Seattle
Valued Senior Member
How many kids die in the US falling out of trees, off roofs and in the water and in traffic. "Let's save the kids".
School Shooting in Minneapolis
- Thread starter ThazzarBaal
- Start date
Trees, roofs and water serve more purposes than simply killing people.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Those are just excuses. Why don't you care about the kids? Even saving one kid is worth it. Guns are meant to save one life. Why do you care more about trees than kids and life itself? The kids are our future. Do you not care about our future?
How exactly are guns "meant to save one life"?
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
When a gun is pointed at you, using your gun is designed to save your life. Don't you care about saving your life and that of your kids? There was a prominent attorney in Seattle years ago with a wife and 3 kids. On Christmas Eve some meth head got into his house and killed all five.
Don't you think he might have wanted to have a gun at that point, regardless of what his prior viewpoint on guns was? That might be a different decision in a country with few guns, put in the US with 450 million guns it's a different equation, don't you think?
The number of guns or the number of people with guns does nothing to change the fact that the average person just isn't terribly proficient when it comes to protecting themselves or protecting others with a gun. For that matter, even the so-called "professionals", i.e., cops aren't terribly good at it either.
And proficiency that comes with training and practicing at gun ranges and the like doesn't seem to improve their odds in any substantive, measurable way. Such may make cops somewhat better at shooting people, but it does little for average citizens. The reasons for this are obvious, I think, and don't really need to be stated, but something something to do with acting under extreme duress. Not to mention the fact that one's gun needs to be accessible and loaded at all times for it to be of any value in such situations. Do you think it's a good idea for a person with children to keep a loaded gun lying around at all times?
Fall from a height - 140 deaths a year. Response - "we should put up railings around high walkways and balconies, and have warnings wherever families and kids are so that doesn't happen."
Pedestrians - 700 a year. Response - "we should put up crossing signs, have crossing guards, pass laws about not passing school buses, and make jaywalking illegal. Put in ten million dollar overpasses so kids don't have to cross the street."
Drowning - 900 a year. Response - "we should have lifeguards at all public pools, have state and local lifeguard and water safety ratings, mandate fences around private pools and put warning signs on buckets. And you should go to jail if there are kids on your boat without life jackets!"
Guns - 6000 a year. Response - "nothing else can be done. Kids die anyway falling off things. You can't punish the majority!"
And if he had had a gun in the house, they would have been even more likely to all have been killed by a gun. From the NIH before Trump fired all the scientists there: "Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."
Want your kids to die by gunfire? Get a gun. Want to protect your kids? Get an alarm and a trained guard dog.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I think a parent can make that decision and how to deal with it. There are parents, kids and 450 million guns in the US and decisions have to be made. 150 kids a year in the US die from accidental firearm accidents and 900 kids drown every year. Just keep kids out of the water.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Yet, all those things do happen.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Yet, they did die.
Absolutely. In 2009 a child was killed by the exploding damper in an office chair. And if you think dead kids is a good thing (population reduction!) then nothing needs to change. If you DO care about reducing the number of dead kids, you should target the #1 killer of kids - which is guns. If, instead, you insist that our #1 priority must be exploding office chairs, then you don't care about kids dying. You care about keeping your access to guns easy.
Yes. One family died due to not having a gun. Thousands more died due to having guns. Seems like a pretty simple equation.
But since you like anecdotes:
RIVERTON, Utah (KUTV) — A father shot and killed his 18-year-old son while handing a handgun. . . . Police said the shooting was "accidental," and that the father is cooperating with the investigation.
DEKALB, Ga. — A mother is facing charges after a 5-year-old boy died from a single gunshot fired by his brother inside an apartment, according to warrants. . . .According to arrest warrants, Bennett left a loaded gun in a black purse inside her nightstand in her bedroom.
CHICAGO - A woman is in custody in connection with the death of her 5-year-old brother, who was fatally shot Sunday on Chicago’s South Side, police said. . . . Bell left a loaded 9 mm Glock in her purse and hid the bag under a pile of toys and clothing in her brother’s room while she took a shower. Police said the child found the gun and shot himself in the head.
