natural?

laladopi said:
What are you suggesting?
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It is anecdotal evidence, sure, but every person I have known that raged about the evil of this or that was projecting their own lust onto the rest of society. The religious leader that makes homosexuality a crusade, until it is discovered that he trysts with male whores in motel rooms. My hippie co-workers that warn about the anger in the world, but have very little control over their own rage. My Buddhist-pretender friends that preach against the desire for things because their own greed overcomes them. My disgust for online gaming because I know how easily addicted I would become to them if I relented.

I think we self-medicate our own foibles by raging against them publicly. We take our personal failings and generalize them onto the rest of society, and it makes us all a tad fanatical in the areas to which we are most vulnerable. I can't remember who said it, or the exact quote, but it went something like, "Only the things we recognize enrage us".

So, when I hear someone making the mistake of blaming greed on money, instead of recognizing that greed is a product of nature, and common in many animals, I tend to assume that the speaker has a lust for money coupled with no comprehension of what it is for. I'm afraid that this thread has done a lot to strengthen my bias.

Hoarding is a trait we evolved. It was greatly beneficial. No different than a squirrel burying more nuts than it could ever consume. Can this urge lead to unhealthy consequences? Of course. There are people who live in houses mounded with refuse. One recently died when a mountain of trash collapsed on them. And there are examples of financial excess aplenty.

Blaming money is ridiculous. You seem to think that if we got rid of money and lived in the stone ages we would all be happy people, living in harmony. That is so wrong that it verges on evil. Back then we killed one another at a higher rate than we do today. We raped our women. We died young and miserable. We lived with constant hunger and warring between tribes for limited resources. And whatever we did have, there were some among us that hoarded it, lied to get it, cheated for it, stole it, or killed for it.

Stop assuming that what is primitive is holy, that fallacy has led to more harm than any organized religion. Now please watch the following video in its entirety:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk&feature=PlayList&p=4818467289F42F9E&playnext=1&index=2
 
swivel said:
It is anecdotal evidence, sure, but every person I have known that raged about the evil of this or that was projecting their own lust onto the rest of society. The religious leader that makes homosexuality a crusade, until it is discovered that he trysts with male whores in motel rooms. My hippie co-workers that warn about the anger in the world, but have very little control over their own rage. My Buddhist-pretender friends that preach against the desire for things because their own greed overcomes them. My disgust for online gaming because I know how easily addicted I would become to them if I relented.

I think we self-medicate our own foibles by raging against them publicly. We take our personal failings and generalize them onto the rest of society, and it makes us all a tad fanatical in the areas to which we are most vulnerable. I can't remember who said it, or the exact quote, but it went something like, "Only the things we recognize enrage us".

So, when I hear someone making the mistake of blaming greed on money, instead of recognizing that greed is a product of nature, and common in many animals, I tend to assume that the speaker has a lust for money coupled with no comprehension of what it is for. I'm afraid that this thread has done a lot to strengthen my bias.

Hoarding is a trait we evolved. It was greatly beneficial. No different than a squirrel burying more nuts than it could ever consume. Can this urge lead to unhealthy consequences? Of course. There are people who live in houses mounded with refuse. One recently died when a mountain of trash collapsed on them. And there are examples of financial excess aplenty.

Blaming money is ridiculous. You seem to think that if we got rid of money and lived in the stone ages we would all be happy people, living in harmony. That is so wrong that it verges on evil. Back then we killed one another at a higher rate than we do today. We raped our women. We died young and miserable. We lived with constant hunger and warring between tribes for limited resources. And whatever we did have, there were some among us that hoarded it, lied to get it, cheated for it, stole it, or killed for it.

Stop assuming that what is primitive is holy, that fallacy has led to more harm than any organized religion. Now please watch the following video in its entirety:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk&feature=PlayList&p=4818467289F42F9E&playnext=1&index=2
Click to expand...


wrong.
 
swivel said:
It is anecdotal evidence, sure, but every person I have known that raged about the evil of this or that was projecting their own lust onto the rest of society.
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every person you have known, exactly do you know for a fact they share the same ideals and philosophy as I. Do you even understand what my point is rather just assuming things. Think about it, I do not lust money, everyone that lives in America "needs" money. To live, eat, have a shelter, protection, education, medical care. All these things are being pain from your wallet and those of the tax payers. I appreciate money. Do not get me wrong. But there are qualities about money to some people to get lost in it.

The religious leader that makes homosexuality a crusade, until it is discovered that he trysts with male whores in motel rooms. My hippie co-workers that warn about the anger in the world, but have very little control over their own rage. My Buddhist-pretender friends that preach against the desire for things because their own greed overcomes them. My disgust for online gaming because I know how easily addicted I would become to them if I relented.
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You do even know where I am coming from, Using assumption and judgement make you ignorant. I am not a hypocrit, absurd. I don't know whether your giving a lecture or being ignorant.

