Misogyny and the Conservative Tradition

No, that you think that drunk women demonstrates that women are bitches.

Do the recent serial killers demonstrate that all men are violent?

Drunk women who did it on their own accord and are doing other stuff like cursing loud or showing their body around, are indeed bitches. Are all women bitches as a result? No
Recent serial killers are mostly men, and are indeed show that some men are violent to extreme and a hazard to society. Are all men violent as a result? No

You can't trick me billvion) Go play somewhere else.

Notice I am not saying that just being drunk is enough for a woman to be a "bitch", she has to act inappropriately too to be going over the line.
 
Drunk women who did it on their own accord and are doing other stuff like cursing loud or showing their body around, are indeed bitches. Are all women bitches as a result? No

Why are they bitches? Why does it bother you? They can do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned as long as they don't hurt anyone. It's their life. They want to get drunk and pass out, fine with me. They have to live with the hangover.

Recent serial killers are mostly men, and are indeed show that some men are violent to extreme and a hazard to society. Are all men violent as a result? No

Agreed there.

Notice I am not saying that just being drunk is enough for a woman to be a "bitch", she has to act inappropriately too to be going over the line.

Why do you care if she acts up to your standards of behavior? Do you live up to stranger's expectations of you?
 
Why are they bitches? Why does it bother you? They can do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned as long as they don't hurt anyone. It's their life. They want to get drunk and pass out, fine with me. They have to live with the hangover.
Agreed there.
Why do you care if she acts up to your standards of behavior? Do you live up to stranger's expectations of you?

I think you have a misconception here that I tell those women to their faces that they are bitches. I simply avoid them.

Yes according to my own standards of behavior women should not act this way. You yourself have a standard of behavior for such women. Everyone does. This is a forum and we have discussing how we feel and how we see others in our own perception. Do I force those women to act according to my standards? No I do not. But I do dislike such women.
 
Notice I am not saying that just being drunk is enough for a woman to be a "bitch", she has to act inappropriately too to be going over the line.
So you say. But by definition...
drunk
/drəNGk/
Adjective
Affected by alcohol to the extent of losing control of one's faculties or behavior​
... a drunk woman will act inappropriately relative to her "normal" standards because she loses control of her faculties and behavior. It would seem that according to your logic this must place her in the "bitch" category because she is drunk. So "I am not saying that just being drunk is enough for a woman to be a 'bitch'" is a patently false statement on your part. Does it enhance your male superiority complex to pass such judgements on women? How do you feel about men that drink? Is their behavior, no matter how "inappropriate", still righteous? Or are they "bitches" too? If that's not the term you would use, why not?
 
So you say. But by definition...
drunk
/drəNGk/
Adjective
Affected by alcohol to the extent of losing control of one's faculties or behavior​
... a drunk woman will act inappropriately relative to her "normal" standards because she loses control of her faculties and behavior. It would seem that according to your logic this must place her in the "bitch" category because she is drunk. So "I am not saying that just being drunk is enough for a woman to be a 'bitch'" is a patently false statement on your part. Does it enhance your male superiority complex to pass such judgements on women? How do you feel about men that drink? Is their behavior, no matter how "inappropriate", still righteous? Or are they "bitches" too? If that's not the term you would use, why not?

where do I present my supposedly "male superiority complex" here by talking about my moral standards and how I view different womens' actions?

What do I feel about a guy getting drunk and passed out on the floor? The same thing I feel about a girl getting drunk and passed out on the floor.
For your information I dont drink alcohol, because I do not like loosing control ever. You want to drink it? go ahead. You want to ask me what I feel about it? I feel like you shouldn't. Will I tell you this? No, it is your life, you make what you want of it.

A woman who gets drunk in a restaurant can still behave in a socially acceptable way and "hold" herself together, to me such a woman is respectful.
A woman who gets drunk in a restaurant and goes screaming loudly and puking on the floor as well as making grimaces or else is not respectful, to me such a woman is a bitch.

Same thing goes with men.

Inappropriate:
2cdtsn5.jpg

Appropriate:
Rioja%20Wine%20Tasting%20018.jpg
 
Stating the Obvious

YourEyes said:

What is your POV Tiassa that some women who behave in a not socially acceptable and respectful of others way not be called bitches?

There are plenty of words that suffice, and each might be more circumstantially appropriate than another: Dumbfuck, fucktard, asshole, shithead, shit-for-brains ... there are plenty of derogatory terms that suffice in ways that don't require making one's natural state derogatory.

Which reminds me: What do you call men in the condition depicted by the included images?

But, say, for a white, heterosexual male, what is the equivalent to words like bitch, faggot, and nigger?

I'm pushing forty, and I've never discovered that word.

The point of calling a man a bitch is to denigrate him not only for whatever attitude one finds offensive, but by feminizing him as well.

