Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,599
    He's not paid to be accurate; he's paid to sow misinformation.
     
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  3. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Notice how, when a war breaks out, everyone is suddenly some kind of strategic expert.

    I try to not think like this, primarily because it doesn't make sense to advertise your intentions if you want to defend your own country.
    I therefore always consider that any news about some tactical advantage or what Ukraine intends to do should not necessarily be taken at face value.

    Perhaps the Ukrainian military is planning to do something quite different than what all the war reporters are guessing they will do, or why they are doing what they are doing, say in the Bakhmut salient, and what their intentions are. Because of course, it pays to confuse the enemy. If Russia isn't sure about where or when a Ukrainian counter-offensive will begin, and it is quite an extensive battlefront, what will they do? What can they do, if tactical nukes are off the table?

    Are they already doing all they possibly can? And what is that? It looks like desperation.
    China is, of course, waiting. Most likely it will not be too sad about a politically and militarily weakened Russian Empire.

    Perhaps Vladolf will retire to his bunker and put a gun in his mouth . . .
     
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  5. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    I get that but wouldn't he be more effective at spreading misinformation if people didn't think he needed help putting on his shoes. As a general rule I think people don't try to get their info from people with dumbest person in the room vibes
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Oh yes. And when there's an airliner crash, everyone is an expert pilot. When there's a train crash, everyone is an NTSB expert. It's the way of modern media.
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    After visiting Saint Petersberg
    Putin decides to take the scenic route
    and
    decides to visit Estonia
    While crossing the border
    a border guard asks : Occupation?
    and Putin replies:
    "Not this time, visiting only".
     
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  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,237
    "Russia" is a country containing millions of individual human beings.

    Do you think all of them deserve death, then?
     
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,237
    Are they, though?

    Are you saying that all Americans hate Russians? Are you sure about that?
    I thought that Zelensky was the popularly elected leader of a democratic Ukraine.

    How did you find out about this secret CIA coup? Whose blood are you referring to?
    Did Zelensky single-handedly destroy the Ukrainian economy? That's interesting. What, exactly, did he do to achieve that? And why did he do it? It would hardly help his popularity as President, would it?
    Did Biden's son steal something? Which son? What did he steal? How do you know about it?
    The Donbas was Ukrainian territory, invaded and then occupied by Russia. The 14,000 figure that you mention is false. Are you not aware of why it's false? I think you need to do your research better.
    So you can't point us towards anything specific that supports your claims?

    Are conspiracy theories on youtube all you have?
    Is that worth the global effects on the world economy etc.?

    Is the US military a power unto itself, or do other people exert influence on it? For instance, can the US government do anything about the US military? Or does the military hand its huge profits to the government, or something? How does it work? Does Biden's son get all the military's huge profits, perhaps?
    Are those youtube conspiracy videos?
    War is seldom pretty. For instance, Russian soldiers have committed many war crimes in Ukraine, as you're no doubt aware.
    Is that what you'd like to see? Why?
    How would it help?
    I don't think you're really "the US", though. You're pretty far out on a limb by yourself, there, if you ask me. Does it pay well?
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    12,370
    And YouTube videos are your idea of "research"?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  12. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I think in the eyes of most far right wing Americans, the biggest benefit of having Russian occupation is the lack of Hispanics and Black people in the areas they control.
     
  13. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you equate destroying a country to destroying its citizens?
    The USSR was a transcontinental country, was it not?
    It contained even more millions than Russia currently has.
    Yet it was "destroyed", and without the need to kill its citizens, or without anyone needing to even think that they all "deserved death".

    Equating the country to the individual human beings seems rather a clumsy effort.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,599
    Many people see the people on TV as the most powerful/famous/intelligent people there are, because they are popular. So they conflate being on TV (or Youtube) to being right.
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah especially when a lot of those human beings don't seem very thrilled about being forced into the Russian fold in the first place. The Grand Duchy of Moscow has been on a continuous binge of land thefts for the last 1000 years, reversing that is not genocide.
     
  16. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    The logic is that Ukraine is a sovereign country whose citizens have the right to defend themselves from any foreign aggression, and even Russia already accepted this principle 30 years ago. China could choose to sell weapons to Ukraine and would probably receive a great deal of praise for doing that but nooooooooo, apparently Ukraine's not brutal and fascist enough.
     
  17. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Which nation/state/country has not?
     
  18. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Many of the countries Russia swallowed, for starters. Anyway what matters is what the remaining people today want, Russia can't claim stuff just because once upon a time Ivan the Terrible conquered it.
     
  19. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    2,106
    Only because they haven't got around to it.
    Any justification will do.
    No borders are sacrosanct ;they all melt away in time one way or another.
    Russia is not uniquely expansionist or nationalist.

    When what passes for international laws are flouted then we are all the poorer and the UN has withered on the vine probably since its inception
     
  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    That’s why Russia must be dismantled via legal means, like crippling its fake army in Ukraine, isolating it from global markets along with any allies who help it bypass sanctions, and acting on international humanitarian law if Russia attempts more genocides against separatist minorities.
     
  21. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    4,752
    Will Ukraine use chemical or biological weapons to kill Russian army?
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Probably not. That would jeopardize their international support, and so far they have seemed to be better than the Russians at least at waging a more "moral" war by, for example, not targeting civilians. (Not that there is a whole lot moral about war to begin with.)
     
  23. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    4,752
    Russia (Soviet) was supporting the Allied in WWII, why today Russia became enemy of the West?
     

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