Parallel Selves?

[Write4U]

Write4U,

Could a complex mathematical formula give rise to self-awareness in the universe of reality?

First, that is a compound question, and I'll need to parse it to offer my POV.

ok, Universal mathematics need not be self-aware to function mathematically, but yes, there is evidence that a self-aware organism can be formed by complex mathematical chemical functions under specific local conditions This specific local phenomenon needs not be connected to a greater Universal self-awareness, but only to its implacable mathematical functions, i.e.. Universal constants.

Always keep in mind that Bio-Chemistry employs a mathematical probabilistic function and unless you also want to assign intelligence to chemistry, you are already one level removed from the mathematical essence and functions of the universe. The Universe needs not be self-aware to function as it does. Nor does Chemistry.

 

[Retribution]

I actually encountered that Jim story myself, once.

Cold called a former supervisor regarding a reference for a job I was applying for.
Back in the day, I thought we had a "connection".

It turned out she didn't even remember me.

Don't think it had anything to do with parallel universes. Probably more along the lines that she didn't care to.

 

[krash661]

^^ I am enjoying this conversation-- please take your pathetic shenanigans to another topic. thank you.

 

[Retribution]

Me?

I would have thought that even pseudoscientists might have been open to mundane explanation in order not to go too far off the reservation.
Although I suppose that particular detail might be one of those things separating science from pseudoscience.

In which case, I apologise and leave you to your.... thoughts.

 

[krash661]

might have been open to mundane explanation in order not to go too far off the reservation.


In which case, I apologise and leave you to your.... thoughts.

your comment was simply an attempt at being funny(more of a ridicule-meant, and nothing more), no one cares for your pathetic " revenge on this site" shenanigans.
again, i am enjoying this conversation.

 

[Retribution]

Well, you go on enjoying it then.
You aren't exactly what anyone might regard worthwhile opposition.

Later, tater.

 

[krash661]

Well, you go on enjoying it then.
You aren't exactly what anyone might regard worthwhile opposition.

Later, tater.

okay, thank you for your insignificant to anything, piss-ant opinion, and also thank you..

 

[Bowser]

The only time I've experienced a parallel self would be in my dreams.

 

[DaveC426913]

"Many years ago when I first moved to Wyoming, I became good friends with Jim, my next-door neighbor. After a couple years I moved out of the neighborhood and we lost track of each other.

I ran into Jim again at a party about four years ago. We were having a friendly chat when I mentioned the time we were next-door neighbors. A blank look came over his face. He said he’d never lived in that house. In fact, he said, he didn’t even know me back then. I was stunned and speechless.

You might enjoy Robert Sawyer's latest novel Quantum Night. A guy discovers a missing six months of his life. When he starts looking into it, he discovers he was not the same person then that he is now. Things get very weird when he discovers a quantum consciousness phenomenon (consciousness itself is a product of electron superposition in certain parts of the brain) affecting everyone on Earth - inlcuding the leaders of the superpower nations with their fingers on the nuclear launch buttons.

 

[Write4U]

The only time I've experienced a parallel self would be in my dreams

There is only ONE self, which consists of a physical body and a mind. The body is only a vehicle. OTOH the mind creates the mental image of the self, Even if you see yourself in a dream, it would be a product of your mind processing information.

In fact, one does not have to be asleep to see (imagine) oneself riding a bike or driving a car. But that does not mean there are two selves, just that our mind is able to form an image of ourselves engaged in some activity.

 

[Bowser]

There is only ONE self, which consists of a physical body and a mind. The body is only a vehicle. OTOH the mind creates the mental image of the self, Even if you see yourself in a dream, it would be a product of your mind processing information.

In fact, one does not have to be asleep to see (imagine) oneself riding a bike or driving a car. But that does not mean there are two selves, just that our mind is able to form an image of ourselves engaged in some activity.

I've actually been someone else in my dreams--other identity. I've played numerous roles in my dreams. Totally out of my daytime character. Tell me there are others who experience the same.

 

[Write4U]

I've actually been someone else in my dreams--other identity. I've played numerous roles in my dreams. Totally out of my daytime character. Tell me there are others who experience the same.

That is the beauty of our minds, we can think abstractly, but that does not mean the characters you imagine are real, they are a product of the mental ability of the brain to visualize non-existent things. I saw myself as a dragon rider once. But that does not mean dragon riders exist, except as an abstract image. If we look at a painting by Picasso, is there any physical resemblance to existing people with their nose at the back of their head? Clearly he saw then that way, as an abstraction in his mind.

 

[Bowser]

I saw myself as a dragon rider once. But that does not mean dragon riders exist, except as an abstract image.

I wasn't suggesting they were real parallel personalities...or maybe they are. Posting on this thread gave me reason to look it up on Google, but I couldn't find anything relevant. Dissociative identity disorder popped up, but then again, that deals with multiple personalities during waking hours. As for my dreams, I find them entertaining for the larger part...and a curiosity. The other night I was 27 again and surrounded by young attractive women who were cooing for my attention.

