В Бога.
Objectivity.
- Thread starter Wizard of Whatever
- Start date
Why?
Станет легче жить.
That doesn't strike me as a good argument for believing something that isn't true, Olga.
Тогда для чего жить, Джеймс, если впереди ничего? Как в камере смертников, сидеть и ждать, что вот опять кого-нибудь выведут на расстрел.
Is a belief in any god subjective or objective?
If it is subjective then do the millions of,eg Catholics around the world share a subjective belief or does each "Catholic" have their own subjective belief?
Do,in fact subjective beliefs and objective beliefs bleed into each other so that the demarcation line is actually fuzzy in this case?
BTW is the tendency of powerful people to mistake their subjective reality for an objective one a malign driver of human affairs?
If it is subjective then do the millions of,eg Catholics around the world share a subjective belief or does each "Catholic" have their own subjective belief?
Do,in fact subjective beliefs and objective beliefs bleed into each other so that the demarcation line is actually fuzzy in this case?
BTW is the tendency of powerful people to mistake their subjective reality for an objective one a malign driver of human affairs?
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Live for what you have here and now, of course.
Life isn't a practice run for the afterlife. If this is all we get, then we should make the most of this life while we have it. Life becomes more valuable, not less, when you believe there's no afterlife.
Использовать по максимуму - это как? Что я должна сделать? Пустится во все тяжкие, вино, наркотики, беспорядочный секс? Любое дело всегда должно иметь цель. Какая цель у нашей жизни, кроме всего вышеперечисленного?
Olga:
There's no way I can summarise ideas about what it means to live a good life here. Some ancient Greek philosophers had some good ideas about that, and a lot more has been said and written on the subject since then.
Why would you want somebody else to tell you your purpose in life?
Maybe your God's purpose for you is to provide an example to others of what not to do!
One thing I would suggest is that you don't just live to please yourself. Be kind to other people. Help others. Most meaning for human beings is found in interactions with other human beings, ultimately.
There's no way I can summarise ideas about what it means to live a good life here. Some ancient Greek philosophers had some good ideas about that, and a lot more has been said and written on the subject since then.
That can lead to a superficial and temporary kind of happiness, but it doesn't last and it can end up being harmful. I wouldn't recommend it. But plenty of people have tried it.
It's what you make it.
Why would you want somebody else to tell you your purpose in life?
Maybe your God's purpose for you is to provide an example to others of what not to do!
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Я и так помогаю чем могу. И не только людям. И у меня есть цель.
Я не пробовала. И не хочу. Спасибо родителям, которые дали мне правильное воспитание.
Я хочу посмотреть на это с научной точки зрения. Откуда взялось само понятие - Бог? Ведь если чего то не существует, то об этом никто и не думает. Но люди всегда были религиозными, даже первобытные люди. Почему?
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
That you are always right?
It's complicated.
It is very possible that beliefs in gods and spirits come as a sort of accidental side-effect of adaptive features of the human brain.
For example, other human beings are - naturally - very important to each of us. Our brains are adapted to look for people and to try to differentiate between effects that are deliberate products of human beings and effects that are the products of natural processes. We are also wired to work out to put together chains of cause and effect and to work backwards to deduce causes from effects.
A side-effect of this is that we don't just seek out signs of "agency" in human artifacts and events. We also look for it in nature. But we're not perfect agent-seekers. We make mistakes. A rock that looks a bit like a human face can be mistaken for a human face, from a distance. So can a cloud. Also, we can wrongly "infer" that a conscious agent "must" be responsible for something. That is especially common when we encounter mysteries that have no obvious explanation.
What causes lightning? Ancient people didn't know. What causes the tides? Ancient people didn't know. Why are people conscious? Ancient people didn't know, and we're still not sure even today. Why are there so many different kinds of animals and plants on the Earth? Ancient people didn't know.
Ancient people didn't know all these things - and modern people don't know everything either - one of the things they did (and we do) is to look for "agency" in things. We make guesses or try to work out answers to questions like "Is lightning caused by the deliberate choice of a conscious being, or is there a natural explanation for it that doesn't involve a conscious being?"
In the past, there were so many things that human beings did not know that they incorrectly jumped to conclusions, like "Wow! This seems really complicated. Surely, nature couldn't do this on its own. Therefore, a conscious agent must have caused it".
This is why gods started. What causes lightning? The lightning god. What causes the tides? The god of the ocean. Why are people conscious? Because a god gave us consciousness. How do we explain the diversity of life on Earth? A god made it all.
It is quite understandable that ancient peoples would come to assume that there must be special people-like spirits who control most things in the world. But there's really no excuse for human beings now to jump to the conclusion that a god must have caused everything that we don't yet have a full explanation for. We have enough experience as a species in being wrong about these things to have learned our lessons, so that we shouldn't keep making the same mistake.
However, these days, we have organised religions that continue to promote ancient ideas and notions of gods to fill the gaps in our knowledge. Religion is an industry, full of vested interests like every industry. And human beings keep buying into religion. Moreover, there's an efficient system in which parents are encouraged to indoctrinate their children into religion, rather than (or , in the better cases, in addition to) teaching them how to think.
I have really only touched on a couple of the reasons for why people "have always been religious". There are other reasons I haven't mentioned. But this is a start.
I wouldn't believe that without evidence.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Is there evidence that you are always right?
No. There's evidence that I'm often right, however.
Джеймс, почему у разных народов, на разных континентах, есть понятие о душе? И у древних греков, и у индейцев, и у австралийских аборигенов?
Ага, у нас часто руководители пишут на дверях для подчинённых:
Пункт 1. Начальник всегда прав.
Пункт 2. Если начальник не прав, смотри пункт 1.
Olga:
It's easy to make the mistake of assuming that something literally left the body when the person died. It is easy to conclude that the thing that went away must have been like the "person" who drove the bus (the body).
The question then arises: what happened to the bus driver?
Did they just cease to exist? That's hard to deal with, especially when the person who just died is your mother or your husband or your child.
Maybe they "went to a better place". There, that sounds much nicer, doesn't it? Less harsh. Maybe you'll get to go there yourself when you die, and see your mother/husband/child again.
Combine this kind of thinking with the ideas I outlined in my previous post. There are gods who control all the stuff we can't explain. We can't explain where the bus driver went, so probably a god is involved. The god takes the bus driver up into the sky, where he can live as a spirit, watching the Earth from afar or whatever.
Also, it's worth noting that people on different continents were all once from the same continent, if you trace things back far enough.
It's easy to notice that when a person dies, something about them gets lost. What is left is a body, but without the animation and the personality that it had before.
It's easy to make the mistake of assuming that something literally left the body when the person died. It is easy to conclude that the thing that went away must have been like the "person" who drove the bus (the body).
The question then arises: what happened to the bus driver?
Did they just cease to exist? That's hard to deal with, especially when the person who just died is your mother or your husband or your child.
Maybe they "went to a better place". There, that sounds much nicer, doesn't it? Less harsh. Maybe you'll get to go there yourself when you die, and see your mother/husband/child again.
Combine this kind of thinking with the ideas I outlined in my previous post. There are gods who control all the stuff we can't explain. We can't explain where the bus driver went, so probably a god is involved. The god takes the bus driver up into the sky, where he can live as a spirit, watching the Earth from afar or whatever.
Also, it's worth noting that people on different continents were all once from the same continent, if you trace things back far enough.
Почему человеку трудно с чем то смириться? Другие животные спокойно относятся к смерти сородичей. Какой смысл в этих переживаниях? Ну, с точки зрения науки?
Wizard of Whatever
Registered Senior Member
The mind has nothing to do with it. Inner awareness is not the mind.