Science = War

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What drives science? War, mainly. In times of peace nobody studies science cause they want to do media studies and get on TV.

"Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

So China got science during years of internal warfare. Then it's united, much more powerful than it's neighbours, develops a beauracracy and settles down to a relatively peaceful stagnation. Then someone with better science/power came along and they declined.

The Greeks - science - power - relative peace - stagnation - decline

The Romans - science - power -relative peace - stagnation - decline

The European nations - science - power -relative peace - Uh-oh!
 
"Science is interesting and if you don't agree, you can fuck off -Richard Dawkins"

On this point, Dawkins and I are in agreement.
 
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Billy Chyldyshe said:
So China got science during years of internal warfare. Then it's united, much more powerful than it's neighbours, develops a beauracracy and settles down to a relatively peaceful stagnation. Then someone with better science/power came along and they declined.QUOTE]


You can really come up with some very interesting tales can't you. I hope that one day you just might sit down and read something about the sciences inside China and when they were developed. Just one I'd like to tell you about but there are many others. Gunpowder, one of the most important scientific discoveries of all time wasn't developed during a war or any internal strife as you seem to think but was made for the peaceful purpose of FIREWORKS!. True afterwards they developed ways to use this substance to protect themselves from the invading Mongrols but it wasn't primarily invented for that purpose.

Discoveries are made with or without wars happening around them.
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Curiousity and money drive science, need boosts it. Need, like the need to survive; like in wars.
 
The principal goal of science is to discover new ways to kill other people. The second goal is to find new ways to maim or disable them. The third goal is to promote long-term pharmaceutical addiction to maximise investor returns. The fourth goal is no less dreary.
 
spuriousmonkey said:
We can never know because nature in his wisdom has not granted us the power to read minds.
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Are you sure? After reading the God Delusion, I was sure Dawkins must have acquired that capacity. :p

Btw, do you have the context in which he quoted it?
 
Of course war stimulates interest in science because the technology derived from science can deliver a strategic advantage. For a stimulus for war, though, you cannot beat religion.
 
spidergoat said:
Of course war stimulates interest in science because the technology derived from science can deliver a strategic advantage. For a stimulus for war, though, you cannot beat religion.
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Like World War 1, World War 2, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the arms trade world wide.
 
Lord Hillyer said:
The principal goal of science is to discover new ways to kill other people. The second goal is to find new ways to maim or disable them. The third goal is to promote long-term pharmaceutical addiction to maximise investor returns. The fourth goal is no less dreary.
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Name a science that has this as its principle goal.
Technology goes some way toward this, but science qua science, does not.
 
cosmictraveler said:
Billy Chyldyshe said:
So China got science during years of internal warfare. Then it's united, much more powerful than it's neighbours, develops a beauracracy and settles down to a relatively peaceful stagnation. Then someone with better science/power came along and they declined.QUOTE]


You can really come up with some very interesting tales can't you. I hope that one day you just might sit down and read something about the sciences inside China and when they were developed. Just one I'd like to tell you about but there are many others. Gunpowder, one of the most important scientific discoveries of all time wasn't developed during a war or any internal strife as you seem to think but was made for the peaceful purpose of FIREWORKS!.
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Yes I am aware of that fact.

Just as Nuclear Weapons were invented to avoid War. :rolleyes:
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S.A.M. said:
Like World War 1, World War 2, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the arms trade world wide.
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WWI and WWII were political and ideological in nature, but I would argue that much of the worldwide arms trade is fueled by religious and sectarian conflict.
 
cosmictraveler said:
Billy Chyldyshe said:
So China got science during years of internal warfare. Then it's united, much more powerful than it's neighbours, develops a beauracracy and settles down to a relatively peaceful stagnation. Then someone with better science/power came along and they declined.QUOTE]


You can really come up with some very interesting tales can't you. I hope that one day you just might sit down and read something about the sciences inside China and when they were developed. Just one I'd like to tell you about but there are many others. Gunpowder, one of the most important scientific discoveries of all time wasn't developed during a war or any internal strife as you seem to think but was made for the peaceful purpose of FIREWORKS!.
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We really coudn't survive without the odd firework display.

Its a pity Guy Fawkes Night comes round only one night a year.!
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