Racial Divisions in the U.S.

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What African Americans experience goes beyond a "feeling".


Which you have done yourself.


If the over representation of African Americans in the criminal justice system because of over policing and the sheer number of black people killed by the police, some even in the back as they are running away, or choked to death on camera, the answer to your question is yes, black people are being targeted unfairly.

Is there such a thing as white privilege? Yes. Your posts in this thread are evidence of this. Is there a solution? Certainly. Stop stereotyping them and stop being racist. Yes, it really is that simple.

Do I know how long it will last? It won't stop as long as people racially profile, stereotype based on ethnicity and skin colour and are racist.

And yes, people of other ethnic groups also suffer.

To give you a primary example of the racism that exists in your country.. One only has to look at the election (twice) of your first black President. People tout this as being an example of just how your country is not racist and how black people are not treated unfairly. They fail to acknowledge that Obama has been subject to racist and bigoted accusations, such as he is not even an American for the whole tenure of his Presidency. The birther debate is a prime example of the racism that pervades your society and the political establishment.


A few things about this paragraph.

There is no "however" after saying slavery was "absolutely terrible". "However" is a means to shove it under the rug to excuse current opinions about black people and equally bad, claim victimhood because you are white. You may not have participated in it, but you currently reap the benefits of it. The attitudes about blacks from the days of slavery, which are only a few generations ago, prevail. The belief that they are lazy, live in ghetto's, for example, that they are less intelligent, etc, stems directly from the days of slavery.

To declare that you feel "no black man should ever use that an excuse for his anger" shows a clear disconnect to the reality that black men face because of the attitudes that continue to exist about black people from days of slavery. What? Do you expect them to ignore the history of how they came to be in the US? Your country celebrates when white people first appeared in the US and your country's growth and development, a lot of which was built on the backs of slaves, but you seem to believe that any group that suffered as a result of that, should simply ignore their history. To wit, your country would not be where it is today without the pain and suffering of their ancestors. Declaring that they should not feel enraged about this is racist.


Are you serious?

The reason behind their poverty can be traced right back to the fact that they were never given the chance for an equal footing in the US. There is a reason why poverty is so pervasive among African Americans and that can be traced right back to slavery. The cultural mindset that existed back then about African Americans continues to this very day. And your next comment is simply an example of that:


This is exceptionally racist and offensive.

To wit, you are simply parroting attitudes whites had about blacks in the days of slavery to justify slavery. That blacks were violent and needed to be controlled, that they were too stupid to do anything or lacked the skills to amount to anything or do anything without being owned and controlled, that they lack education (while being denied the right to an education and many slaves were killed for simply learning to read - the term "uppity nigger" existed to describe any black person who dared to become educated or consider themselves 'equal' to the white man, the stereotype that they are rapists, violent, are unable to have families.. The argument you just made, is the exact justification that white slaver's used and racists used to mistreat black people.


Have you considered how many black people or hispanics lost job opportunities (or housing, access to education, health care) because of their skin colour or ethnicity?


What breeds racism are attitudes like what you have espoused in your opening post.


Yes. Sometimes it's better to stop when you are well behind.



Is this the same Fire Department that throughout the US, have consistently blocked non-whites from joining their ranks in equal numbers to whites?

The vast majority of murders in the black community, is done by other black community members, so this "sheer number" of murders done by police is actually very small. In addition to that, the vast majority of the small number are justified. This is obervable fact and easily researchable.

A black individual of presemt day doesnot struggle in society due to his skin color. They certainly don't lose jobs for it. If they have the qualifications they succeed as any other member of society does. However, many never get qualified for higher paying jobs, because many simply don'tgraduate high school, and even fewer college. This is not racist, but another observable fact.

No argument i have made could be used to mistreat people or enslave them. that is just your purposeful misrepresentation. I am simply pointing out facts, and then having reasonable interpretation of the facts.

What I am doing, is showing the anger they portray is unjustified, and directed wrongly. For instance, if "black lives matter" it would stand to reason that they attack the source of the vast majority of the murders, which isnt white people or cops.

Why should other races represent equal portions of the fire department when they dont represent equal portions of our population? They shouldn't. You are being emotional.

Nothing i have said is racist, its simply true.
 
Wow, now your true white pride racism is coming to the foreground here.

