Science or god?

Being able to admit that they were wrong, of course...
But that's not my case because I've experienced what I've been telling you around here...

Love,
Nelson
 
Science & God

I hear "Believers" ask the question about the "faith in Science" or "Belief in Science". They don't understand that Science is not a belief or faith. These questions are from a religious bias and perspective. The Laws of Physics are absolute fact, pure and simple. Science has a solid base of proven Laws, only when the knowledge base is expanding do you get into theories and holes in proven knowledge. Science is the persuit of absolute knowledge. To reach this, theories have to be proven and repeatable by third parties. The principles of evolution are fact. They can be demonstrated in the laboratory with creatures that have short life-spans, by example with fossil evidence and through computer simulation (that mirrors known evidence). It's the nature of the persuit of knowledge that for every question that science answers, a new one is created.

Absolute knowledge is universal. A true religion or god would be universal to all human beings and not segregated to a single culture or ethnic group. You cannot send people to hell for not believing in Jesus if they lived a life without having heard of him in the first place. All religion as an explanation of the creation of the universe, an afterlife or other understanding of the universe in general, is false. What religion does, is provide a system of laws for behavior and culture. A system that promotes the long-term survival of a group or culture.

The meaning of life is Procreation. How it is applied is very complex and subject to the different techniques used in various cultures.

In America we once had "Christian Values". Then it was "Judaic/Christian Values". Today it is "Family Values". In all human cultures that are civilized, it is recognized that a "family" is the basic organized structure for human procreation. It is a universal principle for human behavior that will ensure the continued procreation of humanity. That is the meaning of life and the purpose of religion. It has nothing to do with the workings of the universe. Only Science can provide those answers.
 
anim8er,

First, welcome to sciforums! :)

Absolute knowledge is universal. A true religion or god would be universal to all human beings and not segregated to a single culture or ethnic group. You cannot send people to hell for not believing in Jesus if they lived a life without having heard of him in the first place. All religion as an explanation of the creation of the universe, an afterlife or other understanding of the universe in general, is false. What religion does, is provide a system of laws for behavior and culture. A system that promotes the long-term survival of a group or culture.
Click to expand...

Yes... but and if all Religions talk about the same God but explains in a different way, through a different perspective? ;)

In America we once had "Christian Values". Then it was "Judaic/Christian Values". Today it is "Family Values". In all human cultures that are civilized, it is recognized that a "family" is the basic organized structure for human procreation. It is a universal principle for human behavior that will ensure the continued procreation of humanity. That is the meaning of life and the purpose of religion. It has nothing to do with the workings of the universe. Only Science can provide those answers.
Click to expand...

Again. And if Religions are talking about the same God? Another thing to coincider... how would you explain something that we knoe today 2000 ago? You had to describe it using your background, isn't it? For instance, most of Religions describe "clouds". What would be "clouds". UFOs, perhaps...
And Nostradamus describing the planes that crashed in the WTC as "birds"...? And the WTC itself as "Twins"? Do you see my point here.

I want to make clear that I want a healthy discussion here. ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
The Cross and the Crucible.

First of all, all religions do not all talk about a single God as in Christianity, Judiaism and Islam. So, diluting any religion to fit a "universal religion" model does not work.

I do not know what Nostradamus has or has not said. Unless I can read the actual text for myself, everything I would hear about his "prophecies" is someone else's interpretation. I do remember seeing a television show years ago about Nostradamus and they presented a scenerio where the world watched an attack on New York City. It was presented as an attack by ICBM with a nuclear warhead and it took two missles to get the job done. Is this the story you are refering to?

Having been raised in a christian home. I'm aware of biblical prophecies that have come true. My dad, who studied to be a Pastor, had a book written in the early 1900's, before airplanes, called the Dispensational Truth. It predicted the reemergence of the state of Israel, this was 20-30 years before it happened. When I was a teenager, in the '70s, I remember one dispensational preacher say that they found some of these prophesies hard to fathom because it required the fall of the Soviet Union in order to come true. They did not think this would happen for atleast another 50 years from that time, when in fact it happened in less than 20 years. Sure, all of this stuff is interesting. But Jules Verne predicted the exploration of the moon 70+ years before it happened. Does this make him a prophet? If you are vague enough, almost anything can be read into a prophecy what they want in hind sight.
 
Last edited:
anim8er,

First of all, all religions do not all talk about a single God as in Christianity, Judiaism and Islam. So, diluting any religion to fit a "universal religion" model does not work.
Click to expand...

