SAM Behavior

[CheskiChips]

Starts thread asking if a well known Jew is an anti-semite. Asks irrelevant questions related to the source material.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=96421

Doesn't listen to or read source material, but makes bogus claim regarding its contents.
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2375111&postcount=4

Starts an intentionally inflammatory thread on the Holocaust, not shockingly on Yom Kippur. Out of this thread I could post a whole slew of questionable assertions which are illegal in numerous countries.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=96403
ie...
(questions historical sources of holocaust)
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2375093&postcount=47
(compares concentration camps to GITMO and starvation was only incidental)
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2374542&postcount=37

Nearly 1/3rd to half of her posts go to condemnation of Jews or Israelis.

She and others (Namely pjdude and strawdog) have made the gross claim that the Holocaust is equivalent to the current palestine/israel divide. A claim that should at least have a formal debate to decide whether or not it's a direct violation of honesty standards.



I know Moderators are watching her, so there's little use in my thread other than conveying that her behavior is unchanged post-ban.

 

[pjdude1219]

honesty standards you mean like claiming people have said things they didn't. I have never equated the holocaust to the Israel/palestine conflict. I have said their are parallels between some of the nazis actions and some of Israel's actions.. A full on troll is what you are.

 

[Tiassa]

Just let this one pass.

Let this one pass, PJ. As Cheski noted, moderators are watching the situation. I have yet to review the full complaint, but the first one noted is clearly fallacious. I am currently—simultaneously, in fact—addressing the issue with my fellows.

 

[pjdude1219]

Let this one pass, PJ. As Cheski noted, moderators are watching the situation. I have yet to review the full complaint, but the first one noted is clearly fallacious. I am currently—simultaneously, in fact—addressing the issue with my fellows.

don't worry i'll be a good boy. and any who i'm leaving disney world soon anyway so if i'm not able too post i can't get my self into to much trouble

 

[CheskiChips]

If my claim is fallacious, either everyone is ignorant of Netanyahu's claim...or I am. But I listened to his speech numerous times. Netanyahu never even claimed the Goldstone report was inaccurate...he claimed it should have never existed.

 

[draqon]

and CheskiChips is interested in all of these of course for the sake of heavenly justice and the stability of Sciforums...nothing to do with CheskiChips being Jewish and Sam being Muslim...oh def. not. right?

Oh Cheski is defending Netanyahu out of the good heart and spirit, no nationalistic imposed choices here, especially defending Netanyahu's peace calls for action towards Iran...no war mockery here whatsoever.

 

[Tiassa]

Mod Hat - Update

Mod Hat — Update

People can respond as much as they want, I suppose. But Cheski will not be around to answer for a few days according to issues arising in another thread.

I would remind people to answer the issues, though, if they intend to answer at all. In the first place, those are the important considerations. To the second, moderators and the administration are aware of personal/political issues involved with this complaint. And to yet a third, it's just not nice to pile on when he's not here to answer you.

Thank you.

 

[WillNever]

honesty standards you mean like claiming people have said things they didn't. I have never equated the holocaust to the Israel/palestine conflict. I have said their are parallels between some of the nazis actions and some of Israel's actions.. A full on troll is what you are.

So... why is she so fixated on Jews and Palestinians still? No one seems to want to explain that and she made a post just a few days ago stating that her intention here is to reverse discriminate against white people and especially Jews, in order to have revenge for the zealous Muslims who are mistreated here, or some such.

Does that sound like a noble intention to you..? I don't think it is. Now, it is easy enough to ignore when she isolates her crappola to her own threads, but I do draw the line when she starts hijacking OTHER people's topics, as she surely did in MacGyver's thread.

 

[fedr808]

and CheskiChips is interested in all of these of course for the sake of heavenly justice and the stability of Sciforums...nothing to do with CheskiChips being Jewish and Sam being Muslim...oh def. not. right?

Oh Cheski is defending Netanyahu out of the good heart and spirit, no nationalistic imposed choices here, especially defending Netanyahu's peace calls for action towards Iran...no war mockery here whatsoever.

Draqon your not much better, your claiming that the Israelis hijacked a ship to unload missiles in Iran was bullshit.

First off none of the passengers were Jewish, or Israeli, and second, the ship was in the arctic not the mediteranean.

 

[Syzygys]

usual trite about Sam

Thank you Sir, thank you! This site hasn't had a thread about Sam for about a week and I was having withdrawal symptoms.

But now that you started this thread, finally you gave back the meaning to our lifes, which is discussing Sam's online activites.

Thank you again and all the gods bless you!

P.S.: Is it too early for the Muslim titties?

 

[EntropyAlwaysWins]

Thank you Sir, thank you! This site hasn't had a thread about Sam for about a week and I was having withdrawal symptoms.

But now that you started this thread, finally you gave back the meaning to our lifes, which is discussing Sam's online activites.

Thank you again and all the gods bless you!

P.S.: Is it too early for the Muslim titties?

ever so slightly....

