Please Answer the Following Questions about my Friends death.

L

LeBlanc

Banned
Banned
Depressed over the death of friend on this Day.

I was just curious. this 19 yr old boy loved his girlfriend. it was their anniversary, so they were both sitting on the seawall of lake michigan watching the fireworks. the girl dropped a bottle of water into the lake, so her boyfriend apparently hung himself over the seawall to try and reach it with his foot (media says he jumped, girlfriend, parent of girlfriend and close friend said he reached, not jumped) he couldnt pull himself back up so the girl tried to pull him up but she wasn't strong enough, so he fell in. he started to scream but noone would help them. the girl said she tried to make it to him but he was 20 feet from shore and his head had gone under. he was trying to make it to some ladders to get out. the water was around freezing. shoreline temp being 0-1c. she watched him drown right in front of her at midnight.

however the biological mom said he didn't know how to swim, or that he 'could only doggypaddle' but could someone who only knew that acheive that distance with clothes, and a undercurrent? even if the water wasn't rough. the girlfriends mom said the boy didnt have a close relationship with his biological mother and he left at 15. and she said hed been swimming with them all summer, but there arent any photos on facebook aside from a waterpark where you cant swim in. but there was a pic of the mom on a boat in lake michigan, so did he swim in open waters before? idk. I'm confused and would like someones interpretation on this. apparently he put 'swimming' as one of his intrests on facebook? the girlfriend and him were dating for a year. but were friends for a while I think. the girlfriends mom said he was like a son to them, the girlfriend was mad at what the papers said.

someone said even someone who can't swim would've made it that far and he probably just splashed and panicked his way there and if he was in a pool a strong swimmer would not have made it? this boy was apparently really bright? Could he swim? Could he not swim? Good swimmer/bad swimmer? I am so confused and please answers only and no insulting comments because I will report them. This is a serious question as I partly knew those involved.
 
I am very sorry to hear of this incident with persons that you knew, LeBlanc. I live in the Yukon, Canada, and our large bodies of fresh water are extremely cold, even in summer, as many are glacier fed.

If you fall into such cold water, even with a personal flotation device, your life expectancy is under 20 minutes.

Here are some facts relating to the immediate effects of icy water on the human body and how quickly our ability to help ourselves fails. If one is unfortunate enough to gasp water into the lungs immediately, keeping one's head above water might become impossible, especially taking into consideration that they would be dressed for chilly weather and those layers of clothing become a drag as soon as they are saturated.

Cold Shock

On falling into cold water, cold receptors in the skin cause immediate physiological responses, the first of which is a “gasp” reflex. If this happens when your head is under water, you are in deep trouble.

Next, you begin to hyperventilate, within seconds, your heart begins to race, and your blood pressure spikes. Hyperventilation may make it difficult to get air into your lungs, leading to panic and further hyperventilation.

These symptoms can trigger cardiac arrest in susceptible individuals. Even healthy individuals will have difficulty keeping their airways above water without a flotation aid while undergoing these major physiological stresses.

The effects of cold shock normally peak within the first minute and stabilize very soon thereafter.

Cold Incapacity

After a few minutes, the muscles of your limbs are affected. Neuromuscular activity slows and body fluids literally congeal in the muscles.

You feel the effects first in your hands and fingers. Then the deeper tissues in your arms and legs cease to operate properly. It becomes more and more difficult to perform any tasks requiring manual dexterity, such as using flares or other survival equipment.

Survivors have reported that after a few minutes it was impossible to open a package of flares or to tie a knot in a line.

After ten minutes immersion in very cold water, your arms and legs will no longer respond to your will. Even experienced swimmers have difficulty co-ordinating breathing and swimming strokes; short swims may be impossible.

In heavy weather you have difficulty keeping your face out of the spray and you may not be able to avoid inhaling water.

You will certainly have difficulty keeping your airway above the water without the assistance of a flotation aid.

