Rape Academy

DaveC426913

DaveC426913

Valued Senior Member
This just hit the front pages recently. It is blowing up the internet.

I am very frustrated at how difficult it is to find anything about it that isn't fraught with misinformation. And when I ask, I'm told I'm just another "man" who is trying to diminish it by asking for facts.

I leave it as an informative exercise for the user to find out about it themselves. Facts, I mean, not rhetoric.
 
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The more I think about it though, the more I sheepishly realize my comfort and needs are not what's important here.

Women are suffering, and rape culture is alive and well. I don't really need to have all the facts to take a firm stand on that.

Women have every right to not trust me on a dark street or in an elevator. That's their reality, and I don't take it personally.


So, I turn my question to this: what can we individuals do to help and support? I mean, beyond the obvious of outing it if/when we see it.
 
CNN did an investigation which seems to be supported by forensic evidence. These are criminals with severe personality disorders and need justice to find them. I would say to any woman, contact police immediately and get a prompt blood test before the drugs wash out of your system. Sounds like a Pelicot type of horror is playing out in households (on a smaller scale, usually just the spouse raping and filming), and too many police are shirking their duties as happens too often when women are abused domestically. These sick twisted assholes need to be locked in a nice deep hole. Fact.
 
TheVat said:
CNN did an investigation which seems to be supported by forensic evidence. These are criminals with severe personality disorders and need justice to find them. I would say to any woman, contact police immediately and get a prompt blood test before the drugs wash out of your system. Sounds like a Pelicot type of horror is playing out in households (on a smaller scale, usually just the spouse raping and filming), and too many police are shirking their duties as happens too often when women are abused domestically. These sick twisted assholes need to be locked in a nice deep hole. Fact.
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I think there's more we can do as individuals - at a societal level. I'm just not sure what. I mean, dismantling the prevalence of rape culture is a good start...
 
Randwolf said:
@OP - You might want to add a link for context:

www.cnn.com

Exposing a global ‘online rape academy’ that is teaching men how to abuse women and evade detection

CNN exposes an online network of men encouraging each other to drug and assault their partners, and swap tips on how to get away with it.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

Just sayin'...

That is what you are referring to, right?
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Thanks, I was wondering what this thread was about. But Is there an article about this somewhere that isn’t fucked up with stupid dramatic effects?

This story doesn’t seem to have made it over here. I wonder how “global” it is, except inasmuch as anything on the internet is “global” automatically.
 
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exchemist said:
Thanks, I was wondering what this thread was about. But Is there an article about this somewhere that isn’t fucked up with stupid dramatic effects?
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Exactly. (and no there isn't, at least at the time of the OP)

The melodrama and theatrics make it difficult to take it as seriously as it should be taken. But I'm trying to get past that.

Worse, it's blowing up on social media but the same problem is happening. Everybody is raging about how everybody else is reacting and no one is talking about the event.

"Do your research, you neanderthal!" about sums it up.
 
DaveC426913 said:
I think there's more we can do as individuals - at a societal level. I'm just not sure what. I mean, dismantling the prevalence of rape culture is a good start...
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1) TEACH consent, as in a class, to cover the topic with kids. Doesn't even have to be about sex; cover any physical contact.

2) Be obvious about consent. Ask people before you hug them, or help them to take a jacket off or get out of a car. Yes, many times it's completely unneeded - but if people see it all the time they will think about it.

3) Denormalize jokes about it. "9 out of 10 people think gang rape is OK!" - joke heard about ten years ago from a (former) friend. Don't just go along to get along. Make a big fucking stink about it, even if it makes you unpopular.
 
[...]
www.cnn.com

Exposing a global ‘online rape academy’ that is teaching men how to abuse women and evade detection

CNN exposes an online network of men encouraging each other to drug and assault their partners, and swap tips on how to get away with it.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
[...]
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  • Some forms of pornography have long normalized violence against women as entertainment, with algorithms that favor extreme content further pushing exploitative material into the mainstream, experts say. Clare McGlynn, a law professor at Britain’s Durham University and an expert on violence against women and girls, told CNN that the growing presence of voyeuristic material on mainstream porn sites “glorifies” abusive behaviors both on and offline. It’s a problem that “many men and many people in society aren't taking seriously enough,” she said.
And there's the ultimate incubator of these trends: The porn industry itself.

