Pay It Forward

North Cali Sammy

North Cali Sammy

Registered Senior Member
When I blew into town a couple years back, all I had was the t-shirt on my back, a pair of long shorts, and tennis shoes. That's after being released from prison. I had $20.00 gate money left in my pocket. Most of the money was spent on a train ride and bus ticket. It was late August yet a very cold night. I froze my butt off and didn't sleep. The next morning I went to the goodwill store and bought a pair of jeans and a hoody. That gobbled up my $20.00.

I found my way to a local church that fed me breakfast and also gave me a coat and a FEMA blanket. I was happy to receive them, knowing that my nights on the streets would be a little more comfortable. Months later I was given a bed in a shelter. I slept like a rock. When you're sleeping on the streets, people will wake you up for a smoke, alcohol, or just for the hell of it, I guess. It's hard sleeping on the streets with one eye open.

You can go either way while homeless: you can become bitter or you can count your blessings, no matter how small they might be. Now that I'm back on my feet, I've been looking at ways to return charity to those who gave charity to me. I had some extra money this month, so I purchased a bulk package of sleeping bags for the shelter, to pass out to those without a bed. Next month I will do the same for the church that fed me and supplied me with a blanket and coat. I'm also considering volunteering my time at the church.

There are resources out there for the homeless, but they are stretched thin. There are limited beds in the shelters; not everybody gets one. I am thankful for all that was given and everything I have received, no matter how small. Even some of the homeless gave what they could.

I guess what I'm saying is that we should always be aware of the blessings in our lives, and that we should bless others with kindness and charity. It won't always be appreciated, but possibly it will open their eyes to the idea that somebody cared enough to help.
 
North Cali Sammy said:
. Now that I'm back on my feet, I've been looking at ways to return charity to those who gave charity to me. I had some extra money this month, so I purchased a bulk package of sleeping bags for the shelter, to pass out to those without a bed
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This is why I am a plastic humanist, an intellectual (self styled;)) humanist not a Human humanist, the ones that actually count.
I donate every month for intellectual causes.
Really important stuff like keeping creationism out of schools and a few others but I do not want to really get my hands dirty.
Being honest about it, it hurts me and I cannot afford to get emotionally involved so I prefer bank transfer sanitizer version.

Quick anecdote.

I played sports every Saturday morning and same drag through the city took me past a few homeless.
Sometimes a bit of change would change hands sometimes not.
I noticed a new face, young scared looking girl, she looked out of place, too clean. Not been on the street long.
I got her a sandwich and some orange juice.
Saturday after she had a black eye, some guy just kicked her in the face while she was asleep.
Probably thought it was funny on way back from a club drunk, may not have even realised it was 19, 20 year old woman, kid to me.
She was dirty now, same clothes, she fit right in.

Makes me rage thinking about it.

Why did she come all the way from Poland for that? What was so bad? I suppose we have milder winters.
She fit in real quick, not long before she finds something to get through the days.
People can be real dumb POS, I would love to meet the hero who kicked a sleeping kid in the face.

Some people can put feelings aside and walk round Manchester with a bed linens and a cup of soup, I can't do that.
 
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North Cali Sammy said:
[...] I found my way to a local church that fed me breakfast and also gave me a coat and a FEMA blanket. I was happy to receive them, knowing that my nights on the streets would be a little more comfortable. [...]
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And churches or their affiliated havens are usually the only instrument of altruism available in small towns or communities. Especially applies if one lacks the proper identification and documents, mailing address, etc for the welfare arm of government bureaucracy to be receptive to citizens in plight.

Though Marxists were surely the first to pioneer such, some contemporary atheists are apparently getting into the game, despite ensuing criticisms even from their own. But I expect those would remain confined to larger metropolitan areas, along with other secular options coordinated (with the many faith-based ones) under whatever overarching initiative for the unsheltered.

I'd actually choose a traditional do-gooder outlet over a "nouveau ideology" one (barring the former being the extension of a notorious cult). A cultural Christianity status consequently enables me to handle classic preaching a lot better than soapbox anti-Western socioeconomic propaganda or decolonial diatribes.
_
 
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Pinball1970 said:
A nice idea, like Karma? No reason the world should work like that and evidence it does.
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It's generally considered a part of human nature to help others.
The idea that if we give help then we'll receive help is really just confirmation bias.

Think of it this way: you help someone. Time passes. You need help. You receive help.
The confirmation bias is that you attribute the time you receive help as being in response to that time you helped someone else, ignoring all the times you needed help before then but weren't helped. So you're only looking at the successes, not the failures.

It's certainly true that if noone helped anyone then noone would be helped, and conversely that if everyone helped people all the time then people would always be helped. Therefore, to be helped, someone needs to help. And the more people help, the more people will be helped.
So other than contributing to the number of people that help, and the number of people that will be helped, a single instance of helping with the idea that that help is "paid forward" will do nothing, statistically, to the chances that you will be helped at any particular given time.
Any instances of such that are attributed to "karma" or other such ideas can thus be put down to confirmation bias.

Cynical, aren't I? ;)
 
Sarkus said:
It's generally considered a part of human nature to help others.
The idea that if we give help then we'll receive help is really just confirmation bias.

Think of it this way: you help someone. Time passes. You need help. You receive help.
The confirmation bias is that you attribute the time you receive help as being in response to that time you helped someone else, ignoring all the times you needed help before then but weren't helped. So you're only looking at the successes, not the failures.

It's certainly true that if noone helped anyone then noone would be helped, and conversely that if everyone helped people all the time then people would always be helped. Therefore, to be helped, someone needs to help. And the more people help, the more people will be helped.
So other than contributing to the number of people that help, and the number of people that will be helped, a single instance of helping with the idea that that help is "paid forward" will do nothing, statistically, to the chances that you will be helped at any particular given time.
Any instances of such that are attributed to "karma" or other such ideas can thus be put down to confirmation bias.

