars and homocides.... :bugeye:
And cheap useless technological toys... :rolleyes:
 
Mr. Chips said:
I believe you can see some hard core evidence that Bush's desires result in squelching the most fruitful science for an exercise in vanity and distraction from his grossly inadequate policies in virtually every field.
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Well there is your answer. Why go down scientific paths when you clearly have your political one. Just say space exploration clearly isn't feasible until a Democrat is President! You won't even need to bother with facts.
 
QUOTE=eburacum45]Because we can; because using the vast resources of the solar system is our 'manifest destiny'.
Here is the vision of Anders Sandberg, a founding member of the Orion's Arm project, of a future society living on, and between, every world in our system, looking to the stars for new worlds to explore.

http://www.orionsarm.com/whitepapers/vision.html

There is enough of every element in our solar system to build millions of artificial worlds,
capable of housing and feeding a trillion people;

Using the power of our sun we can make this vision a reality; there is plenty of it - the energy of the sun represents the same amount of energy as released by the annihilation of two million tonnes of antimatter per second.

And that is just one sun among billions.

Colonising space will have a long, difficult, expensive start up period; but once the various resources of the solar system and of the various stellar systems of our galaxy have been gathered into a more usable formation then our civilisation will start to realise its true potential.[/QUOTE]

OMG! What The Hell are you talking about, there is enough of every element in our solar system to build millions of artificial "Worlds" capable of housing and feeding a trillion people??? :confused: Like get real, for that to happen we are gonna have to wait another thousand years... :bugeye: i dont even think all that money theyre spending on that bullshit is worth it. Theyre are like hundreds of people dying every day and all this fucking people care about is the freaking space??? What about humanity??? What about all of those poor kids in africa that die every single day cuz they dont have anything to eat or a shelter or whatever... i mean, if space and war are our #1 worries now, then we are certainly getting nowwhere. We are gonna end up like shit. Lets all start to take care of the world around us and stop worrying about the fucking stars!!! and if that doesnt happen, well i hope u die bitch!
 
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