 

[Gustav]

both Syzygys and EntropyAlwaysWins come here openly declaring their intention to troll
ban them and do not allow them to return

 

[Tiassa]

Note for Gustav

We had a member actually show up here and, in their first post, declare their intention to pick a fight. For various reasons I would actually be embarrassed to publicly accuse, we did nothing. The member has pretty much lived up to that contentious entry for the duration, and we generally do nothing about it.

However, I will go so far as to say that whoever posts the Muslim titties in this thread, I will make a sincere effort to have them removed from this community permanently.

Don't get me wrong, I probably won't win that one, but, you know, it wouldn't be boring.

 

[Gustav]

Starts thread asking if a well known Jew is an anti-semite. Asks irrelevant questions related to the source material.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=96421

ignores context and cannot comprehend the rhetoric

Doesn't listen to or read source material, but makes bogus claim regarding its contents.
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2375111&postcount=4

heh, cheski's response to the op

No, but this thread should be locked.

Had you listened to the speech I posted, you wouldn't hold this view...because you would know that Netanyahu called for none of the above.

sam never asserted anything of the sort. go back and read

Starts an intentionally inflammatory thread on the Holocaust, not shockingly on Yom Kippur. Out of this thread I could post a whole slew of questionable assertions which are illegal in numerous countries.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=96403
ie...
(questions historical sources of holocaust)
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2375093&postcount=47
(compares concentration camps to GITMO and starvation was only incidental)
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2374542&postcount=37

there are no assertions in the op, just questions. as cheski equates this with denial so does james. look how james disingenuously makes that point....

SAM:

You might want to try:

DENYING HISTORY: WHO SAYS THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED
AND WHY DO THEY SAY IT?
by Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman
University of California Press

This will answer all of the questions above, and contains references to many other sources you can then follow up yourself.

there is no denial on sam's part but james trollishly make it seem the case by giving that particular recommendation

bad james
bad! bad!

Nearly 1/3rd to half of her posts go to condemnation of Jews or Israelis.

members should be free to post in their personal areas of interest

She and others (Namely pjdude and strawdog) have made the gross claim that the Holocaust is equivalent to the current palestine/israel divide. A claim that should at least have a formal debate to decide whether or not it's a direct violation of honesty standards.

cite the claim and take it to fd. whats stopping you?

I know Moderators are watching her, so there's little use in my thread other than conveying that her behavior is unchanged post-ban.

yup
still tho, nothing like a frivolous complaint to stir up the braindead amongst the mod team

 

[Gustav]

perhaps an illustration of sam's mindset

Will the laws stop the hatred from spreading though?

Or will it just drive it underground to fester quietly and dangerously?


That is another topic altogether. Just because you are being ignored in the AIDS topic, does not mean you can spread it to other threads. You are the only one applying a comparison in an attempt to get people to pay attention to you in that thread and on that topic.

The laws cannot stop crime or hate only keep it in check.

People will hate/commit crime regardless, why make it open season?

Much as I prefer free speech, I can see why they have these laws especially in those places.

I think for me, personally, I'd rather know what they were hating and why. I would rather it be out in the open then hidden. In short, I'd rather they be in a position where they can be monitored and watched.

No laws can keep hatred in check. All laws banning beliefs like those who believe the holocaust was a hoax, will only drive them underground, where they cannot be monitored or watched. I would rather see what they were doing, then have laws that attempt to push them underground and have no idea what they were doing. Public dialogue is better on issues such as this.

In some cases yes, but sometimes, the consequences can be unfortunate and people can misuse the platform for propaganda and exploitation. This was what originally happened in Germany. All that free speech did was to polarise people against the Jews for no comprehensible reason.

People hear something often enough, they tend to accept it as true.

I guess one might want to weigh the advantages against the disadvantages and decide which one is more acceptable.

You can also have the opposite effect by making the denial of the holocaust illegal. People when hearing that to question any facts or to deny any of it is illegal can start to ask why it is illegal. The whole paranoid notion of 'what are they hiding' can and will enter people's minds (eg people like Meta). It then begins to literally fester as an underground movement. People who are anti government will start looking at laws like this and go along with the denialists because they have become an underground movement. Hatred breeds hatred and when haterd is mixed in with distrust, it can become dangerous.

When it is out in the open, it allows open dialogue. Those who wish to question should be free to do so. That way, they are able to gain access to the correct information, rather than have to question privately and fall prey to violent denialists who wish to cause harm and violence.

I am one of those people who dislikes underground movements because they are by their very nature, dangerous. It's better to be open and honest than to attempt to hide. By not making it illegal, those who climb up on that platform and attempt to use it as propaganda against others can be shouted down by those who know the truth. By silencing the denialists, you are also silencing those who are avidly against them and who are the voices of reason.

I guess I agree with you in principle, but in reality, too often I've seen hate groups gain momentum with freedom.

comprende? si? no?
i bet you retards want me to explain, huh?

/sneer

 

[Tiassa]

Assessing the Complaint

Assessing the Complaint:

Starts thread asking if a well known Jew is an anti-semite. Asks irrelevant questions related to the source material.