And if Politheist Religions talks about different perspectives of onje God. For example, why Zeus in the Greek Mithology is called the "God of Gods"? Is there any God above God? No. God is supposed to be the hightest deity. So why "God of Gods". Simple: because all other Gods are different perspectives from the same. It's hard to imagine, but it makes sense. ;)

I do remember seeing a television show years ago about Nostradamus and they presented a scenerio where the world watched an attack on New York City.It was presented as an attack by ICBM with a nuclear warhead and it took two missles to get the job done. Is this the story you are refering to?
Click to expand...

Do you read the news? I'm talking about WTC and the planes that crashed! Two planes... two missiles... that's interesting... :)
The interpretation in this TV show was wrong. The true thing already happened in the WTC...

But Jules Verne predicted the exploration of the moon 70+ years before it happened. Does this make him a prophet? If you are vague enough, almost anything can be read into a prophecy what they want in hind sight.
Click to expand...

It depends how many times you get it right...
I already made some prophecies. The WTC was one of the last ones... One was that someone in my family would die when I would come back home from holiday. My grandma died about 2 or 3 months after I came back from my holiday... I've done, or received, or whatever, the prophecy about 2 years before.

Btw... good imagination is allways healthy... mainly when it gives people ideas, like submarine and space traveling, all based in old Sci-fi stuff. ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
I was 7/8 on my post-Sept 11th predictions. And the eigth has until next september 11th to evolve (that is, a war on Iraq).

I'm no prophet. I just follow logical thought and figure out what will happen.

Truthseeker how can you be christian and talk the way you do? That theory has been around for countless years (I believe I first saw it in a poem, The Elephant). The fact is if you believe in the teachings of the Bible you can not believe that theory. That, or you believe God is a very, very horrible creature that changed his teachings many times throughout the years. And decided to only give it to certain peoples.

anim8tor said that it is a cruel attitude to punish those who have never even heard of Christ for sending them to hell (as, by christian belief they would, as they never accept Christ into their soul). I say this; if Christ himself came to Earth and proved Christianity as right, I would still rather go to hell than a heaven run by a lord like that.
 
Tyler...

What I've told you in the other thread...?
I'll remind you.

Christ is Love.

Those who have Love in their Heart already accepted Christ in their Hearts!!! For Christ is Love!!!!
If you accept Love in your Heart, you accept Christ too and you go to the Heavens. You actualy live a life much better.
That's what I'm telling you! That Love is not just a chemical reaction, it is more important then that! I don't know the scientifical implications, but I know pretty well the Religious, Spiritual and Pscychological ones.

I believe in the Bible. And I beleive that both the theory and the Bible are right. Now that you agree that I have some knowledge on the subject, please, listen to me closer...

Love,
Nelson
 
I've posted my knowledge of Biblical atrocities far too many times to do it again - I'll just link to the damn things:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty.html

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/intolerance.html

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/injustices.html

Happy reading.

And, fucking hell, if God knew enough to predict the September 11 attacks, he could have given us a little 'heads up' on them. If God is omnipotent, he is either sadistic or indifferent.

Tyler:

anim8tor said that it is a cruel attitude to punish those who have never even heard of Christ for sending them to hell (as, by christian belief they would, as they never accept Christ into their soul). I say this; if Christ himself came to Earth and proved Christianity as right, I would still rather go to hell than a heaven run by a lord like that.
Click to expand...

Damn right! And, Nelson, I don't think you can argue with John 3:18 or Matthew 25:46 and 25:41 and Mark 4:11-12.

Sorry, your own Bible disagrees.
 
Xev,

And, fucking hell, if God knew enough to predict the September 11 attacks, he could have given us a little 'heads up' on them. If God is omnipotent, he is either sadistic or indifferent.
Click to expand...

He told me. But I couldn't do nothing. Those who can do don't want even to listen to Him... :(

Damn right! And, Nelson, I don't think you can argue with John 3:18 or Matthew 25:46 and 25:41 and Mark 4:11-12.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use those. I use my own interpretation to prove the Bible right. I already explained it in the post above...

I wonder about those things in the Bible. You can be sure tomorrow I'll ask my pastor to look at this site and give me an explanation. ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
Why choose christ? Why not another religion?
How do you choose one then?

If the Elephant theory is right, why choose a religion?

