Parapsychology is incompatible with physics

[Quantum Quack]

Just as a matter of general interest and an indication of the reason for lack of consistent evidence. Let me ask you this simple question.

"If you knew someone was able to read your mind with out asking for your consent, how would that change what you were thinking about?"

 

[Seattle]

If you were delusional how would you know?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Is abstraction a problem for you?
one of the first signs....hmmmm (joking)

 

[rakovsky]

The ideas of psi (precognition, psychokinesis and telepathy) violate well-established laws of physics.

The evidence says psi is physically impossible:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology#Physics

So how do parapsychologists explain this? They just ignore it?

Hello, Mike.
You are asking a good question. I got into some of the scientific issues in my thread here that I invite you to:
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/ho...stament-prophecies-and-how-do-we-know.158973/

One way to address this is quantum entanglement, a phenomenon that Einstein called "spooky".
The issue is that two particles of matter separated over far distances could remain somehow entangled so that impacting one particle can directly correlate to a change in the other particle, even though there is no apparent connection causally between the two events of change and impact.

Scientists also have a theory that this entanglement relates to the possibility of retrocausality. Rather than thinking about the past as really vanished, it is more accurate to perceive it as part of a time-space continuum where the past still exists and so does the future but they are on different segments of the continuum.

Another issue is the theory that simply because science does not have an explanation or believes that something is impossible according to its laws does not mean that a "psi" ability - an ability for which there is no scientific explanation - actually is impossible. There are quite a number of abilities that meet this definition of "psi" that nonetheless have a following of acceptance among scholars. Take for example the ability to tell time. Some persons are able to time their brains or minds or bodies so that they can get up very close to an exact time each day. They could also be able to tell exactly when a minute has passed. Currently there is no scientific agreement for how this process works.

Another example of a psi ability is electromagnetism. Supposedly electromagnetic fields can have an impact or influence on a person even though there is no known recepticle for picking up and sensing the electromagnetic changes in humans.

A third example, one which especially concerns animals, is called animal navigation where animals have sometimes trekked thousands of miles to return home.

Really all you need is to show one psi ability to be correct in order to show that a psi ability is not "per se" impossible even if science would consider it unexplained based on known scientific laws.

 

[origin]

Another issue is the theory that simply because science does not have an explanation or believes that something is impossible according to its laws does not mean that a "psi" ability - an ability for which there is no scientific explanation - actually is impossible. There are quite a number of abilities that meet this definition of "psi" that nonetheless have a following of acceptance among scholars. Take for example the ability to tell time. Some persons are able to time their brains or minds or bodies so that they can get up very close to an exact time each day. They could also be able to tell exactly when a minute has passed. Currently there is no scientific agreement for how this process works.

There is evidence that people can detect the passage of time. Some people are very good at it. That isn't some sort of magic.

 

[C C]

The ideas of psi (precognition, psychokinesis and telepathy) violate well-established laws of physics. The evidence says psi is physically impossible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology#Physics So how do parapsychologists explain this? They just ignore it?

If science actually was overseen by a central establishment with a universal iron-hand, and this objection of "lack of mechanism" (physics-wise) was part of its decrees rather than the scattered opinions of individuals... Then "parapsychologists" would seemingly need to do little more than point out the inconsistency of said institution or governing consensus.

Which is to say, that establishment would have no problem bringing up the topic of a lack of precursors for making something like "the paranormal" possible. And yet when it comes to the radical novelty of "experience" (the multi-mode manifestations of consciousness [see footnote]), that administration would oppositely be content to declare "experience" a brute add-on which is excused from having to incrementally fall out of pre-existing physical characteristics, building-blocks, and constraints. (Which, BTW, are unavailable apart from intrusions of pseudoscience, thus the hard problem of consciousness).

Instead shifting responsibility (for the abrupt emergence or conjuring of "experience") from the actual matter components of a brain or computer (and their index of accepted properties and regulating principles) to the conceptual label of "processes" (of a specific kind or nature). The latter being an artificial, linguistic idea superimposed on the structural / relational activities of the concrete matter entities for functional analysis and identification / categorization / descriptive modeling purposes. IOW, that establishment ironically granting causal and generative powers to "physical" in the abstract sense rather than the "physical stuff" itself.