During these two periods, the major risk of death is from drowning, caused by the body’s reaction to cold water. Any water less than 15 C (59 F) will trigger these physical reactions, though the colder the water, the more severe the response. Some experts suggest that if you are in water that is warm enough not to trigger these physiological reactions, then your biggest problem will be shark attack instead.
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Most victims of cold water immersion actually die of drowning, not hypothermia—and many drowning victims were very close to safety when they died. For instance, the Canadian Safe Boating Council / SmartRisk Study showed that between 1991 and 2000, 41% of those who drowned while boating were within 10 meters of shore at the time. An additional 22% were within 10 to 15 meters of shore. A British study from 1977 showed that 55% of open water drownings occurred within 3 meters of safety!!! And two thirds of drowning victims were strong swimmers.
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http://www.shipwrite.bc.ca/Chilling_truth.htm

It would not matter at all if the boy had been an excellent swimmer. Cold water is extremely dangerous and incapacitating. :(
 
I don't understand what your question is LeBlanc could you just ask what it is that you want to know. If it is why he did not make it to the ladder I think scheherazade has given a good reason for him not to. Why people drown sometimes isn't always clear. Since this happened at midnight it could be he didn't know where the shore line was exactly and was disoriented in the freezing water. All you can do is help the friends and family deal with this tradgedy and by doing so you'll be helping yourself as well.
 
LeBlanc said:
I was just curious. this 19 yr old boy loved his girlfriend. it was their anniversary, so they were both sitting on the seawall of lake michigan watching the fireworks. the girl dropped a bottle of water into the lake, so her boyfriend apparently hung himself over the seawall to try and reach it with his foot (media says he jumped, girlfriend, parent of girlfriend and close friend said he reached, not jumped) he couldnt pull himself back up so the girl tried to pull him up but she wasn't strong enough, so he fell in. he started to scream but noone would help them. the girl said she tried to make it to him but he was 20 feet from shore and his head had gone under. he was trying to make it to some ladders to get out. the water was around freezing. shoreline temp being 0-1c. she watched him drown right in front of her at midnight.

however the biological mom said he didn't know how to swim, or that he 'could only doggypaddle' but could someone who only knew that acheive that distance with clothes, and a undercurrent? even if the water wasn't rough. the girlfriends mom said the boy didnt have a close relationship with his biological mother and he left at 15. and she said hed been swimming with them all summer, but there arent any photos on facebook aside from a waterpark where you cant swim in. but there was a pic of the mom on a boat in lake michigan, so did he swim in open waters before? idk. I'm confused and would like someones interpretation on this. apparently he put 'swimming' as one of his intrests on facebook? the girlfriend and him were dating for a year. but were friends for a while I think. the girlfriends mom said he was like a son to them, the girlfriend was mad at what the papers said.

someone said even someone who can't swim would've made it that far and he probably just splashed and panicked his way there and if he was in a pool a strong swimmer would not have made it? this boy was apparently really bright? Could he swim? Could he not swim? Good swimmer/bad swimmer? I am so confused and please answers only and no insulting comments because I will report them. This is a serious question as I partly knew those involved.
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Firstly, I am sorry for your loss.

Secondly, you are asking us to answer questions on something we don't really know about. No one here knows the circumstances of how this happened. We do not know if he could swim or not.

A lot of what you are recounting seems to be from 3rd and 4th parties.

My advice would be to ask those who were there and who knew him best.
 
Enmos said:
Why was he reaching for a bottle floating in water with his foot?
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I don't get that either. Why would you suspend yourself over freezing water to reach a bottle that was obviously out of reach in the first place?

:shrug:

I am sure there are witnesses who will say how it happened. It's not really our place to guess.

::Edit::

Google didn't help:

Woytoynik called 911 and told responding officers that she and her boyfriend were sitting on the edge of an embankment near the lake when her water bottle dropped in the water, according to a police report.

Hilling jumped into the water to try and retrieve the bottle but began struggling.

”I tried to make it to him but he was 20 feet away from shore and his head went under water,’’ Woytoynik said.

[Source]
​


Why would anyone go into freezing water near midnight to get a bottle of water?:bugeye: And even if he didn't jump in as you claim, why would anyone lean precariously over a seawall to reach a bottle water that had fallen into freezing water in the middle of the night?

Was alcohol or drugs involved?
 
