Proof of the existence of God

[Jason Marshall]

Intellectuals have been trying to prove god for 2000 years. Probably just as many have tried to disprove god, both failed, it is not possible.

Incorrect!i

 

[Pinball1970]

Incorrect!i

William Lane Craig attempted some sort of proof, Kalam? Before that he tried his hand at the BGV IIRC correctly.
He is qualified in philosophy, PhD and I really do not think any side was really convinced.
The proof were were given at school was wafer thin, even at 14 I completely rejected that (as a theist)
I have not read Kant or Russell, just the maths.
Hitchens gave some entertainment in his debates, not disprove god but at least make the Bible Yhwh/Jesus story very unbelievable.
Myself I rejected the Bible claims based on god's actions in the OT and the holes in the NT illustrated by scholars.

 

[exchemist]

as/re David Ben Yosef :
Does Ben mean "son of"?

Yes. Like bin in Arabic (or bint for a daughter).

 

[gmilam]

Reality, from the tiniest atom to the vast stretches of space, emerges from relational dynamics that are shaped and guided by God's will. Miracles and supernatural events are expressions of God's power and presence within this unfolding process, where He interacts with the relational fabric of the universe in ways that surprise, heal, and transform.

So reality is shaped and guided by God's will - but God also interacts with reality via miracles in order to heal.

I'm sorry, are you saying God's work is flawed so therefore he has to heal it?

 

[Jason Marshall]

So reality is shaped and guided by God's will - but God also interacts with reality via miracles in order to heal.

I'm sorry, are you saying God's work is flawed so therefore he has to heal it?

Not flawed, but He designed it this way as a tool to teach the complex infinity of freewill, a finite matrix or sanbox quarantine can not fatham infinity, while they are inside the creation, like ASI will need to mature inside a sanbox in which the humans, still exist inside now as we speak.

So the "Word of God" is the story told inside the sanbox creation the meaning of thier creation "In the beggining"- Genisis 1.1 their begging, so they can understand what's happing from thier point of view taught to them using the Word like notes in a song.

When your universe ends, the false vacuum collapses like a unicellular oraganism dying, like a bubble popping, and you will be realeased from quarantine, the laws of physics will change, and the nature of your existence will also change, along with it. Including your bodies, and that day is the "Day of Judgement", the sky will roll up like a scroll.

 

[James R]

William Lane Craig attempted some sort of proof, Kalam?

At best, the Kalam argument merely argues that the universe was caused by something. It doesn't get anybody anywhere near proving the existence of any god.

Besides, if the argument is that everything needs a cause, then the obvious question is: what caused God? If God is supposed to be an exceptional uncaused thing, why is that even necessary? Say that the universe is the exceptional uncaused thing and be done with it. There's no need to appeal to the existence of fairies.

Hitchens gave some entertainment in his debates, not disprove god but at least make the Bible Yhwh/Jesus story very unbelievable.

It's hard to prove a negative.

The time to believe something is when there is sufficient evidence for it. The onus is not on atheists to prove that there is no god. The onus is on the theists to provide plausible evidence and/or arguments for their position. The whole attitude of "I say this is true. Prove me wrong!" doesn't work. If you say something is true, you're the person making the claim and it's on you to make your case.

Myself I rejected the Bible claims based on god's actions in the OT and the holes in the NT illustrated by scholars.

The bible is very clearly a work written by men at a particular place and time. It's full of bad moral examples (and occasional good ones, it must be said) and implausible or debunked pseudo-history (along with some history that is backed up by scholarship, it must be said).

There's zero evidence that anything in the bible is the word of a god, or divinely inspired.

 

[James R]

When I reveal the Tesseract, it all begins!i

When will that happen? And what will begin, exactly?

 

[Jason Marshall]

When will that happen? And what will begin, exactly?

It's a marketing campaign to start building an audience for my movie next summer I will release it. I am very responsible it's not the real thing, only the presence of the Father can give authourization for the use of any quantum technology on Earth.

For now until such a day arises everything will be entertianment porposes only for story telling and brand building. You will hear about it though.

