Prove it to me...casting call to all LotR lovers
- Thread starter Zero
- Start date
lol, Zero
2. It's imaginative (fits within the definitions, again, given by dictionary.com). Many people recognise the artistic value,though I susopect you're not one, Zero.
3. Tolkien's occupation was a writer. Of literature.
4. It's a body of written work, in the given field of fantasy or whatever genre you wanna classify it under.
5. It's printed. In enormous volumes. :bugeye:
1. It's written. It's a body or written work. About the culture of Middle Earth.
2. It's imaginative (fits within the definitions, again, given by dictionary.com). Many people recognise the artistic value,though I susopect you're not one, Zero.
3. Tolkien's occupation was a writer. Of literature.
4. It's a body of written work, in the given field of fantasy or whatever genre you wanna classify it under.
5. It's printed. In enormous volumes. :bugeye:
good v. evil
i realize this thread is nearly dead, buti want to put in my two bits anyway. Zero, i agree the good v. evil plot is boring, predictable and really really old. (in the sense of absolute good and evil, not in a protagonist v. antagonist) however, look at lotr again. most of the trilogy tails frodo baggins, a hobbit. a halfling who is given an undertaking that is dangerous, and that he will most likely not return from alive. hobbits are by nature creatures that stay home and never really go anywhere or see anything. this book is about stepping outside the roles society gives you. become more than what you're told you are. fight every shackle, every wieght placed upon you as if the fate of the world depended on it. when things are their worst, look around you; those are your friends. and when you want nothing more than to give up, to give in and die: they will be standing there to push you foreward, or pull you back if needs be. dont judge a book on a tired good v. evil plot that is there for those unable to see past it and who have to have a happy ending. the true value of any book is in the things we cannot describe when we're done reading it, in that satisfactory feeling that you understand something, even if you dont know what. and if lotr doesnt do that for you, then find a book that does, but dont try to have and informed discussion when you are unwilling to change your mind. dont start a thread telling ppl to prove something to you when you arent going to listen anyway.
oh and on the helms deep fight scene, why did none of those damn horses trip on that steep gravely slope?
i realize this thread is nearly dead, buti want to put in my two bits anyway. Zero, i agree the good v. evil plot is boring, predictable and really really old. (in the sense of absolute good and evil, not in a protagonist v. antagonist) however, look at lotr again. most of the trilogy tails frodo baggins, a hobbit. a halfling who is given an undertaking that is dangerous, and that he will most likely not return from alive. hobbits are by nature creatures that stay home and never really go anywhere or see anything. this book is about stepping outside the roles society gives you. become more than what you're told you are. fight every shackle, every wieght placed upon you as if the fate of the world depended on it. when things are their worst, look around you; those are your friends. and when you want nothing more than to give up, to give in and die: they will be standing there to push you foreward, or pull you back if needs be. dont judge a book on a tired good v. evil plot that is there for those unable to see past it and who have to have a happy ending. the true value of any book is in the things we cannot describe when we're done reading it, in that satisfactory feeling that you understand something, even if you dont know what. and if lotr doesnt do that for you, then find a book that does, but dont try to have and informed discussion when you are unwilling to change your mind. dont start a thread telling ppl to prove something to you when you arent going to listen anyway.
oh and on the helms deep fight scene, why did none of those damn horses trip on that steep gravely slope?
Good input. As far as the Helm's Deep scene was directed, you got to realize that it is Fantasy. Hollywood. Thinking about it logically will only make it worse then it is. Look at it for it's qualities, it was a big battle to destroy the race of man. So what if they screwed all of the tactics up. ;0)
Zero,
By what standards have you won anything? All youve done is stated your opinions with out backing them up, and everybody has disagreed with you. Doesnt seem like any kind of victory to me.
