Segregation and Ethnic cleansing as a democratic policy


uniquely dreadful
Valued Senior Member
Construction has begun on new Jewish housing near Arab al-Suahara with permission from Jerusalem city hall, which is one of the owners of the property.The area covers 3.5 dunams and the contractor, Bemuna, plans to build three 7-8 story buildings, comprising 62-66 apartments. Construction began two months ago.

Attorney Dani Seidemann, the legal counsel for Ir Amim, a non-profit organization that works toward coexistence in Jerusalem, insists that the plot on which the new construction is taking place is part of the urban continuity of the Arab neighborhood.

Seidemann says that the area was never included in the area on which Talpiot East was built and that it had never been planned to be part of a Jewish neighborhood.

In a letter to Barkat, Seidemann asks to know how the municipality, which supports Jewish construction in the heart of Arab neighborhoods, intends to promote the construction of Palestinian housing in the middle of Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

He pointed to an interview Barkat gave last August in which he said that he understands the concerns of the Jewish residents on French Hill because Palestinians were purchasing apartments there, and considers it legitimate for them to preserve a homogenous, ethnic make up of the neighborhood.

Seidemann asked how the municipality can encourage, on the one hand, Jewish construction in Palestinian neighborhoods, and on the other support Jewish residents seeking to keep Arabs from moving into their neighborhoods.

In other news

Native Israelis, at least half of them second generation, constitute 70 percent of the country's population, a sharp increase from 1948, in which native Israelis constituted 35 percent of the country's population.

While in 1948 Tel Aviv, with a population of 248,000, was Israel's sole city, in modern day Israel there are 14 cities, each with over 100,000 residents, five of them - Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Rishon Letzion and Ashdod - with a population of over 200,000

In still other news:

I hear that Clinton was shocked by what she saw on her visit last month to the West Bank. This is not surprising. The transition from Israel’s first-world hustle-bustle to the donkeys, carts and idle people beyond the separation wall is brutal. If Clinton cares about one thing, it’s human suffering.

In fact, you don’t so much drive into the Palestinian territories these days as sink into them. Everything, except the Jewish settlers’ cars on fenced settlers-only highways, slows down. The buzz of business gives way to the clunking of hammers.

The whole desolate West Bank scene is punctuated with garrison-like settlements on hilltops. If you’re looking for a primer on colonialism, this is not a bad place to start.

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You should

A current blog by Martin Peretz speaks of torture as by no means necessarily a bad thing. Several years ago, c. 2004, at the NYU Remarque Center, a visiting Israeli scholar observed to an American historian after a talk on human rights, "I have concluded there is no point talking to you Americans about torture-- your attitude is not serious." He meant the attitude of American liberals such as could be found at the Center. Israelis, he implied, knew in their bones that torture was necessary. The remark was passed on by the American, whom it deeply impressed--he thought it a salutary rebuke, a piece of worldly wisdom. How many share this double perspective?

Note that, though the Israeli Supreme Court outlawed torture in 1999, the reports of Israeli torture of Palestinians have been drastically persistent. This BBC story serves as a reminder that the first confirmed reports of the severity of Israeli torture of Palestinians emerged in 2000, and referred to the First Intifada, 1988-1992: the period of the emergence of American "hyperpower" neoconservatism, with its impartial interest in all the stratagems of aggression and coercion.
Meanwhile, this will be interpreted as the cause of Palestinian militancy, rather than the result.
Building Jewish only settlements in Arab neighborhoods while restricting non-Jews from buying homes in Jewish neighborhoods are the result of which militancy in Jerusalem?

Is it the militancy that replaced the populations of Arabs with Jews only?

I suppose you also had the same opinions of segregated black communities as a result of criminal black tendencies?

Is it surprising that Israel is the only country in the world where the majority population supports torture?,2506,L-3316939,00.html
"This is not surprising. The transition from Israel’s first-world hustle-bustle to the donkeys, carts and idle people ...(snip)... is brutal. ..."

SAM, that same condition occurs in almost every nation of the world, except perhaps the most affluent western nation. Look at India, SAM, it's full of just such drastic transitions from affluent to poor to poverty-stricken. Look at Brazil, ...same things, drastic transitions from wealth to poverty. Ditto for Mexico. Do you point out those areas as "segregation and ethnic cleansing as a democratic policy"? Why not?

But ya' know something, SAM, ....? None of those other nations have resorted to terrorism and suicide attacks. Why not? Is that just a Muslim thing? Or perhaps just an Arab thing?

Baron Max
In which democratic country is this state policy?

None ...not even in Israel. If you think it's Israel's state policy, then please provide the necessary documentation that shows that it was enacted by the democratic Israeli government.

