Science or god?

Tyler,

And so it makes sense then that people, who couldn't explain the universe, but wanted to, did so by the only means they could - god.
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The characteristics they pointed about God where the characteristics of the Truth. The only real difference between Science and Religion is that Science builds up knowledge in the direction of the Truth and Religion stabilishes what's Truth and from that develops the understanding of the world.

Science:
Knowledge--->Truth

Religion:
Truth---------->Knowledge

Hevene,

Thanks. :)

Love,
Nelson
 
Nelson:

No. Science is a way of life, a way of thinking....a journey. Science is about the search for truth, and the attempt to verify that what we have learned is truth.

Science is a journey, religion is a (alleged) end.
 
"Your signature lines:
"I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld..."
Pretty sure that was Betrand Russell."

Thanks goofyfish, the circle is compleate :)

"How would you describe the Universe 5000 years ago without scientific language?"

You are right ofcourse TruthSeeker, people 5000 years ago didn´t even know sciene, they didn´t know just how much technology could help us and they thought that the world would probaply stay the same until the end of the world. They thought that everything would have been discovered already.
But now that we know, that there´s still much to learn and a lot that we don´t know... which should we put our faith? In religions that rely on faith and legends to tell us the truth? Or sciene which tries to find the truth with modern means?
Both choises have theyr flaws.

"Science is a journey, religion is a (alleged) end."

Perhaps so Xev, altough religions themselves have made quite a journeys themselves. It´s amazing when how people can change theyr point of view, saying that THIS IS THE TRUTH!!! and then few years later say, ok, I was wrong... but THIS is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!! :)

Some people stay loyal to one thing for theyr whole life... some people go to a journey and change theyr point of view many times in theyr life.
Sticking loyal to one thing might ofcourse seem that you have found the absolute truth while changing your point of view many times might seem that you are uncertain, but which teaches more? :confused:
 
<i>The only real difference between Science and Religion is that Science builds up knowledge in the direction of the Truth and Religion stabilishes what's Truth and from that develops the understanding of the world.</i>

Science is self correcting. (Mostly,) religion is dogmatic. Religion has no means by which to develop a better understanding of the world, since it already claims to have all the answers.
 
Yang´s_Matrix,

Not exactly what I meant. I meant that to describe the future, they had to use their present knowledge. Another thing, they had prophecies so they knew the future...

James R,

Religion knows the Truth and FROM the Truth, explains everything. The characteristics of Truth are easy to find out and I'll explain it later, in another thread...
Science goes from observation and analizis to the Truth. Religion comes from a stabilized Truth. That's all...

Love,
Nelson
 
Sorry Zion, been busy and too lazy to get into this site :eek:

But now I´m back. :cool:

"Science is self correcting. (Mostly,) religion is dogmatic."

I agree with James R, sciene practises self-critisism which makes it more open and less subjective... but also harder to believe in... when it´s so cold.

It´s perhaps easier to believe in religion which is more subjective, gives hope etc.
 
I read this sometime ago, that a research had been done which showed that the people believes in god has a longer lifespan then the people only believe in science (about 7 years I think). May be believe in god have some effect on the human body?
 
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Tyler,
Christianism is a Religion based on Love and virtues...
Like all the others...
So, you can choose other, if you want...
Click to expand...

*ahem*

Christianity is a bizarre cannibal cult based upon a human sacrifice.

The fact that it is tolerated and even encouraged is nothing more than a sign of how far humanity has to go.
 
Northwind,

Sorry, but you are just one more person that doesn't understand what's written...

Love,
Nelson
 
As pointed out god is different from religion. Whether god exists and whether religion usually results in good are two entirely separate discussions.

Religion has many interesting perspectives on what it takes to make a good society. Nobody's gotten the recipe right yet, but there are some good ingredients in there. I think the most important aspect of any religion is personal views. Most protestant religions allow personal interpretation of the bible. It makes mass manipulation more difficult.

Whether god exists depends primarily on your definition of god. So far as I can tell there are two reasonable general definitions of god(s) - the unmoved mover and the underlying order of the universe. I'm not sure I believe there was an unmoved mover, but there sure as hell is an underlying order to the universe which is what scientists study. The exact details of any religion may or may not fit with science, but the core of what makes something a religious system need not conflict in my opinion.

Nobody I know of has a complete explanation of the something from nothing or something forever how it all began situation.

Regarding thermodynamics and the completely disordered state that closed systems move towards there are some interesting properties. Energy and matter are equally spread throughout space. This sounds somewhat ordered to me. It just depends on what was termed as order. In information theory maximal information and maximal randomness are the same thing. Definitions are subtle in these studies and grossly simple statements do not capture the true nature of what is understood.

