Potential energy

[billvon]

It only descends because energy is transferred from the G force.

Right. That energy comes about because the mass is higher in a gravitational field and can be lowered. That available energy, PE=mgh, is called potential energy (PE.)

 

[exchemist]

I'll end the discussion here. You will never convince me that potential energy is real and I will never convince you that force transfers its own internal energy. Have a nice day.

No further questions, m’lud.

 

[Pinball1970]

No further questions, m’lud.

A little disappointed with his defense given his credentials.

 

[exchemist]

A little disappointed with his defense given his credentials.

Ahem, yes indeed. I think the BS should be taken in its alternative meaning.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

A little disappointed with his defense given his credentials.

Mainstream physics has developed over hundreds of years with millions of contributors. I have had and developed my ideas over 30 years by myself. Even from this discussion I have slightly progressed in my understanding of my own ideas.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Ahem, yes indeed. I think the BS should be taken in its alternative meaning.

The discussion was friendly until your stupid and ignorant remark.

 

[exchemist]

The discussion was friendly until your stupid and ignorant remark.

No further questions.

 

[James R]

Wizard of Whatever:

Could potential energy be as real as any other energy since it can be transferred.

Yes. Potential energy is as "real" as any other energy.

If true this would imply that any force that can increase energy is actually transferring real energy hidden in the force.

Force is what it is. Nothing is "hidden" in it. It's just a concept. Energy is a different concept.

I can see how this must be true since energy can not be created or destroyed.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premises.

Energy is the one of the basic substance of the physical universe as I see it.

Energy is not a substance. It is an accounting system, essentially. Energy is just a number (or a bunch of numbers) associated with a system.

If a force increases the kinetic energy of a mass, where does that energy come from if energy cannot be created or destroyed.

The energy comes from the force doing work on the mass.

In the crane weight example, no real energy is transferred, only the potential of the weight to gain kinetic energy from falling.

Potential energy is as "real" as any other energy. What do you mean when you talk about "real" energy? What would "fake" energy be?

The gain in kinetic energy is created by the gravitational force.

There is very little, if any, gain in kinetic energy when a crane lifts a mass. Most of the work done by the lifting force goes to increasing the potential energy of the system.

Where does that force get the energy to transfer?

From the chemical energy in the fuel that drives the motor that turns the drum that reels in the cable on the crane.

Energy is essentially a substance when bound into mass.

That is incorrect. Energy is not a substance.

I see no reason not to call it a substance in general.

Didn't you study any physics in that BS degree you claim you have?

Are not photons energy on its' own.

They are not.

Gravitational and other potential energy concepts were invented because it was not understood that force transfers its' own real internal energy when it acts.

No. Potential energy concepts were invented because it was discovered that they were useful. Why were they useful? Because it turns out that energy is a conserved quantity under suitable conditions, and conserved quantities are very useful in physics, as you would have learned if you had studied some physics in your BS degree.

I have a BS in physics...

How did you get a BS in physics with such a poor understanding of energy? You didn't buy your BS degree from a degree mill, did you? Did you have to do any work for your degree? Which tin pot university did you attend? I would like to advise people to avoid sending their kids there to learn physics, if the graduates produced by the physics teaching there are as ignorant about physics as you obviously are.

... and went for an Ms until I decided my time was better spent elsewhere.

What do you do with your time now? I hope your physics training is irrelevant to how you earn your current income.

I understand the mainstream view quite well.

Who do you think you're fooling with that nonsense?

Are you actually an adult? You sound more like a kid pretending to have a degree.

 

[James R]

I'll end the discussion here. You will never convince me that potential energy is real and I will never convince you that force transfers its own internal energy. Have a nice day.

Sucks when you find that you find that you're out of your depth in a conversation with people with actual knowledge about stuff, doesn't it? Wise decision to run away.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Sucks when you find that you find that you're out of your depth in a conversation with people with actual knowledge about stuff, doesn't it? Wise decision to run away.

I am not out of my depth. I understand the mainstream view quite well. I just don't agree with it. As for the people, they are just as closed minded about physics as they are about other subjects. I am not running away. Just realizing I can't educate such close minded people to new possibilities.