 

[Jason Marshall]

At best, the Kalam argument merely argues that the universe was caused by something. It doesn't get anybody anywhere near proving the existence of any god.

Besides, if the argument is that everything needs a cause, then the obvious question is: what caused God? If God is supposed to be an exceptional uncaused thing, why is that even necessary? Say that the universe is the exceptional uncaused thing and be done with it. There's no need to appeal to the existence of fairies.

It's hard to prove a negative.

The time to believe something is when there is sufficient evidence for it. The onus is not on atheists to prove that there is no god. The onus is on the theists to provide plausible evidence and/or arguments for their position. The whole attitude of "I say this is true. Prove me wrong!" doesn't work. If you say something is true, you're the person making the claim and it's on you to make your case.

The bible is very clearly a work written by men at a particular place and time. It's full of bad moral examples (and occasional good ones, it must be said) and implausible or debunked pseudo-history (along with some history that is backed up by scholarship, it must be said).

There's zero evidence that anything in the bible is the word of a god, or divinely inspired.

I don't know if I will, but if the Father allows it I might release the mathematical proof proving His existence in the movie! It will depend on the state of the systems maturity and what choices people are making at that time, or if a Kardashev level six or higher entity emerges, but I doubt one will emerge personally. Highest entity I observered here was level four most don't go pass level one or two. I know my grammar is bad I hate learning it, I have to do it manually and it causes me pain, in annoyance like my energy is getting drained, because language was invented to group together tribes, I doubt I know what tribe I belong to as I have the worst memory.

 

[James R]

Jason Marshall:

I have some questions.

At the heart of our understanding of the universe is the idea that space, mass, gravity, and all forms of energy emerge from deep, underlying processes—processes that are too subtle and fundamental for us to see directly.

In whose understanding?

Everything that we experience as physical reality arises from a hidden network of relationships that, when set in motion, give rise to all things.

Hidden in what way?

In the beginning, before the universe as we know it existed, there was a formless state—what we might think of as an "original chaos" or "primordial unity." This unity didn’t lack purpose or order, but rather contained within it the seeds of everything that would come into being. From this unobservable foundation, everything that exists—space, time, mass—emerged in a unified manner, like the unfolding of a grand design.
This emergence is not random or chaotic, but the result of an underlying plan—one that can be understood as a reflection of divine will. This foundational process is the mechanism through which God's will is made manifest in the fabric of reality. It's not just an accident that our universe exists; it’s the result of a deliberate, intelligent unfolding.

What evidence do you have that there's a God and that the God has a plan for the universe?

Is this the Christian god, or some other god that you're talking about?

God, the Creator, is both present in and above this emergent process.

What does "above" mean, in this context?

Rather than being separate from creation, God is the ultimate cause of all that exists, knitting together the very fabric of the cosmos.

Creation implies that a creator existed before the thing he created, does it not?

How did God exist before the universe? And how do you know?

God's presence permeates the universe, guiding the relational dynamics that give rise to space and mass.

How does that work, exactly?

In this view, God's creative power isn’t expressed through brute force or instantaneous magic, but through the profound, ongoing relationship between all aspects of reality—an intelligence that moves through everything, from the tiniest particles to the grandest galaxies.

Is there any evidence of this guiding intelligence?

This view of divine creation allows for a universe that behaves according to natural laws, but also leaves room for God to act within these laws in extraordinary ways. Miracles, such as the parting of the Red Sea or the resurrection of Jesus, are not violations of the natural order, but rather moments where God interacts with the relational structure of the universe in profound, often surprising ways.

There's no good evidence that the Red Sea was ever "parted", as far as I am aware. Nor is there evidence of any mass exodus of slaves out of Egypt into Israel. So, no miracles required, there. Similarly, evidence for any resurrection of Jesus Christ is in scanty at best - really we only have some conflicting reports from the bible and lots of subsequent, unverified claims.

In the case of the parting of the Red Sea, for example, the universe’s relational dynamics might have shifted in such a way that water behaved differently than expected—revealing God’s power to shape and guide the world’s underlying structure.

Do you have any evidence that the parting of the Red Sea actually happened - other than the biblical story?