It's a fair question, given that some pro-Israeli parties are denouncing a well-known Jewish, Zionist lawyer as an anti-Semite. Indeed, I consider this accusation fallacious, which isn't a good way to start.

Doesn't listen to or read source material, but makes bogus claim regarding its contents.

Well, in the first place, she could stand on precedent alone. Plenty of people will tell me they didn't read my post and then proceed to tell me what's wrong with it. In one case, a moderator told me my complaint was not valid, and then crowed that he didn't read it.

Beyond that, though, what would have been so wrong with posting the transcript? It seems problematic, to say the least, to tell someone to watch thirty-one minutes of video while giving them no useful contextual cues.

Furthermore, the accusation of bogus claims regarding its contents is not substantiated. The section of the transcript (provided by S.A.M.) offered is seven paragraphs long. The first three complain that nobody ever did enough damage to the Palestinians. The fourth invokes World War II and, together with the fifth claims that attempting to minimize casualties excuses, say, the slaughter of children. What is he going to say? "452 children? It's better than 4,500 children, isn't it? That's what we really wanted to do, but we decided to restrain ourselves just for you.

The sixth paragraph praises Israel and attacks the UNHRC, which attack continues in the seventh.

At no point in that excerpt did Mr. Netanyahu actually attempt to refute the accusations made in the Goldstone report.

Starts an intentionally inflammatory thread on the Holocaust, not shockingly on Yom Kippur. Out of this thread I could post a whole slew of questionable assertions which are illegal in numerous countries ....

.... ie...
(questions historical sources of holocaust) ....

.... (compares concentration camps to GITMO and starvation was only incidental)

The links provided do not support the claim. At best, such an accusation is only valid according the preconception that this is the only thing S.A.M. could possibly be doing.

Nearly 1/3rd to half of her posts go to condemnation of Jews or Israelis.

What is the actual statistical breakdown on that? I've never gone back and counted.

Have you?

She and others (Namely pjdude and strawdog) have made the gross claim that the Holocaust is equivalent to the current palestine/israel divide. A claim that should at least have a formal debate to decide whether or not it's a direct violation of honesty standards.

Strange that no citation was made for this one.

To the other, let's think about numbers for a minute. Six million Jews murdered in World War II. It's horrifying. But if it's all about numbers, twenty-four million Russians died in World War II; between twelve and fourteen million. (Wikipedia, "World War II Casualties")

The reason the six million Jews is such a ghastly number is that it was calculated murder. Rwanda in 1994 was horrifying, and that slaughter reached maybe a million, with a footnote suggesting that equals seven out of ten Tutsis killed (Wikipedia, "Rwandan Genocide"). But look at that rhetoric: "... and that slaughter reached maybe a million". Maybe? Doesn't that sound almost mitigating?

Never again. It's a promise we've broken how many times? The Holocaust represents the darkest moment in Western civilization, and arguably the darkest moment in human history. But the comparison of other atrocities to the Holocaust is best found in considering the calculation of murder.

I would be very interested to see these claims and the threads in which they occurred.

Initial Verdict: Complaint is not valid.
_____________________

Notes:

Wikipedia. "World War II casualties". September 25, 2009. Wikipedia.com. September 29, 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

—————. "Rwandan Genocide". September 29, 2009. Wikipedia.com. September 29, 2009. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

 

[Gustav]

Reviews and recommendation: http://www.holocaust-trc.org/deny_history.htm

SAM:

You might want to try:

DENYING HISTORY: WHO SAYS THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED
AND WHY DO THEY SAY IT?
by Michael Shermer and Alex Grobman
University of California Press

This will answer all of the questions above, and contains references to many other sources you can then follow up yourself.

I was commenting on your choice of recommendations.

ahh
i see you noticed

12. If the argument turns upon general ideas with no particular names, you must use language or a metaphor that is favorable to your proposition. Example: What an impartial person would call "public worship" or a "system of religion" is described by an adherent as "piety" or "godliness" and by an opponent as "bigotry" or "superstition." In other words, inset what you intend to prove into the definition of the idea

32. A quick way of getting rid of an opponent's assertion, or of throwing suspicion on it, is by putting it into some odious category. Example: You can say, "That is fascism" or "Atheism" or "Superstition." In making an objection of this kind you take for granted 1)That the assertion or question is identical with, or at least contained in, the category cited; and 2)The system referred to has been entirely refuted.

The Essays of Schopenhauer : Book VII : The Art of Controversy​

 

[S.A.M.]

Schopenhauer is so...old :bugeye:

I use the more current educational tools for discerning such tools of communication

http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

 

[WillNever]

Genuine question: what's offensive about the muslim titties, and why should whoever posted them be removed? Are there muslims here who, due to their repressive religion, don't accept the existence of a natural and normal part of the female anatomy as part of reality or what?

 

[Gustav]

why dont you post the pic accompanied by the point(s) you wish to convey?