- - - - - - -

• [footnote] Erwin Schrödinger: The world is a construct of our sensations, perceptions, memories. It is convenient to regard it as existing objectively on its own. But it certainly does not become manifest by its mere existence. Its becoming manifest is conditional on very special goings-on in very special parts of this very world, namely on certain events that happen in a brain. That is an inordinately peculiar kind of implication, which prompts the question: What particular properties distinguish these brain processes and enable them to produce the manifestation? Can we guess which material processes have this power, which not? Or simple: What kind of material process is directly associated with consciousness? --What is Life? Mind and Matter

 

[Michael 345]

Scientists also have a theory that this entanglement relates to the possibility of retrocausality. Rather than thinking about the past as really vanished, it is more accurate to perceive it as part of a time-space continuum where the past still exists and so does the future but they are on different segments of the continuum.

Is there a reference to these Scientist and any papers on their theory and how it incorporates entanglement please?

Another issue is the theory that simply because science does not have an explanation or believes that something is impossible according to its laws does not mean that a "psi" ability - an ability for which there is no scientific explanation - actually is impossible.

Very true

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

However to prove something is impossible throws up more than a gazillion possibilities of why it (whatever you designate it to be) is impossible

And it is not the role of science to prove the impossibility of of something

You make the claim you provide the proof

Currently there is no scientific agreement for how this process works.

Tell the hoards of Scientist who are looking for a research project which can lead to a Nobel Prize

Really all you need is to show one psi ability to be correct in order to show that a psi ability is not "per se" impossible even if science would consider it unexplained based on known scientific laws.

True one example would rock Science to its core

None found in at least 130 years so there must be a few rocks still left unturned

Keep looking for the rocks

 

[Quantum Quack]

Does zero (nothingness, nul, zilch, non-existence etc.) exist?
The most important constant in the universe... does it exist?

Science relies on zero as a universal constant yet can it prove zero exists? - nope!!

 

[Michael 345]

Does zero (nothingness, nul, zilch, non-existence etc.) exist?
The most important constant in the universe... does it exist?

Science relies on zero as a universal constant yet can it prove zero exists? - nope!!

I have contend in many of my post that prior to the Big Bang NOTHING was the order of the day

I listed it under TOTAL INFINITE VOID

However those who appear to understand physics more than me said quantum fluctuations poped in and out of existence

Somehow a collection of fluctuations combined to bring about the Big Bang and a few billion years later here we are

I do wonder what is ahead of the outward tip of the light beam heading outwards from the furthest galaxy which we can
see

Would that be my TOTAL INFINITE VOID?

(VOID except for our Universe or as some speculate multiple Universe)

We know what we call space is not truly empty

Even if matter is almost nonexistent it is still full of radiation

But could the same be said of the VOID between Universes?

 

[Quantum Quack]

I have contend in many of my post that prior to the Big Bang NOTHING was the order of the day

I listed it under TOTAL INFINITE VOID

However those who appear to understand physics more than me said quantum fluctuations poped in and out of existence

Somehow a collection of fluctuations combined to bring about the Big Bang and a few billion years later here we are

I do wonder what is ahead of the outward tip of the light beam heading outwards from the furthest galaxy which we can
see

Would that be my TOTAL INFINITE VOID?

(VOID except for our Universe or as some speculate multiple Universe)

We know what we call space is not truly empty

Even if matter is almost nonexistent it is still full of radiation

But could the same be said of the VOID between Universes?

All good thoughts... and using your own metaphor, "That there, is one hell of a large non-rock you are looking for"

The point though, that I was attempting to make, was that before science can claim the methodological high ground it needs to show that it actually uses that method and until it can prove zero, nul, non-existence to exist in physics it can not claim the high ground with the integrity that it may wish to. IMO.

That is not to suggest that science is somehow inferior or other wise incompetent. It is really about looking at limitations and how the scientific method is necessarily limited to events that can be repeated, predicted and have materially measurable consequence.

Many events occur in this universe that are not predictable nor are they repeatable, especially when dealing with self animated organisms. Does this lacking relegate those events to un-provable, un-explainable and thus paranormal in nature?
For surely regardless of science's inability to predict etc, those sorts of events do and have occurred.