Baron Max
Sure. The same municipal corporation that supports building Jewish Only settlements in Arab Jerusalem also supports keeping ethnically "pure" Jewish only neighborhoods that turn away Palestinians from buying homes there. This is policy that has never been turned away in any court in Israel. The submissions to the court by Palestinians are rejected. Evidence that over 90% of building permits requested by Palestinians are turned down are not considered as evidence of segregationism. Neither is the replacement of populations seen from the demographics. All petitions made by human rights organizations to the court are rejected. In any case, when the court does decide that the IDF for example is building illegally in Bilin, there is no move to stop the building and no enforcement of the courts directive. Instead, illegal building is permitted to continue and Americans like Tristan Anderson are shot in the face with gas grenades if they protest. And still, there is no action against the illegal settlement activity [which has been ruled as illegal also by the international court]
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Sure. ...

Sorry, SAM, you didn't document it properly. So I have to assume that it's not "governmental policy". I'm guessing that it's more like personal likes and dislikes, who people want to do business with, etc. NOT government policy.

Baron Max
Its government policy when the law does nothing to stop it and when the government signs off on infrastructure for illegal settlements.
Its government policy when the law does nothing to stop it and when the government signs off on infrastructure for illegal settlements.

Show evidence, SAM, not unsubstantiated accusations and bullshit.

SAM, the same things are happening in India and Mexico, as well as most other nations of the world. And yet in those nations, as well as in Israel, it's NOT government policy!! Get it through your thick, prejudicial skull.

Baron Max
The evidence is the current state of Palestine. Unless you think Israel has no legal system
Not much to say, when you post only links and no real opinion and tell everyone else to discuss. If people wanted current events fed to em there's
Then why post in the thread? And do you need an opinion to have an opinion?
Maybe. You think the Jews will ever realise that people have a right to live on their land even if they are not Jews?

And that Jews have no automatic right to live in Palestine because they are Jews?
Is it surprising that Israel is the only country in the world where the majority population supports torture?

They've killed Jesus, for crying out loud. What can be expected of them?!

EDIT: Seriously, there is no such thing as 'democracy', even though many people talk about it with great zeal. 'Democracy' is mostly just a power word, a kind of throwing others sand in the eyes.
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Or just make Nut and Yahoo the international laughing stock.

If I were a Palestinian, of any age, I would declare an all-out war on all terrorist groups and fulfill the demand of the Jews to recognize the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish people. Furthermore, as a present on the birthday of the Jewish people, as it completes 61 years of existence, I would announce that I also respect its Declaration of Independence of May 14, 1948. I would do this on the condition that all the state's principles, to the last one, apply to the territories controlled by the Jewish state - to every last foot of territory.

If I were a Palestinian, I would wholeheartedly sign on to the article in the Declaration of Independence in which the state of the Jews promises to cooperate with the institutions and the representatives of the United Nations to fulfill the General Assembly's decision of November 29, 1947. That is the decision that declared Jerusalem, Bethlehem and its environs would be neutral and would be supervised by the UN. The area would be ruled by a council of local Jerusalemites and a foreign governor who would be appointed by the UN.

Were I a Palestinian, I would adopt the call of the Israeli Declaration of Independence to "the Arab people, residents of the State of Israel, to keep the peace and take part in building the country on the basis of full and equal citizenship and on the basis of appropriate representation in all its institutions, the temporary and permanent ones."

The Declaration of Independence says the State of Israel will strive to develop the country for the benefit of "all its residents" and will be based on principles of "liberty, justice and peace." It also promises equal social and political rights for all its citizens, without regard to religion, race or gender. This means that to enjoy equal rights, a Palestinian must be a citizen of the state of the Jewish people. It is well-known that Palestinians living beyond the Green Line, and of course the refugees in the diaspora, do not benefit from these rights. The Palestine Liberation Organization, in its declaration of independence in November 1988, declared it would accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. Were I a Palestinian, I would give up the "right of return" and demand equality of rights in the state of the Jewish people.

If I were a Palestinian, I would dismantle the fiction called the "Palestinian Authority," ending the show called "the peace process" and sending away the "contributing nations." Instead of struggling for my right to self-determination, I would learn Hebrew and translate into Arabic the slogan, "No loyalty, no citizenship." When Israel is 100 years old, if not a lot sooner, Arabic will be the dominant language in the state of the Jewish people. Netanyahu is lucky that Palestinians, as well as too many Israelis, speak the language of Ehud Barak.

Even Abbas has miraculously grown a pair:

"Recognition of Israel as the sovereign state of the Jewish people is an essential and necessary step in the historic reconciliation process between Israel and the Palestinians," the ministry said in a statement.

"The sooner the Palestinians internalize this basic and essential fact, peace between the two peoples will progress and come to fruition."

Abbas made his comments on the issue, which emerging as a main obstacle to peacemaking, in a speech earlier in the day.

"I do not accept it," the Western-backed Abbas said. "It is not my job to give a description of the state. Name yourself the Hebrew Socialist Republic - it is none of my business."

Other suggestions:

The Rabbinical Republic of Yhwh
The Hebrew Fundamentalist State
The Holocaust State of Hebrews
The Perpetual State of Being A Victim.

etc etc