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|| The posts above are originally from the thread "Depressed over the death of friend on this Day."


subject was skinny, 'nerdy' looking if you will, wore clothes and it happened in the dead of winter on a chicago seawall. the witness claimed the cold and fatigue/panic overtook him. there wasn't a current, but there was a suction/undercurrent going on at the location, especially during winters even if it's calm. he started to scream then his gf told him to swim to some ladders. he hung himself off the ledge to reach something that'd fallen in. but he didn't make it. the girl said he was 20 feet away and his head went under. she tried to get others to help but they didn't, so i assume this happened quite quickly. but im not sure

his mom said he could only doggy-paddle, but she only knew him up until he was 15, then he moved to his girlfriend's family, where they said he swam all summer with them. i think he swam in lake michigan but isn't that not for non-swimmers or bad swimmers? confused

Could he swim

why did he go under

if he couldn't, was he suicidal/murdered?

why did his mom say he couldn't if he could? then the others the complete opposite.
was he a bad/good swimmer

If he didn't doggy-paddle, then what swim stroke would he have used.
Would a non-swimmer/doggypaddler normally make it that far? for a non swimmer eg splashing to survive.

I'd like those answered....



She tried to make it to him but he was 20ft away from shore
noone in the boys bio family could swim and they were sort of red necks as well
the kid was allegedly really bright....at least when I knew him 6 months before he died..I am still deeply saddened by this, and NYE passing recently did not help.

I have since tried to contact the girlfriend (witness) and the girlfriend's mother, but for 2 days they have not replied despite an active account.

I asked this on another site only to get abuse from trolls who didn't even bother to answer the questions. So please take your time to answer them individually.... thank you very much..
 
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What do you want to know? Going into the cold water is a bad idea, he might have just slipped and fallen in. I can't say why he would try to get something in the water.
 
Question 1 - Could he swim. What type of swimmer, eg. good/bad, doggypaddle/freestyle, etc.

Question 2 - Why did he put swimming as an interest on facebook.

Quesiton 3 - Why did his own mother say he couldn't swim, (only paddle) yet others said the complete opposite?

Quesiton 4 - Why did he go under.

Question 5 - Why would an intelligent boy, non-swimmer HANG himself off of a un barred chicago seawall to reach a waterbottle that'd fallen in?

Question 6 - The girlfriend's mother says he'd been swimming with them many times (all summer) but the only pics of him in water were at an indoor waterpark, way too shallow to swim in.
 
Cold water is a factor, there is an immediate shock to the system, you can't take a deep breath, then you lose fine motor control, then hypothermia sets in, you can't think properly. Maybe he had hypothermia before he went in?

Edit: You didn't mention the water bottle. Perhaps he was just foolish for going after it and drowned from a combination of the shock and currents.
 
That's only Question 4 answered...could you please try and answer the others? I'd appreciate it.. the questions are in bold.
 
As I said, maybe he just made a foolish decision. Maybe alcohol or drugs were involved. Even a good swimmer isn't used to winter conditions. I used to swim in the ocean in Maine, and you could die from hypothermia in a matter of minutes, even in the summer time.
 
Well Question 4 and 5 are answered..but there's still others there, mainly regarding his swimming ability/what the girlfriend's mom said in comparison to the mother he left at 15.
 
Yes, but I find it much more reassuring for people to try to answer them..
*She tried to make it to him but he was 20 feet away and she watched him drown.
 
The Questions that remain....

Question 1 - Could he swim. What type of swimmer, eg. good/bad, doggypaddle/freestyle, etc.

Question 2 - Why did he put swimming as an interest on facebook.

Quesiton 3 - Why did his own mother say he couldn't swim, (only paddle) yet others said the complete opposite?


Question 6 - The girlfriend's mother says he'd been swimming with them many times (all summer) but the only pics of him in water were at an indoor waterpark, way too shallow to swim in.
 
How are we supposed to know if he can swim? It might actually be irrelevant, since the temperature of the water would affect even the strongest swimmer. Maybe he wanted to learn to swim, and it was an interest, but he hadn't learned yet.
 
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