 

[Michael 345]

The point though, that I was attempting to make, was that before science can claim the methodological high ground it needs to show that it actually uses that method and until it can prove zero, nul, non-existence to exist in physics it can not claim the high ground with the integrity that it may wish to

I'm not sure that any Scientist is looking to prove NOTHING exist

It is really about looking at limitations and how the scientific method is necessarily limited to events that can be repeated, predicted and have materially measurable consequence.

That seems to sum up the scientific method nicely

To make it even more, in one way restrictive, it must be repeatable by others than the claimant

Many events occur in this universe that are not predictable nor are they repeatable, especially when dealing with self animated organisms.

Arrh now we move out of the realm of science so science rules can no longer apply

Take for example one misnomer

Sports science

Excuse me

The physics in any sport can be explained by science but that is not what those who sprout the words mean

The proponents prattle on about motivation and being in the zone babble

THAT IS NOT SCIENCE AND AS YOU CORRECTLY INTIMATED NON REPEATABLE

The answer is so simple I will leave you to work out why

Happy to give my thoughts if asked but really

Does this lacking relegate those events to un-provable, un-explainable and thus paranormal in nature?

Short answer

No

Long answer

As above think about it and work it out

For surely regardless of science's inability to predict etc, those sorts of events do and have occurred.

Like UFOs try not to understand something which seems to be unexplainable as something explainable

Look up in the sky

Is it a bird?

Is a plane?

No it's a UFO

Which of course means it comes from outer space

There's a leap which can easily clear tall buildings

 

[river]

All good thoughts... and using your own metaphor, "That there, is one hell of a large non-rock you are looking for"

The point though, that I was attempting to make, was that before science can claim the methodological high ground it needs to show that it actually uses that method and until it can prove zero, nul, non-existence to exist in physics it can not claim the high ground with the integrity that it may wish to. IMO.

That is not to suggest that science is somehow inferior or other wise incompetent. It is really about looking at limitations and how the scientific method is necessarily limited to events that can be repeated, predicted and have materially measurable consequence.

Many events occur in this universe that are not predictable nor are they repeatable, especially when dealing with self animated organisms. Does this lacking relegate those events to un-provable, un-explainable and thus paranormal in nature?
For surely regardless of science's inability to predict etc, those sorts of events do and have occurred.

They do , and will always .

 

[Michael 345]

Does this lacking relegate those events to un-provable, un-explainable and thus paranormal in nature?

If event happens once

Yes unprovable

Yes unexplainable

Paranormal may be which then makes it unprovable and unexplainable

For surely regardless of science's inability to predict etc, those sorts of events do and have occurred.

Yes

Which still makes them

Yes unprovable

Yes unexplainable

Paranormal may be which then makes it unprovable and unexplainable

If the event happens more than once and can be observed it might be taken out of the above

 

[river]

Parapsychology is incompatible with physics because physics is not applicable to the paranormal .

Parapsychology studies what does not manifest as a physical , thing .

Physics is the study of physical things .

Parapsychology is the study of the non-physical , things .

Hence no surprise that they are , incompatible with each other .

Yet both have their , reality .

 

[rakovsky]

Is there a reference to these Scientist and any papers on their theory and how it incorporates entanglement please?

Retrocausality demonstrated with quantum entanglement.
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/05/retrocausality-demonstrated-with.html

Retrocausality Could Send Particles’ Information Back to the Future
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/retrocausality-could-send-information-back-to-the-future/

Experiment Reaffirms Quantum Weirdness
https://www.quantamagazine.org/20170207-bell-test-quantum-loophole/

"Currently there is no scientific agreement for how this process works."



Tell the hoards of Scientist who are looking for a research project which can lead to a Nobel Prize

I don't need to, as they are already aware of this lack of agreement.

"No area of physics causes more confusion, not just among the general public but also among physicists, than quantum mechanics." ~ from: Tangled Up Entanglement, The New Yorker
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/tangled-up-in-entanglement-quantum-mechanics

Really all you need is to show one psi ability to be correct in order to show that a psi ability is not "per se" impossible even if science would consider it unexplained based on known scientific laws.

True one example would rock Science to its core

None found in at least 130 years so there must be a few rocks still left unturned

Keep looking for the rocks

A psi ability is defined as an ability for which science has not come to an agreed explanation based on known scientific processes and information available. There are several examples in real life.

One is electromagnetism and its effect on humans and whether human beings are able to sense that they are in a strong electromagnetic field.