By what standards have you won anything? All youve done is stated your opinions with out backing them up, and everybody has disagreed with you. Doesnt seem like any kind of victory to me.
im just going to restate this zero, as logic seems to escape you.
dont start a thread telling ppl to prove something to you when you arent going to listen anyway.
and i loved how the elves where the frist ones to greet the orcs when they burst through the wall, and it seems virtually none survived. poor elves.
dont start a thread telling ppl to prove something to you when you arent going to listen anyway.
and i loved how the elves where the frist ones to greet the orcs when they burst through the wall, and it seems virtually none survived. poor elves.
Really Zero. What "victory" are you referring to Zero? It was an intellegent back and forth of ideas and opinions. Your not taking home a trophy or anything. You put down your opinion and thats that. Here's a baloon Zero.
Elves are awesome. Especially in the Fellowship of the Ring in that very first battle against the legions of Mordor, when they all swiped their longswords or polearms, whatever the were, I forget, at the same time. Maginificent!
Elves are awesome. Especially in the Fellowship of the Ring in that very first battle against the legions of Mordor, when they all swiped their longswords or polearms, whatever the were, I forget, at the same time. Maginificent!
Whoa mama, whats going on?
I leave this board for a few months and look what happens? Chaos, total chaos!
Anyway, heres my thoughts...
I only just read LOTR a few months ago. I'm into similar books as Zero is (Orwell and Camus, but I quite like J G Ballard, Philip K Dick and Graham Greene too).
I was kind of reluctant to read LOTR because I wasnt particularly interested in reading a huge fantasy epic about dwarfs and wizards and the like. I preferred stories that were tight. Short and sweet. I was much more interested in reading J.D. Salinger than I was J R R Tolkien, and with the success the books had I figured that the LOTR books were probably overhyped junk-food.
However...
I read the books a few months ago, and I really enjoyed them, and I do think there are nuggets of wisdom in the books. Not necessarily a single unified message, but there are various themes and topics in the books which are hinted at here and there.
What I really enjoyed though was that the story itself was very well crafted. It was like listening to a piece of music with a great melody, and that for me was part of LOTRs strongpoints. Every book has its strength, its raison'd etre (excuse spelling). LOTR tells a good story, and thats the enjoyment I get from it. Not every book published has to be an existentialist essay.
For instance, I'm a fan of films like Donnie Darko and Gattaca, because they're interesting films with thought provoking ideas, but I also love Back to the Future because its a great adventure. Its a great story with great characters. I dont see why I should like Back to the Future less just because it happens to be great fun.
Now there is a great quote from 'Superman' (The Christopher Reeve movie).
Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman), in one point of the film says:
Some people in this world can read War and Peace and come away thinking its nothing more than an adventure novel, while other people can find the secret of the universe in the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper
Not bad for a comic book movie
I leave this board for a few months and look what happens? Chaos, total chaos!
Anyway, heres my thoughts...
I only just read LOTR a few months ago. I'm into similar books as Zero is (Orwell and Camus, but I quite like J G Ballard, Philip K Dick and Graham Greene too).
I was kind of reluctant to read LOTR because I wasnt particularly interested in reading a huge fantasy epic about dwarfs and wizards and the like. I preferred stories that were tight. Short and sweet. I was much more interested in reading J.D. Salinger than I was J R R Tolkien, and with the success the books had I figured that the LOTR books were probably overhyped junk-food.
However...
I read the books a few months ago, and I really enjoyed them, and I do think there are nuggets of wisdom in the books. Not necessarily a single unified message, but there are various themes and topics in the books which are hinted at here and there.
What I really enjoyed though was that the story itself was very well crafted. It was like listening to a piece of music with a great melody, and that for me was part of LOTRs strongpoints. Every book has its strength, its raison'd etre (excuse spelling). LOTR tells a good story, and thats the enjoyment I get from it. Not every book published has to be an existentialist essay.
For instance, I'm a fan of films like Donnie Darko and Gattaca, because they're interesting films with thought provoking ideas, but I also love Back to the Future because its a great adventure. Its a great story with great characters. I dont see why I should like Back to the Future less just because it happens to be great fun.