COLUMBUS, Ohio - Man fatally shoots 16-year-old daughter after mistaking her for home intruder . . . The shooting call came in around 4:28 a.m. to the 5400 block of Piper Bend Drive, according to police.
Do you think those families are glad they had guns in the house?
In re functional difference, we discussed this↗ a few years ago; the underlying article was literally titled, "The AR-15 Was Built for Slaughter in War Zones"↱.
About a Girl
And, there it is:
It was about a girl. Imagine that: "Let's see how much you love me after I complete my mission!"
____________________
Notes:
Crane, Emily. "Minneapolis school shooter's 'furry' girlfriend ID'd after killer described past relationship as 'root of my suffering'". New York Post. 4 September 2025. NYPost.com. 5 September 2025. https://nypost.com/2025/09/04/us-news/minneapolis-shooter-robin-westmans-furry-girlfriend-idd/
"I am NOT spending my life with a 'blue haired and pronouns' having assbitch. You are lucky I have bigger plans than you."
And, there it is:
In the series of documents linked to Westman after the shooting, Westman had repeatedly referred to a person named "Aby" and "Abbey" — calling them a "catalyst" for his deranged behavior and the "root of my suffering."
The smiling couple was pictured selling items at a craft event, dressing up for a local Renaissance fair and visiting an aquarium together.
It wasn't exactly clear when they ended things. However, Westman's father told investigators after the shooting that his son recently "broke up with a significant and/or romantic partner."
Westman penned a slew of unhinged entries before the shooting, saying he wished he'd never met his ex.
"Aby is such a baby. I should have never started dating them," Westman wrote.
"I am NOT spending my life with a 'blue hair and pronouns' having a—b—h. You are lucky I have bigger plans than you," the gunman said in another.
(Crane↱)
The smiling couple was pictured selling items at a craft event, dressing up for a local Renaissance fair and visiting an aquarium together.
It wasn't exactly clear when they ended things. However, Westman's father told investigators after the shooting that his son recently "broke up with a significant and/or romantic partner."
Westman penned a slew of unhinged entries before the shooting, saying he wished he'd never met his ex.
"Aby is such a baby. I should have never started dating them," Westman wrote.
"I am NOT spending my life with a 'blue hair and pronouns' having a—b—h. You are lucky I have bigger plans than you," the gunman said in another.
(Crane↱)
It was about a girl. Imagine that: "Let's see how much you love me after I complete my mission!"
____________________
Notes:
Crane, Emily. "Minneapolis school shooter's 'furry' girlfriend ID'd after killer described past relationship as 'root of my suffering'". New York Post. 4 September 2025. NYPost.com. 5 September 2025. https://nypost.com/2025/09/04/us-news/minneapolis-shooter-robin-westmans-furry-girlfriend-idd/
Wizard of Whatever
Registered Senior Member
Do you blame stabbings on the knife or beatings on the stick. If not, why blame shootings on the gun.
No one "blames" guns--guns do not have agency. Rather, they point out that many varieties of guns serve but one purpose: they are used for killing people. Knives and sticks have plenty of other applications.
Seriously, use your fucking brain here--or stop trolling. Whichever the case may be.
Wizard of Whatever
Registered Senior Member
Guns are useful for hunting (getting food), target practice and Self-Defense. If I could I would rather have a gun and not need it, than not have one and need it.
I am just putting forth my own points of view. If you don't like them ignore me.
"It's not the gun! It's the person!"
"So let's license the person."
"No, it's not normal people, it's mentally ill people!"
"So let's test people before we give them guns."
"No, you are 'punishing the majority!' Only apply that to really mentally ill people!"
"So let's fund mental health programs so we can find and treat them."
"That's SOCIALISM! Guns are just tools, like cars! Stop attacking them."
"So let's treat them like cars. Register them, insure them etc."
"It's not the gun, it's the person!"
And repeat, and repeat, as thousands of kids die every year.
And I am just putting forth where you present straw men arguments and are simply demonstrably wrong. Deal with it.
If you wanna argue that guns are effective for self-defense, or in defense of others, present some substantive data. Otherwise, expect people to call out your bullshit, ignorance and lies.
Wizard of Whatever
Registered Senior Member
It's time for me to ignore one so blind he cannot see.