Thanks to all the pop-psychology adages from the revolutionary 1960s celebrating generally that "no sex is ever wrong" -- in the course of society's ecstatic liberation from oppressive Puritan influences... The overall BDSM culture isn't even deemed quasi-pathological.

And while whatever spins off from fake roleplaying fetishes into addicts desiring the real thing can be criminal (i.e., against one's will), the mixture of the minority latter mingled with all the faux material probably makes it difficult to discern. Though definitely helpful to law enforcement when one of them provides a link to a "How to accomplish your fetish for real" instruction site.

According to claims in blogs and news comment sections, the act below (and different ones in other fetish genres) is also common in those pretend videos. Where the roleplayer is feigning sleep, being drunk, high, groggy, etc. A "real devils sort of hiding in the camouflage" strategy.
  • "[...] In these videos, men film themselves lifting the closed eyelids of women to show they are sleeping or sedated, with some 'eyecheck' videos surpassing 50,000 views."
It's the decadent future that old science fiction once warned us about. Given the kind of video games that even mortals casually play, one might ponder if this world itself could be what a sadist pantheon at the far end of technologically assisted evolution set up to feed on as an invisible, emotional-vampire audience.

The Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prowler_in_the_City_at_the_Edge_of_the_World

"He is surprised to discover that there are other mental presences or personalities coexisting within his own mind, commenting on the brutality of his acts as if they were spectators at a theatrical performance or aesthetes critiquing a work of art in a museum. [...] Jack learns to his horror that the City denizens have only manipulated him again to sate their decadent desire for entertainment. "
_
 
C C said:
The Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World
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Ugh, I remember discovering the Dangerous Visions collection and how dark that Ellison story was. I had not pondered such scenarios in regard to our present situation, but it would be hard to rule out future emotional vampires dining large now. Anyway, I was circling back to what some porn can normalize, going from faux to real, as you address. That cursed amplifier effect of the Web and what's monetized these days. It's more of this cyber effect of things formerly so forbidden as to dwell under big rocks, now crawling into the daylight and begging for clicks. As billvon suggests, we really need to claw our way back to long talks with the children and teaching the deep meanings of consent and respect.
 
DaveC426913 said:
So, I turn my question to this: what can we individuals do to help and support? I mean, beyond the obvious of outing it if/when we see it.
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Well, the first thing is to stop pretending it's misinformation:

I am very frustrated at how difficult it is to find anything about it that isn't fraught with misinformation. And when I ask, I'm told I'm just another "man" who is trying to diminish it by asking for facts.
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If I don't ask if an AI wrote that for you, it's because I am well aware that human men really do say things like this. And by your own description↗, you know some weird people..

But it stands out that your public address of this issue leads with doubt and accusation. The first thing we as individuals can do to help and support is to stop doubting and accusing like that.
 
It's one thing what's coming to light from the article itself, but it has ignited a firestorm on social media that's left me reeling. Angry, angry men have come poring out of the woodwork. The majority of responses from men are hateful, defensive and dismissive.

They focus on the numbers - but not the numbers in the article (which is never disputed); instead they attack the posts that blur the numbers*. And then use that as an excuse to ignore the problem. The vast majority of activity is of the form: "62 million views is not 62 million men. Lots of repeats and many are bots and some are probably women. Get your facts straight. (full stop)"




* full disclosure: Initially, I reacted the same way. I criticized the numbers and the theatrics. It was in very short order that I realized how knee-jerk my reaction was to distance myself from the very real abuse of the very real 50% of the population. I didn't mean to; it was just the first thing off my fingertips. Perhaps that's why I am so horrified. I saw it in myself - I led with my math, not with my humanity.