Now there is a great quote from 'Superman' (The Christopher Reeve movie).
Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman), in one point of the film says:
Some people in this world can read War and Peace and come away thinking its nothing more than an adventure novel, while other people can find the secret of the universe in the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper
Not bad for a comic book movie
Well since no-one has replied to my post I guess that makes me the winner.
And the crowd goes wild...
1-nil, 1-nil, 1-nil
And the crowd goes wild...
1-nil, 1-nil, 1-nil
YOU EVIL SQUIRRELS
How can you even BEGIN to insult Tolkien's world???
HOW???
I refuse to sink low enough as to answer your question. Middle-earth is my home.
Grrr. You are all evil. Every single bloody one of you, except maybe- MAYBE- for those of you on my side. MAYBE.
*Sob*.
Anyone who ISN'T insane and LIKES LOTR, go to Ultimate LOTR Resource. It's a good thread.
Bloody cheers.
How can you even BEGIN to insult Tolkien's world???
HOW???
I refuse to sink low enough as to answer your question. Middle-earth is my home.
Grrr. You are all evil. Every single bloody one of you, except maybe- MAYBE- for those of you on my side. MAYBE.
*Sob*.
Anyone who ISN'T insane and LIKES LOTR, go to Ultimate LOTR Resource. It's a good thread.
Bloody cheers.
One More Thing...
HOW DARE YOU CALL IT WORTHLESS???
I really could sit here for bloody HOURS, really, and go on about how wonderful it all is, but I'll spare you.
Thank you, friends, for defending Middle-earth. Thank you.
What does it contribute? Why does it HAVE to? I think it teaches you a lot, about a new world and the like.
See, I'm only- what is it now, 14? 15?- somewhere in there- but even I know to just decided I don't LIKE something and then resort to personal attacks to try to make other people hate it too. It's fine that you have a problem with it, okay? But don't try and make the REST of us renounce our titles as the kind of people who actually explore and try to enjoy something before writing it off for sludge, okay?
Cheers to everyone who is actually trying.
And if you don't like it? Then you don't like it. So get over it. No one wants to listen to you complain about how sucky you think it is. Thanks.
HOW DARE YOU CALL IT WORTHLESS???
I really could sit here for bloody HOURS, really, and go on about how wonderful it all is, but I'll spare you.
Thank you, friends, for defending Middle-earth. Thank you.
What does it contribute? Why does it HAVE to? I think it teaches you a lot, about a new world and the like.
See, I'm only- what is it now, 14? 15?- somewhere in there- but even I know to just decided I don't LIKE something and then resort to personal attacks to try to make other people hate it too. It's fine that you have a problem with it, okay? But don't try and make the REST of us renounce our titles as the kind of people who actually explore and try to enjoy something before writing it off for sludge, okay?
Cheers to everyone who is actually trying.
And if you don't like it? Then you don't like it. So get over it. No one wants to listen to you complain about how sucky you think it is. Thanks.
Ahem... obviously, Zero, you don't really know all that terribly much about the Elves.
Morgoth came from Valinor, the Undying Lands, their original home. He went to destroy/inslave/whatever Middle-earth. The Elves were forbidden by Valar to follow him, but they did, to save Middle-earth.
For directly disobeyed Valar, they were then exiled. They all were returning to Valinor because finally, they exile had been uplifted, and they were permitted to return, mostly because of the great evil come into the world that they could no longer prevent, and because the Elven homes, without the power of the Elven rings, would cease to exist.
Happy?
Good. Bloody cheers.
Re: good v. evil
sorry i can't just shut up and go away, really i am, but it's because they're the horses of Rohan.
if ya knew tolkien, you'd know that.
cheers.
Originally posted by deathrose
oh and on the helms deep fight scene, why did none of those damn horses trip on that steep gravely slope?
sorry i can't just shut up and go away, really i am, but it's because they're the horses of Rohan.
if ya knew tolkien, you'd know that.
cheers.