Religion and women.

[Jan Ardena]

Jan.. I don't know a single person who would read this:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/religion-and-women.163938/page-69#post-3668016

And who would not declare him a misogynist. I know several who would suggest a level of sociopathy here as well..

In other words, yes, he is a misogynist Jan. He's actually worse than you!

A misogynist, worse than another misogynist?
Now I know you have no real understanding of what you’re saying.

You’re problem is one of shallowness. If he said he was the greatest King that ever lived, would you be on here saying that this man is the greatest King that ever lived?

For someone to be a misogynist, they have to actually hate women. They would have to do, or say things that mean they hate women. Having an opinion about a women, or calling out a liar and a fake like wegs, is not being hateful of women, or wegs.
There is no way, especially with your poor psycho-analyst skills , to determine if this fellow, or myself, actually hate women, by the words we write. You need material proof.
Show why what is said means the person who said it hates women. When you can do that, then we can have a serious conversation.

Your incessant obsession with falsely accusing men of being misogynistic, and sexist, says more about you than those you accuse.
You are looking very sad right now (to people without this bs mindset), while wegs sits back and let you look daft.
You should let her speak for herself. I assume she’s a grown woman.

 

[billvon]

The witch trial were hatred of witches, not women.

You sound like a holocaust denier. "The Holocaust was not an anti-Jewish thing. Other religions were killed in German camps, you know!" That is perhaps the second most popular holocaust denial. (#1, of course, is that it never happened.)

 

[Dicart]

I love your joke. I didn't realized women are funny too. Mine is so serious, but I think she never laughs of my jokes because she never understand them... I got married to her because others who know her told me she was a serious person, and they were right... she never even smiles when we make love.

So saying God is a man was a joke ?
No, fore sure.
Id dont laugth either, but it is because i dont understand the joke (i am, so poorly equipped for thinking)

Now, seriously, you understand that identifying God to anything that you have around you and that you can understand is idolatry ?

Because you are sourcing The Bible (and not understanding anything that the translations problems can lead)

Perhaps you could find something helpfull here :

Exodus 20:3-6 ESV / 771 helpful votes
“You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Jonah 2:8 ESV / 440 helpful votes
Those who pay regard to vain idols forsake their hope of steadfast love.

1 John 5:21 ESV / 379 helpful votes
Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

Isaiah 44:9-20 ESV / 301 helpful votes
All who fashion idols are nothing, and the things they delight in do not profit. Their witnesses neither see nor know, that they may be put to shame. Who fashions a god or casts an idol that is profitable for nothing? Behold, all his companions shall be put to shame, and the craftsmen are only human. Let them all assemble, let them stand forth. They shall be terrified; they shall be put to shame together. The ironsmith takes a cutting tool and works it over the coals. He fashions it with hammers and works it with his strong arm. He becomes hungry, and his strength fails; he drinks no water and is faint. The carpenter stretches a line; he marks it out with a pencil. He shapes it with planes and marks it with a compass. He shapes it into the figure of a man, with the beauty of a man, to dwell in a house. ...

Psalm 16:4 ESV / 228 helpful votes
The sorrows of those who run after another god shall multiply; their drink offerings of blood I will not pour out or take their names on my lips.

1 Corinthians 10:14 ESV / 226 helpful votes
Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

Exodus 20:1-8 ESV / 165 helpful votes
And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

Deuteronomy 12:32-13:18 ESV / 138 helpful votes
“Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it. “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. ...

Isaiah 45:20 ESV / 125 helpful votes
“Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save.

Galatians 4:8 ESV / 118 helpful votes
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.

Revelation 9:20 ESV / 116 helpful votes
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,

1 Samuel 15:23 ESV / 106 helpful votes
For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has also rejected you from being king.”

1 Corinthians 10:7 ESV / 104 helpful votes
Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.”

https://www.openbible.info/topics/idolatry

 

[wegs]

It’s not a lie if it’s true. lol If you post misogynistic comments, you’re likely a misogynist.

Misogynist: “Waaa, I’m not a misogynist! You’re lying about me!”

Rational person: “Um, you post sexist and misogynist comments, so...”

Misogynist: “But, that’s just masculinity, not misogyny. I don’t hate women, I just think they should do as they’re told, not venture too far out into the workplace and if they get out of line, use violence if need be.”

Rational person: “Yea, that’s why you’re a misogynist.”

Misogynist: “Show me why you think I’m a misogynist.”

Rational person: “I just did.”

Misogynist: “Where?”