• The researchers caution that the results suggest this human protein has the capability to work as a magnetosensor; however, whether or not humans use it in that way is not known.

http://www.livescience.com/14694-humans-sixth-sense-magnetic-fields.html

There is not a consensus on this, or on how humans would be able to detect the fields. However, it is considered that Electromagnetism does have an effect on humans and that humans could be able to sense it.

Humans have ability to detect Earth's magnetic field
http://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...have-ability-to-detect-Earth-s-magnetic-field

Humans have a magnetic sensor in our eyes, but can we detect magnetic fields?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...-but-can-we-see-magnetic-fields/#.WPZf32eP7IU

10 Things an Electromagnetic Field Can Do to Your Brain

Electromagnetic fields, or electric shocks, have induced specific hallucinations in people. Those who are exposed to them, even in laboratory settings, have caused people to complain about a feeling of people following them, talking to them, or watching them.​

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5851828/10-things-an-electromagnetic-field-can-do-to-your-brain

This is why I wrote earlier in this thread, message 104:

Another issue is the theory that simply because science does not have an explanation or believes that something is impossible according to its laws does not mean that a "psi" ability - an ability for which there is no scientific explanation - actually is impossible. There are quite a number of abilities that meet this definition of "psi" that nonetheless have a following of acceptance among scholars.

Another example of a psi ability is electromagnetism. Supposedly electromagnetic fields can have an impact or influence on a person even though there is no known recepticle for picking up and sensing the electromagnetic changes in humans.

 

[Dinosaur]

I have not read all the Posts to this Thread & apologize to those who might have posted remarks similar to the following.

From Andy1033 Post #7

. . . . To work out the sun, they will never get close. Scientific understanding of the sun, will always just be a faith, so a religion, of scientific dogma. . . . .[ /b]Sums up science, and you will never understand the sun.

Nonsense!! You are the one who does not understand the sun.

Astrophysicists understand the sun quite well. Its heat is due to nuclear fusion at the core.

The gravitational force of the sun creates intense heat & pressure at the core.

Note that heat is actually a measure of particle motion. Atoms at the core of the sun are moving at high speed (as indicated by the core temperature). Pressure due to gravity at the core keeps the particles from escaping prior to there being high speed collisions.

The high speed collisions cause nuclear fusion, which releases large amounts of energy.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I have not read all the Posts to this Thread & apologize to those who might have posted remarks similar to the following.

From Andy1033 Post #7Nonsense!! You are the one who does not understand the sun.

Astrophysicists understand the sun quite well. Its heat is due to nuclear fusion at the core.

The gravitational force of the sun creates intense heat & pressure at the core.

Note that heat is actually a measure of particle motion. Atoms at the core of the sun are moving at high speed (as indicated by the core temperature). Pressure due to gravity at the core keeps the particles from escaping prior to there being high speed collisions.

The high speed collisions cause nuclear fusion, which releases large amounts of energy.

Just thoughts and with all due respect...
There is an aspect of the sun that is not understood and until the nature of "life" itself is understood will not be.

Para psychology is about self-animated lifeforms and their interaction with each other and material substances.
Astrophysics is about material substance only.

To draw the direct relationship between sunlight, heat, liquid water etc. and "life" is not hard to do.
When science can explain the relationship between sun and life perhaps it can claim to understand the sun.

One could suggest that the relationship between life and the sun is parapsychological. (paranormal ) could they not?

Mankind has been worshiping the sun throughout history and I would suggest that worship is for good reason. ( even if that reason is not understood by the worshiper.)

 

[Michael 345]

One could suggest that the relationship between life and the sun is parapsychological. (paranormal ) could they not?

Yes they could

Point?

 

[spidergoat]

until it can prove zero, nul, non-existence to exist in physics it can not claim the high ground with the integrity that it may wish to.

Why would they have to? No particular theory depends on it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why would they have to? No particular theory depends on it.

All theories depend on it!
All values depend on relativity to zero ( nothingness )
10 is only 10 because 10-10 = 0
other wise 10 could be any value.
Zero provides the universal constancy, that provides consistency for everything ( order)..

I could go on but I will probably get "no where" doing so...

Zero or nothingness, is the absolute universal constant...

Michael 345 ?
Go any asinine comments to make?