OK, how about this economic research, http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html , that revealed that people who have names that sound like they might be black have a harder time getting a job?

This is just one example of systematic problems throughout the USA that operate against white people.

I'm sure that you don't know, or choose not to know, about the stop-and-frisk policy of the New York Police Department and the racial biases shown there. http://racism.org/index.php?option=...e&id=1517:nystopandfrisk&catid=136&Itemid=155

So I'm making up slavery and Jim Crow and Rodney King and the National Bureau of Economic Research and the New York Police Department?

So, when you look at the ability of people to graduate high school, you think, "Everyone in high school is a competent human being with no problems at home, so if a person fails to graduate high school, it is their fault and not the fault of anyone else." You don't want to give opportunities to non-white people and you won't even help a kid graduate high school.

And if a white kid was having trouble in school because they couldn't rely on their home life, would you tell that white kid that they did not deserve any help?

Ok mr extreme bias, heads up.

Rodney king happened, as have other police beatings, they occur and when they do the culprits deserve punishment. However the few that happen do not at all represent any measurable scale of police bias. The over represented black population in jail is likely because they are committing the most violent crimes, as is represented in statistics. Easy notion to come by if you did an ounce of research. Also, police beatings occur in the white population as well, its not a black community only issue.

That one study, although valid, hardly constitutes the claims it makes. The results could have been for any reason as the names were assigned at random and doesnt necessarily mean they were assigned to equal resumes. Weak.

That is just it! Blacks often times strughle in school because of thier home life...which goes directly into the idea that thier culture is in need of change. Success, starts in the home. And yes, a black child receives the same opportunities for help from outside sources as a white child. As for help from in the home, thats not something we can fix, the family has to.
 
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Divide and conquer.
Smoke and mirrors.
Misdirection.

Give the mentally challenged something stupid upon which to focus, and they will not notice while the elites pick their pockets.

Keep juicing the racial or religious or ethnic differences. You are doing the devil's work.
 
Being any colour and discriminating against via racial stereotypes is racist.

It's not that being white causes racism and no one has said such a thing. Being white (or any colour really) and treating others differently or stereotyping against them because of their colour or ethnicity is distinctly racist.

For example, we have one poster in this thread who has declared that he will not rent his property to people of colour because he does not want to devalue his property. We have another poster who has pretty much embodied the very definition of racist stereotyping by not only ignoring the inherent institutional racism that exists, but also declaring that blacks who live in what he determined to be "ghettos" are lazy, uneducated, violent or prone to violence, lack problem solving skills (another way of declaring people are simply stupid). This is racist. The inability to understand the racist ideology that forced black people into ghetto's, restricted their access to education and employment, forcing the those very stereotypes on them to keep them there shows a fairly dangerous level of racism because it literally harks back to less than 100 years ago, where blacks who were educated, did not live in the "ghettos", had a nice house, worked in places like offices, for example, as being "uppity niggers".

This ideology still pervades society. If a black person somehow makes it out of the cultural mindset they have been forced into for generations by whites, they are deemed "uppity", they are constantly reminded that they do not really belong outside of that. A black person driving a nice car is more than likely to be stopped by police officers because the racist culture that is so pervasive teaches that blacks aren't meant to be driving nice cars, as such, they must have stolen it. That is the culture and institutional racism that keeps blacks in poverty.

So it isn't a matter of being white that causes racism. White culture that has embraced racist ideology historically and presently, that causes racism. There is a distinct difference.

As Kittamaru correctly points out, "race" does not exist in biology. What this thread proves is that "race" is a social construct, and it is all pervasive.

I am sure that Crcata does not believe he is racist. I am also certain that he is offended at being told his posts are racist. But they very much are racist. For example, here is one of his comments:



I want you to think about this for a few minutes.

Is it the police? And then he comments that the vast majority of interactions were deemed justifiable. In other words, the interactions of which he speaks amounted to white police officers shooting black people. In the majority of the time of these "justified" "interactions", the black men in questioned were unarmed. We have cases of black men dying in custody after being arrested for looking at a police officer and moving away from said police officers. Apparently avoiding eye contact is also tantamount to suspicion from the police, as is making eye contact. A black man cannot drive a nice car without fear of being stopped because the police believe they must have stolen it. A black man cannot walk down the street or sit on a bench outside a store, without police and others believing that he must be casing the joint. A black kid cannot play with a toy gun without two police officers driving their car up the curb and jumping out and shooting him within less than 2 seconds. Black kids cannot swim in a pool in a predominantly white area without being racially profiled and then thrown out and arrested like criminals for doing nothing more than swimming in a public pool in a predominantly white area. Try as I might, I cannot see how these actions are justified.