If it weren’t so sad, it might be funny. But it’s actually scary because these guys are out in the world ...among us.

 

[billvon]

For someone to be a misogynist, they have to actually hate women. They would have to do, or say things that mean they hate women.

Wrong again. You have been consistently wrong about this. Is that because you know you are a misogynist, and are trying to redefine the word so you can feel better about yourself? Or are you just plain ignorant, and are unable to learn from your mistakes?
==================
mi·sog·y·ny
/məˈsäjənē/

noun

1. dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
   "she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"

==================
mi·sog·y·ny | \ mə-ˈsä-jə-nē \
Definition of misogyny


: hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women - "a culture that promotes violence and misogyny"

 

[billvon]

It’s not a lie if it’s true.

I once had a long argument with a racist who kept saying "I am not a racist! I am just pointing out the scientific fact that blacks are not as intelligent as whites, and can't do the same kinds of jobs. That's not racism, that's science."

 

[billvon]

Can you give an example of misogyny in this thread?

Of course. "Man naturally heads over his wife and family, and his wife naturally understands that as she now has a child to develop. It is better if the man provides for his family, so that his wife can be a full time mother, for the sake of the child, and the structure in which the child is to develop."

That is a perfect example of prejudice against women. You have pre-decided that it's better if the man provides and the woman is a full time mother.

 

[wegs]

I once had a long argument with a racist who kept saying "I am not a racist! I am just pointing out the scientific fact that blacks are not as intelligent as whites, and can't do the same kinds of jobs. That's not racism, that's science."

Yea, it’s sad. What’s also sad is to justify the behavior by stating it’s somehow “God’s will” to berate and demean women. As a believer, that’s troubling but many religious circles have threads of misogyny woven throughout them. These men are claiming that this is how “God created” masculinity, but they’re delusional and it’s best to ignore them like swatting a fly away at a picnic.

 

[Jan Ardena]

You sound like a holocaust denier. "The Holocaust was not an anti-Jewish thing. Other religions were killed in German camps, you know!" That is perhaps the second most popular holocaust denial. (#1, of course, is that it never happened.)

Okay.
Show that it was hatred of women, and not witches?

 

[Jan Ardena]

@bilvon

These men are claiming that this is how “God created” masculinity, but they’re delusional and it’s best to ignore them like swatting a fly away at a picnic.

Did you read that bilvon?
She hates men who believe in God
See how she can deal with such men?
Just swat them away like you would a fly, at a picnic.
She also hates flies

 

[Luchito]

So saying God is a man was a joke ?
No, fore sure.
Id dont laugth either, but it is because i dont understand the joke (i am, so poorly equipped for thinking)

Now, seriously, you understand that identifying God to anything that you have around you and that you can understand is idolatry ?

Because you are sourcing The Bible (and not understanding anything that the translations problems can lead)

Perhaps you could find something helpfull here :


https://www.openbible.info/topics/idolatry

Excuse me but pardon me, but writing loose biblical verses to make your point is a complete nonsense.

 

[wegs]

Doh! Just spotted one. Two actually. ^^

A misogynist sighting.

They’re among us...

 

[Dicart]

Okay.
Show that it was hatred of women, and not witches?

I dont hate my "enemy", or competitor, because i know there is an arbitrator and i know that my ennemy is weak because he is poor in mind doing errors, like i did myself before i understand i did errors, and i am fair.
Hate is not in the christic message.
Therefore i am extremly powerfull, because i am weak, and with humility i say that i am not the one who is powerfull.

 

[Luchito]

It’s not a lie if it’s true. lol If you post misogynistic comments, you’re likely a misogynist.

Misogynist: “Waaa, I’m not a misogynist! You’re lying about me!”

Rational person: “Um, you post sexist and misogynist comments, so...”

Misogynist: “But, that’s just masculinity, not misogyny. I don’t hate women, I just think they should do as they’re told, not venture too far out into the workplace and if they get out of line, use violence if need be.”

Rational person: “Yea, that’s why you’re a misogynist.”

Misogynist: “Show me why you think I’m a misogynist.”

Rational person: “I just did.”

Misogynist: “Where?”

If it weren’t so sad, it might be funny. But it’s actually scary because these guys are out in the world ...among us.

So, playing to be "the victim" is how more adepts are collected?

I have been reading lots of links to "old eras" where women were treated worst than dogs" but those were old times. It is irrelevant to use those past events to declare today's society is against women and or similar.

It reminds me those guys who keep crying of still being victims of a war that ended 75 years ago! sheesss!!! Lol.

Some people can't let go.