Science is lead by belief. Only math involves proof and not statistical statements. We have no scientific measurements outside a tiny fraction of the universe. Interpret science any way you like and you still have very little solid truth and fact to work with. I still think it's the best process we have for understanding the world around us.

The thing is with so much we don't understand, belief is still more important in shaping our views of the world around us since science isn't enough on its own ...
 
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Northwind,

Sorry, but you are just one more person that doesn't understand what's written...

Love,
Nelson
Click to expand...

Excuse me, crapflap? Do christians not celebrate the nailing to a tree of the guy they are supposed to regard as saviour? Is the celebration of his nailing up not the highest, holiest holiday they have? Do they, or do they not have rites in which they ritualistic eat the body and drink the blood of this same alleged saviour? Do they not keep morbid statuary of this saviour nailed up, bleeding and dying? Did this saviour not say (supposedly) to his closest disciples, "this is my body, eat me" (paraphrased)?

Sounds like you are the one who does not understand what is written.
 
Northwind,
Lot's of people worship martyrs and those who have sacrificed for others. The crucifixion of Jesus is a symbolic reminder of that.

As far as the act of communion it is clearly intended to be metaphorical as well. Even at the original supper they never ate his actual body. My personal interpretation has always been it was symbolic of his willingness to try and fulfill our human desires with his very essence. I'm not sure if that's what most believe.

There's no need to be nasty even if you don't believe in Christianity. Personally I would never limit my beliefs to Christian ones, but forgiveness, tolerance, the importance of love and many other core tenets are of a lot of importance in having a healthy society even if you don't believe in god at all.
 
Try asking a Catholic how "metaphorical" the communion is. Catholics believe that the wafer and wine literally become the flesh and blood of Jesus. Not figuratively, not symbolically, but REALLY. They are ritual cannibals.

As for tolerance, some things should not be tolerated. Are you tolerant of murder? Hatred? Rampant pedophilia? Do you support the spread of ignorance? Do you think we should go back to having slaves? How about the holocaust and Nazism? You tolerate that too?

Christianity is an obscenity. No decent and intelligent person should support it or tolerate it.
 
Northwind,

Excuse me, crapflap? Do christians not celebrate the nailing to a tree of the guy they are supposed to regard as saviour? Is the celebration of his nailing up not the highest, holiest holiday they have? Do they, or do they not have rites in which they ritualistic eat the body and drink the blood of this same alleged saviour? Do they not keep morbid statuary of this saviour nailed up, bleeding and dying? Did this saviour not say (supposedly) to his closest disciples, "this is my body, eat me" (paraphrased)?
Click to expand...

As I said before... it's all about INTERPRETATION...

The body of Christ is actually the church.
The blood of Christ is actually his ideas.

Just change the words and you'll see it perfectly...

Try asking a Catholic how "metaphorical" the communion is. Catholics believe that the wafer and wine literally become the flesh and blood of Jesus. Not figuratively, not symbolically, but REALLY. They are ritual cannibals.
Click to expand...

Honestly... I don't know the Catholics, but in my Gospel church is not like this. Besides that, I don't really think this is true...

As for tolerance, some things should not be tolerated. Are you tolerant of murder? Hatred? Rampant pedophilia? Do you support the spread of ignorance? Do you think we should go back to having slaves? How about the holocaust and Nazism? You tolerate that too?
Click to expand...

Christianism is based on Unconditional Love. This is the solution for all problems of the world...

Christianity is an obscenity. No decent and intelligent person should support it or tolerate it.
Click to expand...

"Love you enemies"

How can this be obscene?


scilosopher,

There's no need to be nasty even if you don't believe in Christianity. Personally I would never limit my beliefs to Christian ones, but forgiveness, tolerance, the importance of love and many other core tenets are of a lot of importance in having a healthy society even if you don't believe in god at all.
Click to expand...

Thank God there are people like you!! :)
Yes... I agree... :)

Can you take a look in my thread "I'm not alone..."? I'm being vigorously attacked there... :(

Love,
Nelson
 
Northwind,
I never said anything about tolerance. I agree there are certain things people shouldn't be tolerant of. Personally I have trouble tolerating people who over generalize and rabidly insult people. You seem stricken to massive over generalization and unnecessary rudeness.

My parents are both decent and intelligent and they support Christianity. My guess is that people practicing every religion that exists have done abominable things. That does not mean that the teachings of the religion are at fault even if the machinery of that religion does soil it's image. Nazi scientists did some pretty disgusting stuff too. If there are any groups that have really kept there hands clean throughout history I would be quite interested to hear about them.

If you don't mind my asking? What happened that makes you hate christianity so?

Truthseeker,
Thanks. What forum is that thread on, I can certainly give my opinion if you like.
 
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