Olga's questions about blowing up the ̶S̶u̶n̶ Earth

[DaveC426913]

EDIT: Apologies, I made this thread for Olga. I swear it said "blow up the Sun", not "blow up the Earth". I have corrected the read as best I can butI can't delete this first post.

I have a few questions:

It is a fascinating subject.

1. What would happen to the solar system if the Earth suddenly disappeared

Just a nitpick. The Sun cannot suddenly disappear, so:

(for example, was blown to pieces by explosions)?

Good, yes.

OK the sun explodes. Its matter goes flying apart in all directions, expanding rapidly (not speed light rapidly, but rapidly).

2. How will the orbits of the remaining planets change?

Nobody on Earth will notice anything at all for eight minutes.
After eight minutes we will see the explosion. The sun expands on our sky, fragmenting and whatever.

Nothing will happen to Earth's orbit, yet.

First, that exploded mass doesn't just magically disappear; it is still there, and still pulling on the Earth.

Newton proved that, of one is sufficiently far way from a mass - whether than mass is solid or distributed loosely - one can treat the mass as if all of it is at the centre.

In other words, the Earth experiences gravity from an exploded sun exactly as if the sun has not exploded. (see diagram T=6 in illo)

This is true as long as all the mass is still on the same side of the Earth - i.e. all the mass is till sunward.

Once the sun's remains have expanded so that some of it has passed Earth's orbit (93 million miles) only then is there any mass pulling anti-sunward, only then does Earth bering to experience gravitational effects of an exploded sun. (see diagram T=20 in illo)

3. How will the galaxy change as a result of changes in the solar system?

It won't. The glaxy is a very dynamic system, with stars exploding all the time, and it is vast.

4. Can we consider that a planet left its orbit "by itself"

It is always in orbit - unless it has achieved escape velocity and is on a course out of the system.

if it left its orbit,

Orbits change. Vircular orbits can be modified into elliptical orbits.

or was scattered into fragments,

All the fragments would follow the original orbit, but begin spreading out into a ring.

 

[Pinball1970]

We are sure it's Olga right?

If the earth vanished the moon would possibly go into orbit around the sun I guess?
All the other planets would be subject to some perturbation however small.

 

[DaveC426913]

We are sure it's Olga right?

If the earth vanished

I'm sorry. I swear it said if the Sun vanished.

the moon would possibly go into orbit around the sun I guess?

Yes. An elliptical orbit, depending on where the Moon was when the Earth exploded.

All the other planets would be subject to some perturbation however small.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have a few questions:
1. What would happen to the solar system if the Earth suddenly disappeared (for example, was blown apart by explosions)?

Very little. Earth's mass has a tiny effect in the solar system. We could detect it in slight changes in the orbits of other nearby planets.

2. How would the orbits of the remaining planets change?

Mercury and Venus orbit would alter slightly. Mars, less. The other planets a tiny bit.

3. How would the galaxy change as a result of changes in the solar system?

Far, far too small.

4. Can a planet be considered to have deorbited "on its own"

No. It requires either a force from within the planet, or the influence of a nearby planet.

if it deorbited, or was blown apart, by a man-made disaster?

Not really.

Even if Earth were blown to smithereens, it would stay in its orbit. It would smear out into a ring around the Sun, a little like Saturn's rings.

The only way to change its orbit is to direct the energy in one direction, like a rocket.

 

[Olga]

EDIT: Apologies, I made this thread for Olga. I swear it said "blow up the Sun", not "blow up the Earth". I have corrected the read as best I can butI can't delete this first post.



It is a fascinating subject.


Just a nitpick. The Sun cannot suddenly disappear, so:


Good, yes.

OK the sun explodes. Its matter goes flying apart in all directions, expanding rapidly (not speed light rapidly, but rapidly).


Nobody on Earth will notice anything at all for eight minutes.
After eight minutes we will see the explosion. The sun expands on our sky, fragmenting and whatever.

Nothing will happen to Earth's orbit, yet.

First, that exploded mass doesn't just magically disappear; it is still there, and still pulling on the Earth.

Newton proved that, of one is sufficiently far way from a mass - whether than mass is solid or distributed loosely - one can treat the mass as if all of it is at the centre.

In other words, the Earth experiences gravity from an exploded sun exactly as if the sun has not exploded. (see diagram T=6 in illo)

This is true as long as all the mass is still on the same side of the Earth - i.e. all the mass is till sunward.

Once the sun's remains have expanded so that some of it has passed Earth's orbit (93 million miles) only then is there any mass pulling anti-sunward, only then does Earth bering to experience gravitational effects of an exploded sun. (see diagram T=20 in illo)


View attachment 6964



It won't. The glaxy is a very dynamic system, with stars exploding all the time, and it is vast.


It is always in orbit - unless it has achieved escape velocity and is on a course out of the system.


Orbits change. Vircular orbits can be modified into elliptical orbits.


All the fragments would follow the original orbit, but begin spreading out into a ring.

Через какое время эти обломки снова соберутся в планету?

 

[James R]

How long will it take for this debris to reassemble into a planet?

That would depend entirely on the details of the explosion. It might never reform, or it might reform in part.