So, an open letter to all those dismissive, defensive men:


"Sir, I'm afraid your claim that she held a loaded gun to your temple and pulled the trigger is highly misrepresentative of the facts.

We estimate that there were no more than three bullets in the gun, and we guess that figure is more likely only one bullet. A gun with one bullet is a far cry from "loaded", as you dishonestly claimed. Sure, 6/6 would be a big problem, but 1/6 is hardly worth mentioning. So fake.

No, we don't need to hear the rest of your story. It's the numbers that matter - not whether your brains are splattered on the opposite wall. Hardly worth getting hysterical about. Calm down."
 
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Well lookithat. An unofficial database of people reporting their abusers.

NameHim — Community Bad Actor Database

A community-powered database of reported bad actors. Search by name and location.
www.namehim.io www.namehim.io

(And the orange Cheeto is right there above the fold.)

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I can see how this is definitely open to abuse. Jilted women putting their ex's name on here out of spite.


And, as an argument against that abuse, Blackstone's ratio rings in my ears:
"Better twenty guilty men go free rather than one innocent man be hanged."

But really, I'm just not so sure it holds here the same way.

How many abusive men have to go free for one woman to get justice? What makes a man's right to live a shackle-free life more justified than a woman's right to the same thing? Maybe it's time for women to get the benefit of the doubt and to put the onus on the men to claw their way out of trail-by-media.
 
DaveC426913 said:
I can see how this is definitely open to abuse. Jilted women putting their ex's name on here out of spite.
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You dont even have to be a jilted woman. Once 4chan find out about this, this could be a new type of SWATing. I like the idea, but this is way open to abuse. You can piss off anyone, and anyone can get you listed here.

There is no profile, there is no requirement for evidence. Anyone can submit a name. Basically everyone with that name in those areas gets their name dragged through the mud.

I like the idea of keeping a list of convicted offenders, but this is so vague and open to abuse.

One of the names on there is the name of a Youtube channel I follow (a law one) : "Legal Eagle"
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There is also woman names on there:

1776746196777.png
 
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w1z4rd said:
You dont even have to be a jilted woman. Once 4chan find out about this, this could be a new type of SWATing. I like the idea, but this is way open to abuse. You can piss off anyone, and anyone can get you listed here.

There is no profile, there is no requirement for evidence. Anyone can submit a name. Basically everyone with that name in those areas gets their name dragged through the mud.

I like the idea of keeping a list of convicted offenders, but this is so vague and open to abuse.

One of the names on there is the name of a Youtube channel I follow (a law one) : "Legal Eagle"
View attachment 7489
There is also woman names on there:

View attachment 7490
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Agreed. Bypassing the law with what amounts to vigilante justice is a terrible idea, leading in the end to social breakdown.
 
w1z4rd said:
and open to abuse.
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And god forbid someone's name should be abused.

Recall why this exists: because actual women are being bullied, predated, assaulted and raped.

You see the problem, yes?

Why do we have more concern about having someone's name dragged through the mud than we do about an actual human being beaten?
 
exchemist said:
Agreed. Bypassing the law with what amounts to vigilante justice is a terrible idea, leading in the end to social breakdown.
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I'm starting to understand the female point of view now.

The social breakdown of which you speak implies a current social structure that de facto supports abuse and rape of women. In light of that, why would we NOT want to break it down?

Or, look at it another way: why are we so protective of the rights and safety of men who might or might not be guilty of assault, rape and murder, at the expense of the rights and safety of women who are actually being assaulted, raped and murdered?
 
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DaveC426913 said:
Why do we have more concern about having someone's name dragged through the mud than we do about an actual human being beaten?
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Preventing false accusations (and sometimes the ruin of careers and lives) is not necessarily of more concern here, but it is a concern. One problem, vigilante dogpiling on the web, doesn't dismiss or lessen the other problem of abuse of women.

You wouldn't end crime by putting self-service gallows on every corner.
 
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