I don't buy the story women are still victims of discrimination and abuses at great scale. I don't buy it, I don't see it, and because such are just sporadic cases, I truly don't care, the law is taking care of the abusers and that is the end of the story.

Nothing else to be modified in society.

 

[wegs]

So, playing to be "the victim" is how more adepts are collected?

I have been reading lots of links to "old eras" where women were treated worst than dogs" but those were old times. It is irrelevant to use those past events to declare today's society is against women and or similar.

It reminds me those guys who keep crying of still being victims of a war that ended 75 years ago! sheesss!!! Lol.

Some people can't let go.

I don't buy the story women are still victims of discrimination and abuses at great scale. I don't buy it, I don't see it, and because such are just sporadic cases, I truly don't care, the law is taking care of the abusers and that is the end of the story.

Nothing else to be modified in society.

You don’t need to experience something directly, to have empathy for those who do.

 

[billvon]

Did you read that bilvon?
She hates men who believe in God

She hasn't said she hated anyone. She did say that Christians who believe that it is somehow “God’s will” to berate and demean women are delusional. I agree.

 

[sculptor]

Yea, it’s sad. What’s also sad is to justify the behavior by stating it’s somehow “God’s will” to berate and demean women. As a believer, that’s troubling but many religious circles have threads of misogyny woven throughout them. These men are claiming that this is how “God created” masculinity, but they’re delusional and it’s best to ignore them like swatting a fly away at a picnic.

It seems that pre-agriculture ("hunter gatherers" - lets add fishers) the main deity was female
and then the burden of agriculture made men need a male deity to offset their labors, fears and frustrations of agriculture. Agriculture required many more hours of effort to get the food needed. And, then you had expanding kingdoms and taxation which increased the needed man-hours with no gain in food for the farmer.

Whenever someone feels the need to use a symbol to dominate or denigrate someone else, that is a crutch.
If you use a crutch long enough, you become a cripple who needs the crutch all the time.

determining that your god is male makes no sense----but, there are those who would say that no religion makes any sense.

............................?

(imho---anyone who would speak for god is delusional.)

 

[wegs]

It seems that pre-agriculture ("hunter gatherers" - lets add fishers) the main deity was female
and then the burden of agriculture made men need a male deity to offset their labors, fears and frustrations of agriculture. Agriculture required many more hours of effort to get the food needed. And, then you had expanding kingdoms and taxation which increased the needed man-hours with no gain in food for the farmer.

Whenever someone feels the need to use a symbol to dominate or denigrate someone else, that is a crutch.
If you use a crutch long enough, you become a cripple who needs the crutch all the time.

determining that your god is male makes no sense----but, there are those who would say that no religion makes any sense.

............................?

(imho---anyone who would speak for god is delusional.)

I remember a few years back on here, an article posted in the human science section here discussing how pre-Neanderthal period, men and women viewed each other equally. Considering they were often migrating, women weren’t sitting at “home” waiting for the men to return. Men and women did what had to be done to take care of each other and their communities. Men weren’t dictating to women, there seemed to be an ease by which men and women worked together. This is based on archaeological evidence.

Not sure if you recall that thread but thought that was interesting. Fast forward to today, and women are still fighting to be taken seriously in the workplace. We have made incredible strides for sure but it’s a slippery slope if misogyny leaks back in.

 

[Luchito]

It seems that pre-agriculture ("hunter gatherers" - lets add fishers) the main deity was female
and then the burden of agriculture made men need a male deity to offset their labors, fears and frustrations of agriculture. Agriculture required many more hours of effort to get the food needed. And, then you had expanding kingdoms and taxation which increased the needed man-hours with no gain in food for the farmer.

Whenever someone feels the need to use a symbol to dominate or denigrate someone else, that is a crutch.
If you use a crutch long enough, you become a cripple who needs the crutch all the time.

determining that your god is male makes no sense----but, there are those who would say that no religion makes any sense.

............................?

(imho---anyone who would speak for god is delusional.)

Open your mind a little wider.

Choosing men over women by ancient cultures based on their religions was not domination or attempts to denigration but setting ORDER.

Someone must be in charge, and men were the most suitable for the task.

Simple as that.

 

[Dicart]

Excuse me but pardon me, but writing loose biblical verses to make your point is a complete nonsense.

Pardon, excuse me, but didnt you not just argue that something was writen in the bible that was explaining your point of view ?
Here i give you many verse writen in the bible, so you can try to unserstand by yourself.

Why many verse would be nonsense when one verse would make sens ?