You'd have to specify what caused the explosion, how much energy was released in the process and more.

 

[Olga]

That would depend entirely on the details of the explosion. It might never reform, or it might reform in part.

You'd have to specify what caused the explosion, how much energy was released in the process and more.

Я представила, что если кто то наблюдает за далёкой планетой, и не знает, что на ней есть жизнь. Он определяет её химический состав, и всё такое прочее, и делает вывод, что планета стабильная и взорваться сама по себе не может. Но вдруг она неожиданно разлетается на куски, потому что сознательные существа, живущие на ней, начали ядерную войну, и взорвали планету. Можно ли считать разумную жизнь в этом случае некой особой силой, способной влиять на материю, как например, электромагнетизм, гравитация, и пр.?

 

[DaveC426913]

Can intelligent life in this case be considered some special force capable of influencing matter, like, for example, electromagnetism, gravity, etc.?

It seems pretty useless to label it that way.

Natural forces are simple and predictable. They can defined with simple mathematical formulae, such as F = G * (m1 * m2) / r².
You can't do that with civilizations.

 

[TheVat]

Can intelligent life in this case be considered some special force capable of influencing matter, like, for example, electromagnetism, gravity, etc.?

You are thinking of stupidity.

 

[TheVat]

But suddenly it suddenly flies apart, because conscious beings living on it started a nuclear war, and blew up the planet.

Nuclear weapons don't blow up planets, they do things like pulverize large landscape surfaces and send them up into the stratosphere and leave craters.

The chemical signature of the atmosphere would likely change to more CO2 (from massive oxidation of biomass) and less O2.

 

[Olga]

Nuclear weapons don't blow up planets, they do things like pulverize large landscape surfaces and send them up into the stratosphere and leave craters.

The chemical signature of the atmosphere would likely change to more CO2 (from massive oxidation of biomass) and less O2.

Ну это же гипотетическая задача. Оружия может быть много, оно может находится глубоко под поверхностью планеты, и оно может быть каким-нибудь ещё, вполне способным взорвать планету.

 

[Olga]

You are thinking of stupidity.

Обоснуйте.

 

[DaveC426913]

Justify.

I don't think you are asking the question seriously. I think you are just bored.

If you think a civilization blowing up a planet can be considered a "force" in any meaningful sense, I think you are going to need to justify that.

 

[Olga]

I don't think you are asking the question seriously. I think you are just bored.

If you think a civilization blowing up a planet can be considered a "force" in any meaningful sense, I think you are going to need to justify that.

Просто размышляла. Все же мечтают, что когда-нибудь человечество сможет жить если не вечно, то долго, и заполнит собой если не всю Вселенную, то по крайней мере всю галактику. И технологии будут на более высоком уровне, способные использовать большие энергии, чем сейчас. Сможет ли человечество в далёком будущем значимо влиять на остальную материю во Вселенной?

 

[DaveC426913]

Your question was "Can intelligent life in this case be considered some special force capable of influencing matter..."

 

[Olga]

Your question was "Can intelligent life in this case be considered some special force capable of influencing matter..."

Что странного в этом вопросе?

 

[Killjoy]

I imagined that if someone observes a distant planet, and does not know that there is life on it. He determines its chemical composition, and all that, and concludes that the planet is stable and cannot explode on its own. But suddenly it suddenly flies apart, because conscious beings living on it started a nuclear war, and blew up the planet. Can intelligent life in this case be considered some special force capable of influencing matter, like, for example, electromagnetism, gravity, etc.?

No, because all the forces/elements/&tc. required to destroy the planet already existed. It merely fell to the "conscious beings" to figure out how to employ them in order to commit the single noble act which anything "conscious" is capable of: destroying itself to rid the Universe of an aberrant abomination.

 

[Olga]

No, because all the forces/elements/&tc. required to destroy the planet already existed. It merely fell to the "conscious beings" to figure out how to employ them in order to commit the single noble act which anything "conscious" is capable of: destroying itself to rid the Universe of an aberrant abomination.

Так ведь этих сознательных существ создала сама Вселенная?

 

[Olga]

No, because all the forces/elements/&tc. required to destroy the planet already existed. It merely fell to the "conscious beings" to figure out how to employ them in order to commit the single noble act which anything "conscious" is capable of: destroying itself to rid the Universe of an aberrant abomination.

Силы то существовали, но они не могли бы сами по себе внести изменения в процессы, которые происходят с помощью силы разума. Например, разрушить какое-нибудь материальное тело, астероид хотя бы. Поэтому мне и стало интересно, можно ли считать разум силой?

 

[Killjoy]

But these conscious beings were created by the Universe itself?

True, but not as a result of intent. They were "created" merely by the interaction of already existing elements, forces, phenomena, &tc.

The forces did exist, but they could not by themselves make changes to the processes that occur with the help of the power of the mind. For example, destroy some material body, an asteroid at least. That is why I became interested, can the mind be considered a force?

A phenomenon, perhaps, but not a force. A couple or three squirts of chemicals... ...a few watts of electricity... ...a wrong turn down an evolutionary dead end... ...there's your human mind for you.