The point of insulting a man as a faggot is to attribute to him the asserted inherent inferiority of the homosexual.

The point of denigrating a white guy as a nigger is to invoke the asserted inherent inferiority of dark skin.

What is an insult that holds the fact of being male against me?
 
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There are plenty of words that suffice, and each might be more circumstantially appropriate than another: Dumbfuck, fucktard, asshole, shithead, shit-for-brains ... there are plenty of derogatory terms that suffice in ways that don't require making one's natural state derogatory.

What is an insult that holds the fact of being male against me?

The point you are trying to make across is that calling a particular woman engaged in such activities a bitch is holding her as a woman against her. That is not the case. The case here are the decisions and actions such a person takes in her life. A woman who is a bitch is as a man who is a jerk. And many men are called jerks.

It is not really that woman who acts in an inappropriate by society way a bitch, as that she has free will to do so and engages in such derogatory behavior.
 
where do I present my supposedly "male superiority complex" here by talking about my moral standards and how I view different womens' actions?
Your attitude reeks of "superiority" and condescension. I'm amazed that you can even ask where - everywhere?

What do I feel about a guy getting drunk and passed out on the floor? The same thing I feel about a girl getting drunk and passed out on the floor.
At least you profess to be an equal opportunity jerk. That would be a point in your favor except I don't buy it.

For your information I dont drink alcohol, because I do not like loosing control ever.
I don't care. Whether you drink or not is not relevant to the topic at hand.

You want to drink it? go ahead.
I feel so much relief now that I have your permission. See "condescension" again...

You want to ask me what I feel about it? I feel like you shouldn't. Will I tell you this?
You just did. Can't stop lying even for a moment can you?

No, it is your life, you make what you want of it.
I will. And am. Thank you again for your input.

A woman who gets drunk in a restaurant can still behave in a socially acceptable way and "hold" herself together, to me such a woman is respectful.
"Behave in a socially acceptable way"? You mean behave in an acceptable way for youreyes, right? Someone did die and leave you in charge of these things, right?

A woman who gets drunk in a restaurant and goes screaming loudly and puking on the floor as well as making grimaces or else is not respectful, to me such a woman is a bitch.
Uh huh. We know this. It's just not your place to make such the call. Sorry. A woman's behavior while drunk does not entitle you to label them a "bitch" just because said behavior does not meet your outdated misogynistic and Victorian standards. Sorry about that.


Inappropriate:
drink-drank-drunk2-470-75.jpg

Appropriate:
Rioja%20Wine%20Tasting%20018.jpg
More evidence of your all seeing omniscience. You apparently think you are qualified to apply the bitch label based on a single still photograph sans all context right?

I'm so glad this forum allows you to remain in situ so that the rest of us may admire the purest strain of misogyny in all it's glory. Kudos.
 
Your attitude reeks of "superiority" and condescension. I'm amazed that you can even ask where - everywhere?

At least you profess to be an equal opportunity jerk. That would be a point in your favor except I don't buy it.

I don't care. Whether you drink or not is not relevant to the topic at hand.

I feel so much relief now that I have your permission. See "condescension" again...

You just did. Can't stop lying even for a moment can you?

I will. And am. Thank you again for your input.

"Behave in a socially acceptable way"? You mean behave in an acceptable way for youreyes, right? Someone did die and leave you in charge of these things, right?

Uh huh. We know this. It's just not your place to make such the call. Sorry. A woman's behavior while drunk does not entitle you to label them a "bitch" just because said behavior does not meet your outdated misogynistic and Victorian standards. Sorry about that.


More evidence of your all seeing omniscience. You apparently think you are qualified to apply the bitch label based on a single still photograph sans all context right?

I'm so glad this forum allows you to remain in situ so that the rest of us may admire the purest strain of misogyny in all it's glory. Kudos.

And you? What are you? You just accused and attacked me for your personal pleasures. I am focusing on a topic and staying away from bashing.

Notice how Orleander addresses me? Like you, she does not share my POV, yet she retains the dignity and respect in my heart, for she does not go bashing and labeling.
 
You also ignored every point I just mentioned. Turn tail and run when you can't support your position. Typical of your ilk...

I choose not to engage in conversation with someone who does not give me the respect necessary for a discussion.
 
I choose not to engage in conversation with someone who does not give me the respect necessary for a discussion.
Respect? From now on you will always be my bitch youreyes. And I will respect you as such eternally.

/* Randwolf fondly strokes his new bitch */
 
But, say, for a white, heterosexual male, what is the equivalent to words like bitch, faggot, and nigger?

I'm pushing forty, and I've never discovered that word.

The point of calling a man a bitch is to denigrate him not only for whatever attitude one finds offensive, but by feminizing him as well.

The point of insulting a man as a faggot is to attribute to him the asserted inherent inferiority of the homosexual.

