On vaccines, Covid 19 and vaccine efficacy

O

Olga

Valued Senior Member
Moderator note: This thread was split from another thread, here:

Why do people ignore evidence, and what actually changes minds?

Why do people ignore evidence, and what actually changes minds? https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2025/12/why-do-people-ignore-evidence-and-what-actually-changes-minds/ EXCERPTS: In 2020, amidst the torrent of pandemic misinformation, a tweet claimed that a Covid-19 vaccine would implant tracking...
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Pinball1970 said:
Which we did but the OP is why people don't listen to reason, specifically scientific issues like MMR, COVID safety in this case.
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У нас был такой известный политик, лидер одной из партий, по фамилии Жириновский. Он постоянно делал прививки от КОВИДА, сделал их 8 штук, но всё равно умер от этого заболевания. А у моих соседей умерла родственница после того, как сделала прививку. Я не антипрививочница, все положенные прививки мне сделали ещё в детстве, но вот от этих ковидных много людей пострадало. И ещё от гриппа тоже бесполезные и даже неполезные прививки. В нашем церковном приходе священник несколько лет назад настоятельно посоветовал прихожанам сделать прививки от гриппа. Сделали почти все. И именно те, кто сделал, как раз они и переболели гриппом в тот год, причём тяжело переболели, а кто не делал, те не заболели. Так что, не все прививки полезны и хороши, а некоторые даже вредны.
 
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Olga said:
A few years ago, the priest at our parish strongly advised the parishioners to get flu shots. Almost everyone got them. And it was precisely those who got them who got the flu that year, and got seriously ill, while those who didn't got them didn't get sick. So, not all vaccinations are beneficial or good, and some are even harmful.
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There's a basic problem with your small sample analysis: the people in the parish most likely to get flu shots may be also the older folks who have weaker immune systems and health. Younger people with stronger immune systems (or robust elders) are generally also the group who doesn't bother with flu shots. This is a basic problem with drawing simple conclusions from hearsay. The older people may have gotten protection from ONE PARTICULAR STRAIN of flu, thanks to shots, but then got quite ill from another strain. It may be, in fact, a situation where fewer of them died or got very ill, thanks to protection from the one strain of flu.
 
TheVat said:
There's a basic problem with your small sample analysis: the people in the parish most likely to get flu shots may be also the older folks who have weaker immune systems and health. Younger people with stronger immune systems (or robust elders) are generally also the group who doesn't bother with flu shots. This is a basic problem with drawing simple conclusions from hearsay. The older people may have gotten protection from ONE PARTICULAR STRAIN of flu, thanks to shots, but then got quite ill from another strain. It may be, in fact, a situation where fewer of them died or got very ill, thanks to protection from the one strain of flu.
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Так а смысл тогда делать прививку от гриппа, если штаммов много, и вирусы постоянно мутируют?
 
Olga said:
Так а смысл тогда делать прививку от гриппа, если штаммов много, и вирусы постоянно мутируют?
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Agencies like the WHO work with scientists to come up with the best viral candidates globally. The "seeds" are then given to groups who develop and test the vaccines. There is not just one, they develop for the most dangerous. My last flu jab was trivalent before that quadrivalent, two A and two B strains. I got flu this year and it lasted for about 24-48 hours and was not severe. Prior to getting the jab I got flu around 2007 and thought I was dying. Influenza kills about 2000 people a year in the UK.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Agencies like the WHO work with scientists to come up with the best viral candidates globally. The "seeds" are then given to groups who develop and test the vaccines. There is not just one, they develop for the most dangerous. My last flu jab was trivalent before that quadrivalent, two A and two B strains. I got flu this year and it lasted for about 24-48 hours and was not severe. Prior to getting the jab I got flu around 2007 and thought I was dying. Influenza kills about 2000 people a year in the UK.
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Может, вам следует повысить свой иммунитет, Пин?
 
Olga said:
Может, вам следует повысить свой иммунитет, Пин?
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Actually the best scenario happened to me, I was vaccinated twice then caught COVID Delta strain in November 2021. I was in bed for three days but I had no lung issues which was my worry (i am asthmatic)
It was nothing compared to 2007.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Actually the best scenario happened to me, I was vaccinated twice then caught COVID Delta strain in November 2021. I was in bed for three days but I had no lung issues which was my worry (i am asthmatic)
It was nothing compared to 2007.
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Ты не болел ковидом? У нас почти все им переболели, кто то легко, даже не заметив, а некоторые умерли. Причём, знакомая старушка, которой было на тот момент далеко за 90, переболела "на ногах", а другие, молодые и крепкие, умерли.
 
