That started in the last two years under Obama. Under Trump, only the rich are prospering while the rest have barely seen anything new on their paychecks. When will they see that happen? It's funny how Trump always manages to take credit for things he never did.
Nancy Pelosi is a felon.
- Thread starter Beaconator
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That started in the last two years under Obama. Under Trump, only the rich are prospering while the rest have barely seen anything new on their paychecks. When will they see that happen? It's funny how Trump always manages to take credit for things he never did.
What a shortsighted statement. Your dept/GDP ratio is the highest it's been since WW2. Yes your economy's growing, but US government and private debts are growing even faster, which is why your measures of prosperity aren't matched by visible improvements on the ground. Furthermore, of those getting wealthier in the US, most of that wealth growth is literally owned by a handful of American citizens. If you think the world is aligning more closely with the US under Trump's leadership, then you're not actually reading the news and neither is Fox.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
LOL! The US economy saw huge growth after WWII. Obviously that ratio is not a limiting factor on real-world prosperity.
Demonstrable not true, even just by polls of how well Americans think they're doing economically. You have to believe that people who haven't seen a rise in wages or opportunities are optimistic just because the rich are doing better. That's preposterous. And the historically low unemployment along belies that fact. But you juts keep up the steady diet of doom and gloom in the face of regular people's lives improving.
Must suck being a pessimist.
Yeah great logic. I guess if debt's as swell as you seem to think it is, we should be expecting a massive economic surge in Lebanon and Venezuela any moment now.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
What kind of backwards excuse for reasoning would make economic growth in spite of debt somehow caused by debt?
No wonder leftists don't understand economics.
The rightwinger celebrates debt-fueled economic expansion - Keynesian stimulus, if properly managed, and bubble&bust if not.
Too funny.
like is have mentioned "a fairy floss economy"
Do you know the difference between true wealth and fairy floss wealth?
Give him a year or so. Once a democrat is in office, he will be claiming that having a huge debt is worse than genocide.
You're using WW2-era comparisons to argue that debt-fueled economic expansion is something to celebrate, so comparisons with more contemporary examples are just as appropriate. Even if the US economy really is improving including at the median level, and it's not just a case of statistical fluctuations and boom-busts, for you to claim it's unprecedented is absurd. The US needs the people benefiting the most from infrastructure and other government services to chip in their fair share, which they weren't even doing under the Obama tax regime as it was because of all the offshore loophole exemptions.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
The facts plainly show that the US is currently in its longest period of economic growth in its entire history, including record low unemployment. If you think facts are "absurd", that's your personal problem. And you would have to be able to show that the growth is comparable and directly linked to the debt in order to claim that the latter explained the former.
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
No, the US had the longest period of economic growth and record lowest unemployment during the time of "slavery"!
And of course you can have "faux" economic growth when you practice "economic welfare" (tax-cuts and subsidies) for billion dollar companies on borrowed money.
I'm not jealous of anything in the US. I want Americans to be rich and I want them to exhibit positive leadership in a world where democracy is constantly being challenged and millions are killed every year by people who don't believe in equal rights. That won't happen if the richest Americans pay almost no tax because of loopholes and government connections; infrastructure won't be constructed and repaired quickly enough to meet the population's needs, which eventually cripples its ability to continue generating wealth. If you're running a company and the company's debts are climbing faster than revenues, you're not considered to be profitable and your leadership gets called into question, so it's no different than the situation with Trump. When America starts paying its debts down or at least reducing the debt/GDP ratio then you can brag all you want about what a great economic manager Trump is, but right now your ass kissing just makes you look like Dr. Billy Wayne Ruddick Jr.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Cite your source. I find the ignorant argument that slavery was "full employment" to be rather racist, in that it equates involuntary labor, of blacks in particular, with voluntary labor. Quite aside from the fact that the US economy was not built on cotton alone. https://reason.com/2018/07/19/slavery-did-not-make-america-r/
There's nothing faux about more people working for better wages. And cutting corporate taxes alone does neither. Corporations are not in the habit of raising wages or adding jobs unless they need to, in order to compete for an increased spending power of consumers. Corporate taxes can stifle such growth, but cutting them does not, itself, create such growth.