His comment ignores the very inherent and entrenched racism that exists behind that 'blue wall'. Blacks are more represented in prison because they are over-policed. Not because they commit more crimes than whites. If whites were policed as much as black people were, they too would over-represent in the criminal justice system. This is recognised around the world. Over policing certain groups within any population will see that group over-represented in the criminal justice system.

This over policing also ensures that black people are unable to move forward. Because they are constantly being stereotyped as criminals, constantly watched for any possible criminal behaviour and stopped by police for being black by police officers who stereotype. And stopped even though they have done nothing wrong. Not only that, black people are 3 times as likely to be searched as white people during one of these stops. It is even worse for Native Americans.

If you want a prime example of just how police differentiate between blacks and whites, you need only look at the unlikely social experiment conducted by two seminary students. One white, one black. Both dressed similarly, both taking part in the same protest, next to each other. Both committed the exact same so called crime. The difference in how the two were treated is stark and startling. And it raises the question, how is it justified that the black student is treated so differently to the white student for the exact same crime? And people like Crcata wonder at how or why black people are angry?

Look at the case of DeShawn Currie, an 18 year old male, who was pepper sprayed and arrested for entering his own house, with a key, because police felt he did not belong in the house where a white family lived after a neighbour racially profiled him and called 911. DeShawn is a child they had been fostering for a long while. Police pointed out to DeShawn, before pepper spraying him after he questioned what they were doing in his house, that he did not belong there, because picture frames in the living room had white people in it. Tell me, how many white teenagers are pepper sprayed and arrested for burglary because police believe they are burglars for entering their own house with a key?

And yet, a black woman can call 911 for help while being attacked by her ex-husband, and the attack is being played out on the 911 call, a call that lasted 11 minutes, during which, she was pleading for her life and her attacker was telling her he was going to kill her, the police got to her house, knocked on the door and when no one responded, they left. No further investigation took place. Her family pleaded with police to check the house again, after not being able to contact her. They were told by police to check the local jail and hospital. The family ended up having to break down the door and found her body. Do you think the same thing would have happened in a white neighbourhood? I don't. There is a great deal of disparity there.

Crcata deliberately glosses over all of these realities of "race" in America. And he dismisses them as being non-existent. So to answer your question, no, being white does not make you racist. What does make one racist is the support and belief in a system that enshrines racism at its very core. To wit, what is racist is white privilege and the defense of said white privilege while ignoring/and/or defending institutionalised racism by declaring it is all justified because (insert stereotype of choice here).

Ive already addressed these points, see above.

Your posts ignores the vast amount of other reasons why an officer would shoot someone, and how it isnt a black only issue.

Saying the truth does not make one racist.
 
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Crcata said:
The over represented black population in jail is likely because they are committing the most violent crimes, as is represented in statistics. Easy notion to come by if you did an ounce of research
As those who have done some research already know, that isn't true.

Blacks are over-represented in America's jails because they have been segregated into communities in which the law is more violently and oppressively enforced, and the economic resources important for avoiding the consequences of such focused attention have been systematically excluded. This was accomplished primarily by self-described "white" men, over the past several generations.
Crcata said:
And yes, a black child receives the same opportunities for help from outside sources as a white child
Nonsense. Everybody knows that is not, on average, even close to the truth.
Crcata said:
Nothing i have said is racist, its simply true.
Until you come to grips with the implications of the fact that the US black race is a fiction, invented long ago by white men to justify and organize plantation slavery in the Americas and with no reality outside of US sociological idiosyncrasy and circumstances, you will post racist bs forever.
 
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As those who have done some research already know, that isn't true.

Blacks are over-represented in America's jails because they have been segregated into communities in which the law is more violently and oppressively enforced, and the economic resources important for avoiding the consequences of such focused attention have been systematically excluded. This was accomplished primarily by self-described "white" men, over the past several generations.
Nonsense. Everybody knows that is not, on average, even close to the truth.


