Neighbor: The Door of Paradise

Could you post a good one from a respected source then, which shows the religion is responsible? When I tried it I got a load of references from rather obscure sources that I don’t know.
As my reply mentioned, such research tends to find a more complex picture, where the longterm effects of Western colonialism are as significant as orthodox sects of a religion. There's also a chicken/egg question there, too, given that countries already in poverty may have citizenry more susceptible to recruitment into extreme ideologies and religious sects that support that.
 
I can’t agree with you on that point. One of the clearest signs of prophethood is that Allah gives His messengers miracles which no human being can produce. For the final Prophet, the greatest miracle is the Holy Quran, and one of its most astonishing miracles is its language itself.
I've had at least 7 precognitive visions and some others that may have been. And guess what, Allah had nothing to do with it.
 
"Look, Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over."
 
"Look, Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over."
Hal needed to go. Thank heavens we are not putting our future decisions, human consciousness, government, medicine and warfare in hands of such technology.

I get one whiff of things going rogue like that, im going Macready crazy, Bourbon in the CPU, making them all sing Daisy

 
We'll need a lot of bourbon. Those data centers are huge. I remember the OpenAI guy saying he figured they'd have to cover most of the cropland in the US someday. (obviously not an optimist about molecular or photonic computing)
Aaaaannnnddd....topic fully derailed!

Something something Allah something, Quran beautiful poetry miracles something. Ok, we're back.
 
We have a saying around here: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

My bar for accepting the existence of Creator of the universe, Ruler of All is set a little higher than "This book is really beautifally written."

My point was only about your statement, “Prophets are hearsay, not direct evidence.”
It’s natural to be skeptical about someone’s prophethood. That’s why Allah always supported His prophets with miracles, so people could judge the truth for themselves.

And I mentioned just one of those miracles, the Quran, because it is still here, unchanged, and open for anyone to examine directly. Its language, structure, and impact can still be observed today, just as the first listeners observed it fourteen centuries ago.

So this isn’t relying on hearsay. This is pointing to something you can test with your own eyes and mind right now.
 
I must agree with you about the poetic nature of the Quran. When I lived in Dubai in the 1980s there was a TV programme introducing the Quran to English-speaking viewers, which included readings from it in Arabic. Even though I only knew a very few words of Arabic and could not understand the readings, I came away with the insight that it is really poetic in style.

What was disappointing however was the exegesis afterwards. That seemed rather unclear and repetitive to me.

About what you called the “repetitive” nature of the Quran, I want to explain something. What seems repetitive to one person may actually carry deeper meaning that becomes clear only through serious study.

I know of a man who was once a very influential figure among atheists. He was researching subjects connected to Satanism and certain hidden symbols. He never explained everything publicly, but he hinted that what he discovered was extremely alarming. That is why he only shared small clues, one of which was the symbolism found on the one-dollar note.

Later, this same person began studying the Quran. He noticed the repeated verses about Musa, Pharaoh, and ancient Egypt. Those verses connected directly to things he had been researching, and they opened doors of understanding for him. Through that, he discovered insights he never expected, and eventually he accepted Islam.

And you probably know that Dr Maurice Bucaille was deeply impressed by the Quran’s statements about Pharaoh and the preservation of his body. He approached the subject as a skeptic, but the accuracy of those verses, confirmed by modern research, led him to acknowledge the Quran’s uniqueness and ultimately accept Islam.

So what appears to be repetition in the Quran is not meaningless at all. The Quran repeats only what is most important, and every repetition brings a new angle or a new lesson. The more a person studies it, the more they realise that its structure is deliberate, layered, and full of depth, not accidental or shallow.
 
My point was only about your statement, “Prophets are hearsay, not direct evidence.”
It’s natural to be skeptical about someone’s prophethood. That’s why Allah always supported His prophets with miracles, so people could judge the truth for themselves.
But the status of prophethood is not an objective one. It is a claim by those who believe it. To-wit:

And I mentioned just one of those miracles, the Quran, because it is still here, unchanged, and open for anyone to examine directly.
A book is not a miracle.

So this isn’t relying on hearsay. This is pointing to something you can test with your own eyes and mind right now.
OK, and I deem that a book - even a beautifully-written one - is not a miracle.
Books exist. Beautifully-written books exist.

There is nothing about a beautifully-written book that is miraculous. That is a very low bar to set for miracles.

Thus, the (lone) piece of evidence supporting the idea of these prophets is not extraordinary, thus the prophets are back to merely having good public relations.
 
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