Please save the tigers
- Thread starter Chatha
- Start date
Animal rights organizations have made careers of making the most horrible accusations against owners of animals. Even when they used actual incidents to make their point, they turned the truth into lies by implying that all owners were like that. This is just plain fraud. It is also being deliberately hurtful to people who love and care for animals the most. It is no surprise when this deteriorates into forcing pet owners to give up their animals to be killed. This is their way of hurting owners worse.
Chatha, you represent and way oversell the viewpoint of organizations that have hurt a lot of animals and pushed them closer to extinction.
Chatha, you represent and way oversell the viewpoint of organizations that have hurt a lot of animals and pushed them closer to extinction.
I don't think anyone on this thread has ever said that captive breeding programs have ever hurt the population. What I am saying is that I think you should get some experience around mountain lions first before you consider just having one as a pet in your home. If this is your intention? I am not against this. But there's no way that you can start a breeding program in a house. So you have no argument about increasing the population and breeding them, etc.
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If I advocate breeding them, I must also advocate places for them to live.
If you advocate my getting some experience, why didn't you say so from the beginning?
What do you mean that no one has said that captive breeding programs have hurt the wild population? Do you just ignore Chatha's messages? I would understand if you did.
Captive breeding program has not hurt them, illegal captive breeding has
LOL I started this thread by bitching about illegal breeding?...may I direct you to my opening post?
I can't believe you are asking me that question. No, I can't believe it.
Whatever you call it, you are treating owners of tigers with all of the shabbiness and manufactured contempt that you can dream up. Then you get upset when someone calls you on it or gives it back.
You are trying for the appearance of moral superiority by gratuitous abuse.
You are trying for the appearance of moral superiority by gratuitous abuse.
You're right! I should have mentioned "experience" from the beginning, but the forum didn't lead in that direction. It also seemed like you were planning on keeping one as a domestic pet inside your house. But if you plan on providing it with the room that it/they need, along with protection from using its natural instinct to stalk prey - like your neighbors and nearby children - that's fine. These guys are really powerful and need to run. They sprint at 40 mph, can run up to 55 mph, jump over heights of 18 feet, but prefer to stalk. My Elkhound is a breed that was originally bred to hunt moose, bear and wolves, and I need to take her out to exercise (run) in the forest daily - that's when she's in her glory. I've clocked her on my speedometer running about 30 mph but she should be able to run faster. Wolves run about 40 mph. Cheetahs are said to run up to 70 mph.
I came across a short Panther Fact Sheet .pdf file that has a section on "Raising Kittens" that you might be interested in. It also talks a bit about "Legal Protection and Panther Programs": http://www.fpl.com/environment/endangered/pdf/panther.pdf
We just had a report on the news right now about a mountain lion stalking neighbors in Gilbert, Arizona, which is just outside of Phoenix. It probably came in from the Tonto Nat'l Forest near Roosevelt Dam. I've camped out there a lot and it's definitely cougar country. They're saying that for a couple months now the sightings have been growning around a local park that has a pond where many people go for fishing. Arizona Game and Fish has been called in to investigate, but found nothing. I'll keep you up-to-date on the reports and what they do - and hopefully what they don't do!
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Valich, I have decided that people who do not wish to work with your group, talk to them, or even be known to exist by your group have truly valid reasons and can be responsible people. Not the least of those reasons is when you started the misinformation thread about pitbulls needing to be banned because they are "killing machines."
I will grant that you might not mean to be a destructive force against wildlife. It does work out that way whether you mean it or not, and when you are and think that you aren't, it is at least as intractable. Then I also have to deal with the objections that you really mean well, that you are responsible people, that you are the experts, and who the hell am I to have a difference of opinion. Who the hell I am is the person who maybe owns a wolf or a cougar who is in a loving home, and some "official" from your team comes to my home and says that the animal must lose its home and probably die or be locked up in a place that hordes animals and doesn't love them. Your team will kill my animal if it is somehow outside of your team's specifications, and it cares more about its "rules" and "the law" and "authority" than it does about life. Once you decide against me, for whatever reason, after having bamboozled me into accepting the validity of your paradigm, a loving animal loses its life and I lose what I love. I only stand to lose by your participation in my life.