The law is not being enforced any differently, except likely more patrols in those areas, because surprise surprise...there is more crime. That is not racist.

Its a statistical fact that the black community commits more violent crime, which is why they are over represented in prison. Nothing more.

Everyone does not know that, because you are wrong. You just "feel" different, but they absolutely get the same help. It is inside the home where failure is occurring.

The issue with these arguments are that individual isolated cases does not = to a national level issue as is normally presented as such. Every case that is linked here of police or teacher's, or anyone doing X, can be countered with the same incident elsewhere with races being the opposite.
 
Ok mr extreme bias, heads up.

Rodney king happened, as have other police beatings, they occur and when they do the culprits deserve punishment.
Wow. I wish I lived in the dream world you live in where the police only beat those people who "deserve punishment".
However the few that happen do not at all represent any measurable scale of police bias. The over represented black population in jail is likely because they are committing the most violent crimes, as is represented in statistics. Easy notion to come by if you did an ounce of research. Also, police beatings occur in the white population as well, its not a black community only issue.
If this were the case, does this mean that you have no duty to do something to help black people?
That one study, although valid, hardly constitutes the claims it makes. The results could have been for any reason as the names were assigned at random and doesnt necessarily mean they were assigned to equal resumes. Weak.
So now you don't trust statistics? You only trust statistics that make white people look good? That would be your racism showing.
That is just it! Blacks often times strughle in school because of thier home life...which goes directly into the idea that thier culture is in need of change.
So being hungry is just a "culture" thing?
Success, starts in the home. And yes, a black child receives the same opportunities for help from outside sources as a white child.
Except, as the statistics show, black children are less likely to get a job. Oh, wait, you don't trust those statistics because they aren't white enough.

As for help from in the home, thats not something we can fix, the family has to.
But you clearly aren't willing to offer black people extra opportunities to make up for the problems that you identify within their homes. Even though you recognize a problem, you aren't going to help.
 
Crcata said:
The law is not being enforced any differently,
Silly boy. Of course it is, and everyone knows it.
Crcata said:
Its a statistical fact that the black community commits more violent crime,
Yes.
Crcata said:
which is why they are over represented in prison.
No. That is not supported by the statistics. Only a small fraction of the excess black population in prison is explained by the extra violence.
Crcata said:
It is inside the home where failure is occurring.
Among other places. Statistically. It is also inside the courtroom, the school, and the workplace. And it is also outside, on the public street.
 
A black individual of presemt day doesnot struggle in society due to his skin color. They certainly don't lose jobs for it. If they have the qualifications they succeed as any other member of society does.
Factually incorrect. Some examples:
===========================
Politifact
Do job-seekers with 'white' names get more callbacks than 'black' names?
By Katie Sanders on Sunday, March 15th, 2015 at 6:29 p.m.

"Every day, a black-name resume is 50 percent less likely to get responded to than a white-name resume," Ross said. "Right? That’s everyday racism." . . .

Our ruling

Ross said, "Every day, a black name resume is 50 percent less likely to get responded to than a white name resume."

A reputable study by respected economists of callback rates for resumes with white- and black-sounding names backs up this point. Ross' biggest error is his specifc phrasing, while white names were 50 percent more likely to get a call back, that means that black names were 33 percent less likely to do so.

Ross made a mistake in his phrasing -- one that tripped us up as well. But his overall point remains valid and the study he relied on showed a sizable discrepancy between white and black sounding names.

We rate the claim Mostly True.
============================
U.S. Companies Often Assume Black Job Applicants Do Drugs
05/07/2014 12:03 pm ET | Updated May 08, 2014

More than any other group, black job applicants are being turned away by U.S. companies under the implicit assumption that they are using illegal drugs, according to a new study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER).

The study’s author, University of Notre Dame economics professor Abigail Wozniak, looked at how hiring practices differ between states with laws that incentivize or encourage drug testing and states with laws that limit or do not require such testing. She found that pro-testing legislation has a “large” and positive effect on black employment and wages, especially among low-skilled black men.
=================================
 

3:40
"... He wants to go and do you in
Because the color of your skin
Just don't appeal to him
(No matter if it's black or white)
Because he's out for blood tonight ..."
....................
 