I think we self-medicate our own foibles by raging against them publicly. We take our personal failings and generalize them onto the rest of society, and it makes us all a tad fanatical in the areas to which we are most vulnerable.
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Assuming I don't have money and a good job for someone my age.
I do not worry about my "expenses" for If I do as I do I will be fine.
I am among a group. Not a single working human.

"Only the things we recognize enrage us".
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So be oblivious? That makes no sense. I still have no idea what point you are trying to get across to me, I'm not learning anything from this lecture.


So, when I hear someone making the mistake of blaming greed on money, instead of recognizing that greed is a product of nature, and common in many animals, I tend to assume that the speaker has a lust for money coupled with no comprehension of what it is for. I'm afraid that this thread has done a lot to strengthen my bias.
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Lol, I'm glad your bias is strengthen, whatever makes you stronger.

Hoarding is a trait we evolved. It was greatly beneficial. No different than a squirrel burying more nuts than it could ever consume. Can this urge lead to unhealthy consequences? Of course. There are people who live in houses mounded with refuse. One recently died when a mountain of trash collapsed on them. And there are examples of financial excess aplenty.
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So be conservative? Don't share? "We" have an extrordanary intellect and skills.
Also the ability to come together and communicate as a whole, other animals lack such things to the extent we have done.


Blaming money is ridiculous. You seem to think that if we got rid of money and lived in the stone ages we would all be happy people, living in harmony. That is so wrong that it verges on evil.
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I'm not specifically blaming money. I do not believe we should get rid of all forms of money.

"Evil" how so?
 
Swivel is right on, especially in "Stop assuming that what is primitive is holy, that fallacy has led to more harm than any organized religion." without a doubt.
 
laladopi, I meant no offense. I began by admitting that my opinion was based on limited, anecdotal evidence. I do not pretend to know you and would love to think that someone out there violates my previous experiences with people.

In my dealings I have noticed that the rabidly religious call everyone else "Sinners" because of thoughts that they have which they assume everyone else is having. I live in the United States and I do not see rampant greed. Most of the people I know work as little as they can in order to make ends meet. They are not out working 80-100 hours a week to pile up as much cash as they can. They are barely scraping by and seem to be happy with their lives.

I'm glad you enjoyed the video. The world keeps on getting better and better and we need to learn to appreciate it. A call for the "Wild" is to beg for trouble. Rousseau was wrong about everything.
 
swivel said:
In my dealings I have noticed that the rabidly religious call everyone else "Sinners" because of thoughts that they have which they assume everyone else is having.
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Even though when they go to church the first thing their preacher will remind them of is that they're all sinners too. For them to call any group of people sinners does not serve the purpose of distinguishing them from themselves.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
Even though when they go to church the first thing their preacher will remind them of is that they're all sinners too. For them to call any group of people sinners does not serve the purpose of distinguishing them from themselves.
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I don't think their purpose is to distinguish people from themselves, is it? Aren't they trying to "help" people by first assuming that their own demons are shared by everyone else?

I have a theory regarding the religious fascination with homosexuality: Most organized religions promote leaders that are "chaste". This will naturally attract young men who do not feel the usual "desire" for women that their peers do. They will interpret this as a spiritual calling to serve the Lord. This mechanism ratchets in only one direction, leading men with abnormal sex drives into a position of power in all of our major religions.

This means that our religions are run by a larger-than-normal percentage of people with abnormal sex drives. DISCLAIMER: Homosexuals are not evil just because they are a smaller percentage of the population. My uncle was gay and by growing up in a ballet troop, most of my friends and peers were gay. I happen to prefer gay people to straight people as they are usually more intelligent, have a better sense of humor, and much better hygiene. That said, a large portion of religious leaders in faiths that celebrate chastity are going to be homosexuals, pedophiles, or asexual people. Of these, only pedophiles are doing something wrong in my esteem, and it does not judge the other two groups to lump them all together. The thing they have in common is that they are NOT attracted to women, and nothing else.

However, in an internal culture (the church) that shames all three as equally crazy, these men turn to self-loathing that breeds the worst kind of resentment and hatred which they then unload on the rest of society. How many anti-gay activists do we have to catch having sex with male prostitutes before we see the pattern? How many Catholic priests need to fondle young boys before we stop marveling at how awesome they are to not want sexual contact with women (as if this is a marker of strong contact with god)?

In the exceptions to this system, where a prophet uses a cult of personality to FORM a religion, we see the opposite pattern: men with normal, polygamous lusts forming harems justified by their gods (Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Ayn Rand).
 
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