I will grant that you might not mean to be a destructive force against wildlife. It does work out that way whether you mean it or not, and when you are and think that you aren't, it is at least as intractable. Then I also have to deal with the objections that you really mean well, that you are responsible people, that you are the experts, and who the hell am I to have a difference of opinion. Who the hell I am is the person who maybe owns a wolf or a cougar who is in a loving home, and some "official" from your team comes to my home and says that the animal must lose its home and probably die or be locked up in a place that hordes animals and doesn't love them. Your team will kill my animal if it is somehow outside of your team's specifications, and it cares more about its "rules" and "the law" and "authority" than it does about life. Once you decide against me, for whatever reason, after having bamboozled me into accepting the validity of your paradigm, a loving animal loses its life and I lose what I love. I only stand to lose by your participation in my life.
Unbelievable!
Reading most of the posts by MetaKron I certainly understand why tigers (and many other species) are endangered. How can anyone, in their right mind, think that tigers in cages are better off than wild ones? Let's put it like this:
Would you want to be locked up in a cage, with no privacy, and having a large crowd watching you through the bars/glass? I think not.
And saying that the STF and IFAW are stupid and/or make no difference is just showing your own stupidity. Things take time to change, especially when it comes to changing the way humans see tigers. This can be seen when it comes to other species, like the wolf.
And what makes you think that tigers from farms would lower any prices? It costs thousands of dollars to raise tigers, while it only costs a few bucks to shoot or capture a wild one. Then there's the fact that the users of TCM prefer bones from wild tigers since they consider them being more powerful due to greater genetic diversity.
We humans must learn how to live alondside nature. These animals were here long before us, and they have more right to be here than any genetic fluke (read: human beings).
Reading most of the posts by MetaKron I certainly understand why tigers (and many other species) are endangered. How can anyone, in their right mind, think that tigers in cages are better off than wild ones? Let's put it like this:
Would you want to be locked up in a cage, with no privacy, and having a large crowd watching you through the bars/glass? I think not.
And saying that the STF and IFAW are stupid and/or make no difference is just showing your own stupidity. Things take time to change, especially when it comes to changing the way humans see tigers. This can be seen when it comes to other species, like the wolf.
And what makes you think that tigers from farms would lower any prices? It costs thousands of dollars to raise tigers, while it only costs a few bucks to shoot or capture a wild one. Then there's the fact that the users of TCM prefer bones from wild tigers since they consider them being more powerful due to greater genetic diversity.
We humans must learn how to live alondside nature. These animals were here long before us, and they have more right to be here than any genetic fluke (read: human beings).
I am not in a group or a member of a group (except for the AKC, AKCCHF (AKC Canine Health Foundation) and WWF), although I have to say I am somewhat affiliated with a government organization because my advisor is often called upon by them. Nor have I "decided against you" in any way. To the contrary, I have offered you support, have tried to inform you as best I can about cougars - and the dangers, yes - and have supplied you with numerous organizations that you can contact for help and support. I tried to find a club or forum that you could participate in but don't know of any. As I have said to you numerous times, I hope that you keep in touch with me if you do get one, only because this is a specialized area of interest to me - both personally and academically (it was a semester 6-month project). For a while there, in the past, I was also considering raising a purebred wolf as a domesticated animal/pet. I was thinking about raising one and then breeding it back to my female Elkhound. So we have a lot in common in this respect. I have been very honest. I started the Pit Bull forum only to see what others' reactions would be and only intervened once, I think, just to keep it going. Honestly, I haven't even read any of the posts on it yet - don't have the time - but just wanted to keep it going handy for future reference and research.
Valich, you don't seem to understand how much something like "pit bulls are killing machines" hurts me personally, and a lot of other people too.
Cksp1d, I've seen some pretty happy and pleasant tigers in cages. Generally they do quite well if you pair them off, because what they need most for an "enriched" life are each other and their human friends. That's something that you don't seem to know about animals. They are always happy when in contact with even one friend of any species. Those that aren't are loners anyway and can do quite well in a cage that lets them have some room and some privacy.
STF and IFAW are totally stupid and should be shut down.
Cksp1d, I've seen some pretty happy and pleasant tigers in cages. Generally they do quite well if you pair them off, because what they need most for an "enriched" life are each other and their human friends. That's something that you don't seem to know about animals. They are always happy when in contact with even one friend of any species. Those that aren't are loners anyway and can do quite well in a cage that lets them have some room and some privacy.
STF and IFAW are totally stupid and should be shut down.