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billvon said:
The study’s author, University of Notre Dame economics professor Abigail Wozniak, looked at how hiring practices differ between states with laws that incentivize or encourage drug testing and states with laws that limit or do not require such testing. She found that pro-testing legislation has a “large” and positive effect on black employment and wages, especially among low-skilled black men.
Whoa. Never thought of that wrinkle.

I'm still anti-drug testing, but that's a pause for reflection.
 
Factually incorrect. Some examples:
===========================
Politifact
Do job-seekers with 'white' names get more callbacks than 'black' names?
By Katie Sanders on Sunday, March 15th, 2015 at 6:29 p.m.

"Every day, a black-name resume is 50 percent less likely to get responded to than a white-name resume," Ross said. "Right? That’s everyday racism." . . .

Our ruling

Ross said, "Every day, a black name resume is 50 percent less likely to get responded to than a white name resume."

A reputable study by respected economists of callback rates for resumes with white- and black-sounding names backs up this point. Ross' biggest error is his specifc phrasing, while white names were 50 percent more likely to get a call back, that means that black names were 33 percent less likely to do so.

Ross made a mistake in his phrasing -- one that tripped us up as well. But his overall point remains valid and the study he relied on showed a sizable discrepancy between white and black sounding names.

We rate the claim Mostly True.
============================
U.S. Companies Often Assume Black Job Applicants Do Drugs
05/07/2014 12:03 pm ET | Updated May 08, 2014

More than any other group, black job applicants are being turned away by U.S. companies under the implicit assumption that they are using illegal drugs, according to a new study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER).

The study’s author, University of Notre Dame economics professor Abigail Wozniak, looked at how hiring practices differ between states with laws that incentivize or encourage drug testing and states with laws that limit or do not require such testing. She found that pro-testing legislation has a “large” and positive effect on black employment and wages, especially among low-skilled black men.
=================================

Already addressed this.
 
Already addressed this.
I was responding to your claim that "If they have the qualifications they succeed as any other member of society does." The above examples prove that they do not. Based only on their race, they are denied opportunities.
 
I was responding to your claim that "If they have the qualifications they succeed as any other member of society does." The above examples prove that they do not. Based only on their race, they are denied opportunities.

And I addressed that claim already above, it simply doesn't prove anything. For reasons stayed previosly. Certainly doesnt combat the fact that many dont ever obtain the qualifications for higher paying jobs.
 
And I addressed that claim already above, it simply doesn't prove anything. For reasons stayed previosly. Certainly doesnt combat the fact that many dont ever obtain the qualifications for higher paying jobs.
Your previous reason was that, in this case, you do not trust the statistics. The inference that we should make from this is that you are racist.
 
The vast majority of murders in the black community, is done by other black community members, so this "sheer number" of murders done by police is actually very small. In addition to that, the vast majority of the small number are justified. This is obervable fact and easily researchable.
Are you doing your research on science sites, like looking at university studies? Or are you simply looking at racist white supremacist sites for their "research"? Because by all looks and appearances, it seems as though you have not really read much by way of research conducted by scientists and the legal community and you are instead, being a mouthpiece for sites like Stormfront.

I don't see how it is observable fact, when it is clearly cases of killing unarmed black men for minor crimes or no crime at all. We have seen, time and again, police officers lying (and proven to be lying when camera footage is observed) after beating or shooting black people (ie he went after my gun when camera footage shows the person running away from the police officer, who then shoots him multiple times in the back and then plants evidence) or the latest one, who claimed that the black youth in the car swerved his car and came at him in an attempt to run him down, when video footage from his own car shows the kid drive slowly past him and actually swerve away from him as to not run him down, which resulted in the kid being shot multiple times. I could go on and on. A man choked to death despite saying he could not breathe, ignored, he wasn't even resisting, a black kid thrown into the back of a police wagon which was driven so erratically, where they would stop randomly and the result was that the poor kid ended up with a broken neck and multiple contusions as though he had been beaten, his crime having looked at police and ridden his bike away, I mean, the list is never ending. You think these were justified extrajudicial killings by police?