Parallel selves? I would think that dreams are the closest we will get to realizing such.

 

[Write4U]

I wasn't suggesting they were real parallel personalities...or maybe they are. Posting on this thread gave me reason to look it up on Google, but I couldn't find anything relevant. Dissociative identity disorder popped up, but then again, that deals with multiple personalities during waking hours. As for my dreams, I find them entertaining for the larger part...and a curiosity. The other night I was 27 again and surrounded by young attractive women who were cooing for my attention.

Parallel selves? I would think that dreams are the closest we will get to realizing such.

Actually, I believe that the answer can be found in our mirror neural network, which is the foundation to *empathy* (an aspect of the mind).

 

[Bowser]

Actually, I believe that the answer can be found in our mirror neural network, which is the foundation to *empathy* (an aspect of the mind).

Empathy implies a lot, and I believe it is subjective in reality. I would think the foundation was already in place rather than simply a mirror. In other words, you must relate from personal experience to the suffering of others based on your own experience with the same. As an example, I've experienced hunger, so I empathize with the hungry. I've slept in the rain, so I empathize with the homeless. I've lost someone close, so I empathize with those who experience a loss. However, some stuff is so far out in left field, there's no way I can relate to that individual. Is empathy a parallel self? I suppose it might qualify, but I kinda believe it's more an internal reflection of ones own experiences.

 

[Write4U]

Empathy implies a lot, and I believe it is subjective in reality. I would think the foundation was already in place rather than simply a mirror. In other words, you must relate from personal experience to the suffering of others based on your own experience with the same. As an example, I've experienced hunger, so I empathize with the hungry. I've slept in the rain, so I empathize with the homeless. I've lost someone close, so I empathize with those who experience a loss.

I sympathize with you in those emotions, but that is not the same as empathy. Empathy is not feeling sorry, it is feeling the physical *pain* of hunger, even if you are not hungry.

However, some stuff is so far out in left field, there's no way I can relate to that individual. Is empathy a parallel self? I suppose it might qualify, but I kinda believe it's more an internal reflection of ones own experiences.

You're right, the *mirror neural network* has the ability to trigger the same physical reactions in the observer. Have you ever winced watching someone get hurt? Why wince? Your MNN was in synch with what was happening in the other's brain.

Remarkably, the brain in the observer fires the same neurons as the person experiencing the actual pain and elicits the same physical biochemical response, a mirrored action.

Perhaps that's why porn is so effective. We don't sympathize with the subjects, we physically empathize.

 

[Bowser]

Empathy is not feeling sorry, it is feeling the physical *pain* of hunger, even if you are not hungry. You're right, the *mirror neural network* has the ability to trigger the same physical reactions in the observer. Have you ever winced watching someone get hurt? Why wince? Your MNN was in synch with what was happening to the other's brain.

You can have an emotional response, but the physical pain is absent without actually being injured, in my opinion. Seeing someone who is injured does often provoke a reaction, but the actual pain is absent. You may cringe as a result of another persons injury, but can you honestly say you feel their pain?

Remarkably, the brain in the observer fires the same neurons as the person experiencing the actual pain and elicits the same physical response, a mirrored action.

I had a tooth removed recently--very deep root. And yes, the dental assistant told me that she was sympathetic during the procedure. Noneteless, there's no way she FELT what I was feeling at the time. But she could empathize with me knowing the difficulty of the removal. She said that if it had been her, should would want to be sedated.

Perhaps that's why porn is so effective. We don't sympathize with the subjects, we physically empathize.

Sexual arousal is quite the opposite of pain. Pretty much it's preparation for better things to come. You might have an erection, but it's not the same feeling your partner (if a woman) is experiencing. It's a reaction to stimuli.

 

[krash661]

just to stir the shit-pot, think about the concept behind of the movie "The One(2001)"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267804/

 

[Write4U]

You can have an emotional response, but the physical pain is absent without actually being injured, in my opinion. Seeing someone who is injured does often provoke a reaction, but the actual pain is absent. You may cringe as a result of another persons injury, but can you honestly say you feel their pain?

Subconsciously your mind does. You may not feel the actual pain but your brain produces the same chemical reaction as IF you were really in pain.

A mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another.[1][2][3] Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in primate species

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

In one sense this could be construed that all people have at least some parallel brain functions.

 

[Bowser]

Subconsciously your mind does. You may not feel the actual pain but your brain produces the same chemical reaction as IF you were really in pain.

Facial expressions, cringing...yeah, I can agree with that. However, the actual pain is absent, IMO. We may mirror a response to what we are observing, but still, it's not completely the same as actually feeling the physical pain. A guy at work skewered his hand accidentally with a metal rod. I can relate to that in the sense that it makes me cringe at the thought, but it's not the same as actually feeling the pain.

But I think we are nitpicking over a fine line here. I agree with you that we do mirror what we see. My best example would be the reflexive yawn one might experience after watching another person yawn.