You know, in Toronto right now there's a serious battle going on because the Catholic church refuses to let a boy take his boyfriend to their prom.

Woohoo, yay christianity.
 
The only true plus I can see for religion now adays is Jesus Christ Superstar.

Which I happen to be watching right now.
 
Ha! The Catholic Church is one to talk...bloody hypocrites, prohibiting normal sexual expression while they have the whole molestation scandal going on.

Tyler: Reminds me of my favorite George Carlin quote:

"The only good thing to come out of religion was the music"
 
TruthSeeker: It depends how many times you get it right...
Click to expand...
Exactly, how many times had I heard this and that today is gonna be the end of the world? And, it never happened.
I reckon, a prophecy is something that is likely to happen, but it i all within the control of our hands. It is similar to our destiny, as I mensioned in one of my other posts using seeds for example, it's destiny is to become plants according to its genes, but a large percentage gets eaten or die, so even destiny is a vague idea, it all depends what happens, so you can exactly predict what is gonna happen, it's just more likely to happen, get what I mean? (sorry bad expressions)

There are many different religions. It's just funny that each different God looks different. From each place where the religion originate, the God often looks like the people. I think, it it more likely for the God to exist as a symbol or explainations for what the people don't understand at the time. If the God is universal, shouldn't they all look similar, instead with all the variations?

Religion is there to give people support but it should not be taken one hundred percent, after all, science it going to save you from diseases. What did the bible say? Sickness is a sin? How is that gonna help?
 
Tyler,

Why choose christ? Why not another religion?
How do you choose one then?
Click to expand...

Christianism is a Religion based on Love and virtues...
Like all the others...
So, you can choose other, if you want...

If the Elephant theory is right, why choose a religion?
Click to expand...
I don't know this theory... can't talk about it...

You know, in Toronto right now there's a serious battle going on because the Catholic church refuses to let a boy take his boyfriend to their prom.
Click to expand...

That's a hard issue...

Xev,

Ha! The Catholic Church is one to talk...bloody hypocrites, prohibiting normal sexual expression while they have the whole molestation scandal going on.
Click to expand...

You are right. The nowdays church is decadent. They are not religious... they just want money and power as most of people in this world... :(
In the times of Christ it was already like that... you can read it in the Bible. Jesus didn't like it though... and still don't like the way church is going...

Hevene,

There are many different religions. It's just funny that each different God looks different. From each place where the religion originate, the God often looks like the people. I think, it it more likely for the God to exist as a symbol or explainations for what the people don't understand at the time. If the God is universal, shouldn't they all look similar, instead with all the variations?
Click to expand...

They are all the same... but they use different "languages" to pass the message. For example, how would you describe an UFO 2000 years ago? Someone could say a cloud. Other could say a sausage. There is a huge difference between a cloud and a sausage isn't it? But in this example they are describing the same thing! People look to things with different perspectives and describe them in different manners. Words are nothing in Religion if you can't interpret them properly. How to make it properly? By adding the History and Cultural background of the civilization that made it. ;)

Religion is there to give people support but it should not be taken one hundred percent, after all, science it going to save you from diseases. What did the bible say? Sickness is a sin? How is that gonna help?
Click to expand...

The Bible don't say that sickness is sin. Sickness in the Bible is a result of a sin. And actually, the Bible promise divinal health for those who have faith. And to have faith you have to have a pure Heart, what make you lovely to other people... :)

Where did you find that picture...?

Love,
Nelson
 
I personally think that sciene and religion can exist together, altough there is a heavy friction between them. If religions would be open minded and not too stiff, they could simply try to answer into lifes fundamental questions, while sciene would try to explain that how does the universe work.

But today, religions have perhaps too much history behind them, they have sometimes tried to replace sciene with theyr own divine theories which continue to exist even today.

I hope that time will set things right, religion should provide people (who are willing to believe) with purpose of life, happiness, motivation and strenght when it is most needed, while sciene should try to map the complex processes of universe.
 
Hi there, Yang -

Your signature lines:
"I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld..."
Pretty sure that was Betrand Russell.

Peace.
 
Yang´s_Matrix,

I hope that time will set things right, religion should provide people (who are willing to believe)with purpose of life, happiness, motivation and strenght when it is most needed, while sciene should try to map the complex processes of universe.
Click to expand...

How woyld you describe the Universe 5000 years ago without scientific language? ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
And so it makes sense then that people, who couldn't explain the universe, but wanted to, did so by the only means they could - god.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top