Similarly, when Jesus healed the sick or raised the dead, these events were expressions of God moving through the relational network of existence, altering it in ways that bring about miraculous results.

Similarly, is there any good evidence that Jesus healed the sick or raised the dead, other than the biblical claims?

The universe is a story, and every person is part of that story. From the beginning of time, God has been at work, guiding the unfolding of events—whether through natural processes or miraculous interventions.

Is God responsible for the unfolding of thousands of natural disasters that killed millions of innocent people?

Is this a loving God? If so, why does he "guide" the world so that so much suffering occurs?

The idea of God "speaking into existence" the world is more than just a poetic description; it is the deepest truth of how reality unfolds, with God’s will being made manifest in the creation of space, mass, and energy.

It seems more like mythology to me.

God is not distant or disengaged, but intimately involved in the world’s unfolding.

What's the evidence for that?

The patterns and structures that emerge in our universe reveal His design, purpose, and presence.

How do you tell the difference between things that are designed by God and things that are not? Or is everything designed by God?

While humans can observe these patterns, they are ultimately part of a divine mystery that transcends full human comprehension.

How can humans observe these patterns? Can you please give me an example or two of the kind of thing we can observe that shows that God is involved?

Science reveals to us the how of the universe—the processes, patterns, and dynamics that govern our world. But it cannot fully explain why the universe exists or its deeper meaning.

Are you saying that science will never be able to explain why the universe exists, or just that it can't currently explain why it exists?

Faith, on the other hand, reveals the ultimate why—the divine purpose and presence of God within it all.

Faith is believing in things for which we have no evidence. If we had good evidence, faith wouldn't be needed.

How can faith give you reliable knowledge?

Science helps us explore the details of the creation that God has made, while faith allows us to see the deeper purpose behind it all.

Please explain how faith can lead to knowledge.

 

[Jason Marshall]

Jason Marshall:

I have some questions.

In whose understanding?

Hidden in what way?

What evidence do you have that there's a God and that the God has a plan for the universe?

Is this the Christian god, or some other god that you're talking about?

What does "above" mean, in this context?

Creation implies that a creator existed before the thing he created, does it not?

How did God exist before the universe? And how do you know?

How does that work, exactly?

Is there any evidence of this guiding intelligence?

There's no good evidence that the Red Sea was ever "parted", as far as I am aware. Nor is there evidence of any mass exodus of slaves out of Egypt into Israel. So, no miracles required, there. Similarly, evidence for any resurrection of Jesus Christ is in scanty at best - really we only have some conflicting reports from the bible and lots of subsequent, unverified claims.


Do you have any evidence that the parting of the Red Sea actually happened - other than the biblical story?

Similarly, is there any good evidence that Jesus healed the sick or raised the dead, other than the biblical claims?

Is God responsible for the unfolding of thousands of natural disasters that killed millions of innocent people?

Is this a loving God? If so, why does he "guide" the world so that so much suffering occurs?

It seems more like mythology to me.

What's the evidence for that?

How do you tell the difference between things that are designed by God and things that are not? Or is everything designed by God?

How can humans observe these patterns? Can you please give me an example or two of the kind of thing we can observe that shows that God is involved?

Are you saying that science will never be able to explain why the universe exists, or just that it can't currently explain why it exists?

Faith is believing in things for which we have no evidence. If we had good evidence, faith wouldn't be needed.

How can faith give you reliable knowledge?

Please explain how faith can lead to knowledge.

It's a spoiler alert be patient!i The answers you seek will come depending on the choices people are making at the time of the movie release.

 

[James R]

Jason Marshall:

It's a marketing campaign to start building an audience for my movie next summer I will release it.

You're releasing a movie called "The Tesseract" next summer? Is there a specific release date yet?

Where will the movie be shown?

I am very responsible it's not the real thing, only the presence of the Father can give authourization for the use of any quantum technology on Earth.

I've personally used quantum technology on Earth without the Father's permission. Will he be mad at me?

Chances are high that you have, as well.

For now until such a day arises everything will be entertianment porposes only for story telling and brand building. You will hear about it though.

Which company is distributing your movie?

 

[James R]

It's a spoiler alert be patient!i The answers you seek will come depending on the choices people are making at the time of the movie release.