The large number of murders in the black community is mirrored by that of the white community. To wit, the vast majority of murders in the white community are committed by white people. As for the minute number of police killing blacks, as you determine it:

Young black men were nine times more likely than other Americans to be killed by police officers in 2015, according to the findings of a Guardian study that recorded a final tally of 1,134 deaths at the hands of law enforcement officers this year.

Despite making up only 2% of the total US population, African American males between the ages of 15 and 34 comprised more than 15% of all deaths logged this year by an ongoing investigation into the use of deadly force by police. Their rate of police-involved deaths was five times higher than for white men of the same age.

Paired with official government mortality data, this new finding indicates that about one in every 65 deaths of a young African American man in the US is a killing by police.

“This epidemic is disproportionately affecting black people,” said Brittany Packnett, an activist and member of the White House taskforce on policing. “We are wasting so many promising young lives by continuing to allow this to happen.”

[...]

Overall in 2015, black people were killed at twice the rate of white, Hispanic and native Americans. About 25% of the African Americans killed were unarmed, compared with 17% of white people. This disparity has narrowed since the database was first published on 1 June, at which point black people killed werefound to be twice as likely to not have a weapon.

The research found that minorities make up the most number of unarmed people killed by police.. Gee, what a surprise.

A black individual of presemt day doesnot struggle in society due to his skin color.
I'm sorry, but what reality do you live in?

Do you ever leave your house? Speak to black people? Read the papers? Watch the news?

A black individual of presemt day doesnot struggle in society due to his skin color. They certainly don't lose jobs for it. If they have the qualifications they succeed as any other member of society does. However, many never get qualified for higher paying jobs, because many simply don'tgraduate high school, and even fewer college. This is not racist, but another observable fact.
This is factually wrong, again, and Billvon aptly demonstrates this. I take it that you did not bother to read any of the links I provided in the previous posts either, which also clearly demonstrated that you are factually wrong. I take it you failed to bother doing any reading on lack of access to education, how funding to schools in black areas are cut, how lack of education and employment opportunities exist for minorities in general and how poverty is directly connected to this?

And once again, reverting to the same white supremacist mentality in how you argue your points by making offensive stereotypes.

The only observable fact in this thread is your racism Crcata.

No argument i have made could be used to mistreat people or enslave them. that is just your purposeful misrepresentation. I am simply pointing out facts, and then having reasonable interpretation of the facts.
I said, I repeat, that you are parroting the exact same justification for slavery that white slavers used to continue generations of abuse and mistreatment of blacks and minorities, not to mention the same justification was used through the Jim Crow era and continues to this day. To wit, you are merely repeating what you have learned.

Every argument you have made in this thread is based on racist and bigoted stereotypes that have existed for centuries in your country. In effect, you are a part of the problem. Not a solution.

What I am doing, is showing the anger they portray is unjustified, and directed wrongly. For instance, if "black lives matter" it would stand to reason that they attack the source of the vast majority of the murders, which isnt white people or cops.
And the mere suggestion that the unfair treatment by police officers that targets them specifically because of their skin colour is unjustified is simply representative of your racist and bigoted attitudes. Their protest is inherently justified.

What you have failed to understand about the Black Lives Matter movement is that it is based on saying that black lives matter as much as that of any life, regardless of colour, especially when it comes to how the police interact with them. The BLM are about equal treatment and equal protection.

Why should other races represent equal portions of the fire department when they dont represent equal portions of our population? They shouldn't. You are being emotional.
Right.. Which makes sense that fire departments of predominately black or minority areas are full of white fire fighters, not to mention police departments?

The fire departments in the US is renown for its racist hiring policies and racially profiling applicants to keep out minorities and women. Or are you suggesting that women do not represent equal portions of your population as well?

Before you accuse people of being emotional, you should actually read what you post and remind yourself that it was you who advised us that you have a tendency to fly off the handle when angered (remember your OP?). We counter your racist arguments with fact. You come back with talking points that the KKK enshrine - that blacks are lazy, uneducated, violent, etc.. And you expect us to take you seriously?

Nothing i have said is racist, its simply true.
What is the truth in this thread is that you are a racist bigot. Your declaration that what you say is "simply true", despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary shows that you believe this way because you are a racist bigot who has his head so far up his.. well, so far deep in the sand to muffle out any reality that contradicts you. That is simply true.
 
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