Cynical, aren't I? ;)
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No that is a different thing, I agree that altruistic behaviours are inherent in us via Evolution.
However, a kind act is not somehow stored up in the spiritual ether to be rewarded later, like a karmic score card.
There is no ether, the universe doesn't care, we may receive kindness at some point because we evolved to co-operative.
 
Pinball1970 said:
However, a kind act is not somehow stored up in the spiritual ether to be rewarded later, like a karmic score card.
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Is that not what WoW suggested, at least in practice with:
Wizard of Whatever said:
I have found that if you help when you can, you will be helped when you need it.
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and to which you then replied with:
Pinball1970 said:
A nice idea, like Karma? No reason the world should work like that and evidence it does.
Click to expand...

Notice the part I've bolded.
Or was that to be taken as "and there's no evidence it does"?


Otherwise you're really just confusing me with your apparent agreement/disagreement.
 
No matter what you call it, accident, random, fate, karma, free will, universal connection, etc. it is just my personal experience in life. Maybe just a local not a global type phenomenon. It may not be that way for all.
 
Sarkus said:
Is that not what WoW suggested, at least in practice with:

and to which you then replied with:


Notice the part I've bolded.
Or was that to be taken as "and there's no evidence it does"?


Otherwise you're really just confusing me with your apparent agreement/disagreement.
Click to expand...
Noted that was clumsy of me, let's start over.

Altruism in apes and other social animals is a biological fact.

Karma is spiritual as a concept and has no basis in fact.
 
Wizard of Whatever said:
No matter what you call it, accident, random, fate, karma, free will, universal connection, etc. it is just my personal experience in life. Maybe just a local not a global type phenomenon. It may not be that way for all.
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Accident, random - Yes.
Free will -Not sure
Fate, Karma -No.
Universal connection - in terms of physics, yes
 
Pinball1970 said:
This is why I am a plastic humanist, an intellectual (self styled;)) humanist not a Human humanist, the ones that actually count.
I donate every month for intellectual causes.
Really important stuff like keeping creationism out of schools and a few others but I do not want to really get my hands dirty.
Click to expand...

Just a quick question, are they trying to teach creationism in UK schools?

Pinball1970 said:
Being honest about it, it hurts me and I cannot afford to get emotionally involved so I prefer bank transfer sanitizer version.

Quick anecdote.

I played sports every Saturday morning and same drag through the city took me past a few homeless.
Sometimes a bit of change would change hands sometimes not.
I noticed a new face, young scared looking girl, she looked out of place, too clean. Not been on the street long.
I got her a sandwich and some orange juice.
Saturday after she had a black eye, some guy just kicked her in the face while she was asleep.
Probably thought it was funny on way back from a club drunk, may not have even realised it was 19, 20 year old woman, kid to me.
She was dirty now, same clothes, she fit right in.

Makes me rage thinking about it.

Why did she come all the way from Poland for that? What was so bad? I suppose we have milder winters.
She fit in real quick, not long before she finds something to get through the days.
People can be real dumb POS, I would love to meet the hero who kicked a sleeping kid in the face.

Some people can put feelings aside and walk round Manchester with a bed linens and a cup of soup, I can't do that.
Click to expand...

I have one homeless mate I've known for 11 years, I give him money if I'm carrying any. I've told him he'll need to bring a electronic payment method for when they get rid of cash. He's broke just about every bone in his body, he's been in terrible states. He got a flat but other homeless people were following him there and crashing. They took the flat off him. To be frank, despite the weather and violence, he prefers the street.
 
davewhite04 said:
Just a quick question, are they trying to teach creationism in UK schools?
Click to expand...
Faith schools yes.

I watched a pathetic attempt by a biology teacher at an Islamic faith school, trying to teach the Theory of Evolution to a bunch of kids, knowing full well she way probably playing to the camera.
Interviewed afterwards not one child accepted the Theory.


davewhite04 said:
They took the flat off him. To be frank, despite the weather and violence, he prefers the street.
Click to expand...
I can believe that, they become institutionalised of a sort and cannot take the burden.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Faith schools yes.

I watched a pathetic attempt by a biology teacher at an Islamic faith school, trying to teach the Theory of Evolution to a bunch of kids, knowing full well she way probably playing to the camera.
Interviewed afterwards not one child accepted the Theory.
Click to expand...

They should start off with something like, "do you know why you are different to your mam and dad? Evolution".

Pinball1970 said:
I can believe that, they become institutionalised of a sort and cannot take the burden.
Click to expand...

I asked him once was he happy with life off the street(when he had another flat)? He said he can't get used to living a more normal life. I've told him countless times he ain't getting any younger he needs a home... I think he'll be on the street for life, or maybe until it's a cashless society.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Faith schools yes.
Click to expand...
Just to elaborate: in state-funded faith schools they are allowed to teach it as part of their "Religious Education" curriculum, but not as a valid scientific theory.
Private faith schools get far more autonomy, so can pretty much teach what they want, although the government does give guidance. Quite a few promote creationism, as well as climate denial, as being fact.
 
Sarkus said:
Just to elaborate: in state-funded faith schools they are allowed to teach it as part of their "Religious Education" curriculum, but not as a valid scientific theory.
Private faith schools get far more autonomy, so can pretty much teach what they want, although the government does give guidance. Quite a few promote creationism, as well as climate denial, as being fact.
Click to expand...
Jewish Orthodox, Islamic and some Christian too? I would have to check.
My catholic school taught it in the 1980s, not very well but it had a go.
My catholic college did a much better job.
 
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