# model to toy with for the holy days: The universe as a wave rolling through time.

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Dec 23, 2017.

1. ### river

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In your first statement you have to prove 2D is ; has , a physical form . 2D is a mathematical concept ; nothing more .

So far I have seen no proof .

Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
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3. ### nebel

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River, the lake, in the model of the OP proposition, like a river, has a surface, that would be ideally 2 dimensional. Once you are in that wave, you realize that there is energy. more to existence than just the 2 dimensions.
The surface is 2 dimensional. the model is more profound, has (profondeur)

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5. ### river

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Disagree

Surface is not 2D .

The surface is three dimensional now matter how deep into the micro you go .

Your using three dimensional things to prove your 2D point .

Your 2D needs to exist on its own . Independent of any three dimensional objects .

Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
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7. ### nebel

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river, a surface if it is curved in the least bit, shows the flatlanders inhabiting it, that a 3d dimension is involved.
As the OP showed, the thought experiment involves the water, as air breathers we prefer to work on the surface. Just because an abstract surface has no thickness does not mean it does not exists. We float needles and razor blades on water, so it must have a real surface appropriately tensioned like space by gravity.
Think about the future, that the wave and our surf boards point into. Not a ride that peters out at a shore.

8. ### river

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That is a problem ( high lighted ) .

Your not understanding what three dimensions means .

In three dimensions the surface is not abstract . It is real . And has depth .

9. ### nebel

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You are potting undue restrains*** on the Model -proposed in the OP- to toy with.
The moment an entity becomes undulated, surface dwellers will realize there is a third dimension.
Look at the Dirac sea and it's implications. (another water analogy).

Since the Big Bang, matter, this peculiar form of energy, energy which is uncreated, undestroyable, has been moving through time.
A wave is a peculiar temporary* shape of water, a form of energy. moving through time too, so, so far the model fits. so,
Play with it.
see what surfaces.
* from the French word for time, le temps
*** another unduly narrow limitation would be to consider time a river only, a stream of time.

Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
10. ### nebel

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PS: sorry, wrong thread, but lake analogy holds: resurrecting an old chestnut:
"While moving around within the gas in the interstellar medium, cosmic rays kickstart the background protons, which causes a collective plasma wave movement akin to ripples on a lake. "
"Cosmic rays may help explain aspects of our galaxy from its smallest scales, such as protoplanetary disks and planets, to its largest scales, such as galactic winds," quoted from:
American Institute of Physics. "Cosmic rays may be key to understanding galactic dynamics." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 24 August 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210824121031.htm>.
1. A. Marcowith, A. J. van Marle, I. Plotnikov. The cosmic ray-driven streaming instability in astrophysical and space plasmas. Physics of Plasmas, 2021; 28 (8): 080601 DOI: 10.1063/5.0013662

Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
11. ### nebel

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Micha-el , you are right, let me play another wave picture for you: the OP proposes a wave in water analogy. . A wave in water is rotating energy advancing in a stationary medium. moving like a cycloid.
Every cycloid has a zero velocity contact area. ***
The "now" you mentioned are the fleeting moments where we live in time. part of the energy/ matter wave moving through time into the future. even the bubble#3 in the "ALMA" thread.

*** we surfers, when davancing out through an oncoming wave will dive to the bottom to be in that calm area, and not face the advancing , breaking top that of the wave, that moves temporarily at twice the speed of the wave itself. What a great ride life is, surfing the wave that is the universe, moving through time into the future.

12. ### nebel

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RE" WATER IS THE TIME IN THE INFINITE EXTENSION"

RS: I was not referring to "water" in a religious sense, but explaining, that in the analogy of the thread, the water surface or bubble, if you think in 3 dimensions, represents, or pictures the time dimension, and the wave moving out is the energy pulse of the universe.
water waves are rotary, having a tiny water movement against the movement at the bottom, in effect
a kind of zero velocity, zero friction cycloid cusp below. (see new thread "the universal cycloid motion")

Last edited: May 5, 2022