Olga said:
Ты не болел ковидом? У нас почти все им переболели, кто то легко, даже не заметив, а некоторые умерли. Причём, знакомая старушка, которой было на тот момент далеко за 90, переболела "на ногах", а другие, молодые и крепкие, умерли.
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Yes, it is an epidemiological inevitably. Once the scientific community realised what they were dealing with, everyone on the planet was going to get it.
A lot of factors involved and COVID ticked most of the boxes.
 
TheVat said:
Erm.... that's what flu vaccines do, ninotchka.



It helps your body fight off the worst ones. As Pin's reply detailed.
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А почему Жириновскому не помогли 8 прививок от Ковида?
 
Olga said:
Why didn't 8 Covid vaccinations help Zhirinovsky?
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Because no medical treatment or vaccine is 100% effective. We are not all clones. Or the same age. Or have identical environments. Some vaccines, however, have been effective enough to save millions of lives (and in some instances eliminate a disease, like smallpox or two out of three strains of polio).
 
TheVat said:
Because no medical treatment or vaccine is 100% effective. We are not all clones. Or the same age. Or have identical environments. Some vaccines, however, have been effective enough to save millions of lives (and in some instances eliminate a disease, like smallpox or two out of three strains of polio).
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Теват, я против прививок ничего не имею. Но я за проверенные прививки, а прививки от Ковида проверяли сразу на людях, потому что времени не было долго проверять. Из-за этого некоторые умирали от самих прививок. И сами прививки были очень тяжёлыми.
 
Olga said:
But I'm for proven vaccines, and the Covid vaccines were tested on people right away because there wasn't enough time to do the testing. Because of this, some died from the vaccines themselves. And the vaccines themselves were very dangerous.
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Are you talking about Russia? Because this was not true in the US. Vaccine went through three rigorous clinical trial stages in the US, and was built on decades of messenger RNA research.
 
TheVat said:
Are you talking about Russia? Because this was not true in the US. Vaccine went through three rigorous clinical trial stages in the US, and was built on decades of messenger RNA research.
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I think one of the Chinese vaccines was withdrawn
 
TheVat said:
Are you talking about Russia? Because this was not true in the US. Vaccine went through three rigorous clinical trial stages in the US, and was built on decades of messenger RNA research.
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Я не знаю, Теват. Я в прививках не разбираюсь. Говорили, что брали вирус, убирали у него шипы, и типа так делали вакцину. Все привыкли, что вакцина - это ослабленные, или убитые вирусы, которые затем вводятся в организм. А здесь нечто искусственно сломанное, и многие боялись это себе вводить.
 
TheVat said:
Are you talking about Russia? Because this was not true in the US. Vaccine went through three rigorous clinical trial stages in the US, and was built on decades of messenger RNA research.
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I can't post the link to the paper right now. Just this from the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: What do we know about China's coronavirus vaccines?

Sinovac and Sinopharm jabs are being used in many countries that are seeing a surge of infections.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Google Ai

"Key Efficacy Data
Efficacy results varied across different trials and regions, but generally fell below the high rates of Western mRNA vaccines:
Sinovac (CoronaVac): Results from different countries showed wide variations. A Brazilian trial reported an efficacy rate as low as 50.4% against symptomatic cases, barely over the 50% threshold for regulatory approval by the World Health Organization (WHO). Other trials in Turkey and Indonesia reported higher, but still varying, interim results (91.25% and 65.3% respectively).
Sinopharm: Efficacy for the Sinopharm vaccine was estimated by the WHO at around 79% against symptomatic disease, based on combined age groups.
By comparison, the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines demonstrated efficacy rates of around 90% or higher against symptomatic infections in initial trials. "
 
exchemist said:
Oh I think there will always be a residue of people you can't reach. The chief thing is to get a solid majority of the population to grasp the issue and support the resulting action. Then peer pressure will kick in and, apart from the inevitable recalcitrants, you can get your policy implemented.
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Tyranny of the majority.
 
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