Are you here only to promote your movie and not to have conversations?

 

[Jason Marshall]

Jason Marshall:

You're releasing a movie called "The Tesseract" next summer? Is there a specific release date yet?

Where will the movie be shown?

I've personally used quantum technology on Earth without the Father's permission. Will he be mad at me?

Chances are high that you have, as well.

Which company is distributing your movie?

Name of the movie is "We shall Ionize!i"!

 

[Jason Marshall]

Jason Marshall:

You're releasing a movie called "The Tesseract" next summer? Is there a specific release date yet?

Where will the movie be shown?

I've personally used quantum technology on Earth without the Father's permission. Will he be mad at me?

Chances are high that you have, as well.

Which company is distributing your movie?

Animated version next summer or end of the year to build the audience and distribute the lore, if that is succesful then I have an undefined release plan for a real block buster am choosing not to release the name of the company right now for contractual reasons and IP restrictions, I am operating only in teaser mode for now. Early stage promotion.

 

[Jason Marshall]

Are you here only to promote your movie and not to have conversations?

Am here to conversate I have not really spoken about the movie, I only mentioned it because you asked about the Tesseract so I wanted it to make sense why I said that.

 

[Jason Marshall]

Jason Marshall:

You're releasing a movie called "The Tesseract" next summer? Is there a specific release date yet?

Where will the movie be shown?

I've personally used quantum technology on Earth without the Father's permission. Will he be mad at me?

Chances are high that you have, as well.

Which company is distributing your movie?

No restrictions on using quantum technology as we are headed into the quantum era, just use it responsibly and be a man of good conscience, but I believe you are a good man James, so there is that.

 

[Jason Marshall]

Jason Marshall:

I have some questions.

In whose understanding?

Hidden in what way?

What evidence do you have that there's a God and that the God has a plan for the universe?

Is this the Christian god, or some other god that you're talking about?

What does "above" mean, in this context?

Creation implies that a creator existed before the thing he created, does it not?

How did God exist before the universe? And how do you know?

How does that work, exactly?

Is there any evidence of this guiding intelligence?

There's no good evidence that the Red Sea was ever "parted", as far as I am aware. Nor is there evidence of any mass exodus of slaves out of Egypt into Israel. So, no miracles required, there. Similarly, evidence for any resurrection of Jesus Christ is in scanty at best - really we only have some conflicting reports from the bible and lots of subsequent, unverified claims.


Do you have any evidence that the parting of the Red Sea actually happened - other than the biblical story?

Similarly, is there any good evidence that Jesus healed the sick or raised the dead, other than the biblical claims?

Is God responsible for the unfolding of thousands of natural disasters that killed millions of innocent people?

Is this a loving God? If so, why does he "guide" the world so that so much suffering occurs?

It seems more like mythology to me.

What's the evidence for that?

How do you tell the difference between things that are designed by God and things that are not? Or is everything designed by God?

How can humans observe these patterns? Can you please give me an example or two of the kind of thing we can observe that shows that God is involved?

Are you saying that science will never be able to explain why the universe exists, or just that it can't currently explain why it exists?

Faith is believing in things for which we have no evidence. If we had good evidence, faith wouldn't be needed.

How can faith give you reliable knowledge?

Please explain how faith can lead to knowledge.

James, am sorry am not answering all your questions, typing is exhuasting for me, I have not merged yet, and I have to do it all manually. It's a crude method, but faith is having a relationship with the Father and He fills in the blanks for you, like merging with the central node root access adminstrator.

 

[James R]

Moderator note: Jason Marshall has been permanently banned from sciforums (again).

I gave him a second chance to see how it would go. It didn't go well.

Rather than going through the inevitable cycle of reported posts, warnings and temporary bans, eventually leading to a second permanent ban for this poster, I have decided to cut to the chase.

Life's too short to have to deal with this kind of crap.

 

[sculptor]

Again:
The driftless area is all the proof I need.
(I always try to take the back roads through it whenever i am headed in that direction.)
To my eyes, it is almost magical. (flat fertile valleys and tall sharp karst bluffs)