Why can't your own jerkwater country "exhibit positive leadership in a world where democracy is constantly being challenged and millions are killed every year by people who don't believe in equal rights"? Oh right, because it doesn't have the economic wherewithal to field a significant military presence.
In 2016, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined.
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2018-update/
With a highly competitive job market, any infrastructure work would be relatively expensive. Raising the capital to improve infrastructure doesn't mean the politicians will get it done, without a private investment opportunity or specifically levied taxes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...78d930-7610-11e7-8839-ec48ec4cae25_story.htmlhttps://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2018-update/
You're not paying anything down until you have the means to do so, and that requires sustained growth, like the current, longest period of economic growth in history. Not sure how you imagine paying down debt without growth.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Before you make a fool of yourself, you may want to famliarize yourself with the contribution slaves made to the US economy, precisely because were indentured and worked without pay.
How Slavery Became the Economic Engine of the South
https://www.history.com/news/slavery-profitable-southern-economy
Who built the railroads? Who built the White House? Slaves, my friend. This country was built on the back of slaves. And if you think that is a racist remark, then you have no business discussing the subject.
You don't even think about what you are reading do you?
I was talking about Corporate Welfare, not raising wages for workers. When the housing market collapsed in 2006-2007, under Bush, who got bailed out to the tune of a "trillion" dollars? Was it the people who lost their life savings or the big boys who promptly gave themselves multi-million dollar bonuses for a sales-job well done!
Where have you been all this time?
And if you still believe in "trickle down economy", you just have no clue as to what makes a thriving economy.
The real wealth belongs to those who provide the credit to the USA to facilitate it's debt.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Oh, and that is an indication of the majority of people making a livable wage? I say it's an indication that the top 1 % makes so much money that even at a lower tax rate (which they have) they still end up having to pay more than the 90 % of the workers who actuall pay a relatively higher tax rate! Do you have any idea how much money the top 1% make, mostly on the exploitation of the nations natural resources that should belong to all American tax payers alike.
The amounts are staggering, where a single individual makes the equivalent of an entire state budget in a single year.
It is high time that income should be capped, with a sur-tax when a "generous" income threshold has been exceeded.
Unlimited Capitalism is akin to a parasitic organism that is killing it's host. History is witness to that over and over again. When will you learn?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
The current National Debt is 23+ trillion dollars and rising at an incredible rate.
https://www.worldometers.info/us-debt-clock/
Wait until the Japanese and Chinese Banks start raising the interest rate. It'll be ugly.
So how much do the Creditors own of the USA GDP?
Answer: All of it...
Gosh lend me a few million and I can create jobs and the illusion of wealth no problemo...
Use the debt to provide tax cuts to the nations corporations and flood the stock market with fairy floss... no problemo...
Japanese and Chinese administrators are on their way...lol
But then again Trump should know all about that hey?
Humor aside, real wealth is not determined by how much money you have but how much you owe.
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
And in the case of a National debt, all the people share that debt, even if they had nothing to do with the borrowing.
Talking about robbing Peter to pay Paul. What we have here is the greatest con-job ever perpetrated on an entire nation.
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Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
So no source on your claim that the longest period of economic growth in the US was during slavery, huh? Just talking out of your ass.
The racist remark is equating involuntary and voluntary labor. Do you really think that slavery is "full employment" of blacks that should somehow count against the historical record of voluntary employment?
Saying stuff was built with slave labor doesn't really support the case that the economy itself only prospered due to slavery. And the economic growth after slavery plainly belies that fact. The South/Confederacy was not the entire nation.
Must be nice having a simplistic view of history.
I explicitly addressed corporate taxation, if your confirmation bias didn't blind you to it.
Income inequality is just run-of-the-mill jealousy when the average person is doing objectively better than ever. If I'm doing well, I really don't care how much better someone else may be doing, because I'm not a jealous prick. I appreciate what I have and earn, and I don't begrudge anyone what they have and earn.
Having paid for the land, drilling, and/or mining rights, the natural resources are legally owned. Americans do not, collectively, own all the land because America is not socialist. And no, capitalism is not parasitic, as people can only earn money in a free market through voluntary exchange, where their success hinges on the success of others, like higher consumer spending power and the competitive job market that allows it.