The point of denigrating a white guy as a nigger is to invoke the asserted inherent inferiority of the [African-American]

What is an insult that holds the fact of being male against me?

I think "jock" and "caveman" are a couple of male-centric terms that, when used pejoratively, invoke a perceived inferiority of the overtly-male. I grant you that neither of them have the sting of "faggot" or "nigger," and, at least in times gone by, "bitch," but that's because the truly hurtful terms are only hurtful because of what they represent, not because of what they imply. Calling a black man a nigger represents white oppression of the African-American, and so on. If whites were the minority, "nigger" would have no power.

Which is why I don't understand why the affected groups allow these terms to retain their power. I'm not going to pretend it's a level playing field out there, but it's getting there, yet terms like the ones mentioned above are just as quick to cause offense--real offense, fight-starting stuff--today as they were 50 years ago. Why is that? Why do these affected minorities allow it?
 
Respect? From now on you will always be my bitch youreyes. And I will respect you as such eternally.

/* Randwolf fondly strokes his new bitch */

I guess I can mock you the same way and make fun in the same magnitude. Alas, you I shall not waste my time on such trivial issues, but rather continue with the topic of this thread.

Modern American conservatives routinely come down on the restrictive, reserved side of issues. Consider the idea of the conservative Democrat; it was the Democratic Party, in the nineteenth century, that supported slavery. In the twentieth century, Democrats lost the American South by betraying white supremacy.

The problem is that I believe most people share a neutral side of issues, however in order to gain momentum in the party one must stick with the extremes thus such a boundary between the Liberals and Conservatives exist.
 
Which is why I don't understand why the affected groups allow these terms to retain their power. I'm not going to pretend it's a level playing field out there, but it's getting there, yet terms like the ones mentioned above are just as quick to cause offense--real offense, fight-starting stuff--today as they were 50 years ago. Why is that? Why do these affected minorities allow it?

well in my opinion the N word is used much less than it was in 1950's for example, so there is definitely progress there.
 
Something about stroking ... er ... you know, maybe not

No stroking in public, please.

Okay, okay, okay. But, still, I must admit that this is a fascinating digression. After all, what better way to avoid the question of widespread, systemic misogyny than to insist that it is appropriate to call women bitches just because one doesn't like them.

One of my favorite Doonesbury strips, from the 1970s:

Slim: Ms. Caucus, we boys have been noticing a big change in the girls lately. They've been acting like boys.

Joanie: Well, dear, I'm not sure you boys are being quite fair. A great lady, Simone de Beauvoir, once said that there are two kinds of people; human beings and women. And when women start acting like human beings, they are accused of trying to be men.

Slim: Yeah ... but ... but ... um ....

Ellie: Simone de Beauvoir's got your number, Slim.

It seems like we ought to change that. These days, if women start acting like human beings, they are accused of being bitches.

Well, you know. Not always. But the misogyny of insisting that there's nothing wrong with calling a woman a bitch is not unheard of.

It's kind of like the people in my youth who insisted that they weren't racist. There are, after all, black people, and then there are niggers.

I would note, though, that there is no equivalence between jerk and bitch, at least not in American culture.
 
After all, what better way to avoid the question of widespread, systemic misogyny than to insist that it is appropriate to call women bitches just because one doesn't like them.

I would note, though, that there is no equivalence between jerk and bitch, at least not in American culture.

A jerk is almost always applied to a man who acting in an inappropriate to a woman ways. When a guy refers to a particular girl as a bitch he also sees her acting in an inappropriate to a man ways.

We all hate killers and child molesters. Because they killed and molested children. Women do not like men and call them jerks as a result of their behavior. How is it any different?

Also since you are siding with Randwolf and accepting comments on "stroking", albeit in a very disguised playful manner...I believe you side with the liberal POV, correct?
 
I would note, though, that there is no equivalence between jerk and bitch, at least not in American culture.

Well, "bitch" kind of always just meant a female jerk. At least that's how we used it when I was growing up. "Asshole" would have been the male equivalent.

Edit: I keep expecting a direct response, forgetting that you treat this forum as a pseudo-blog rather than a place to have a discussion. My fault. Blog away!
 
well in my opinion the N word is used much less than it was in 1950's for example, so there is definitely progress there.

Yes, that's true. But it hasn't lost its power to injure, which I find disheartening, as well as strange. It shouldn't have that effect anymore.
 
This and That

Balerion said:

Well, "bitch" kind of always just meant a female jerk. At least that's how we used it when I was growing up. "Asshole" would have been the male equivalent.

Well, yeah, but when I was growing up—and I don't think I'm unusual in this regard—"jerk" was a word my parents allowed me to say, and "bitch" was a cuss word. Perhaps it was different where you are, but I'm pretty sure that around here, my parents were hardly prudish on that count. Indeed, as far as I can tell, theirs was a pretty normal standard on that count.

And "asshole" is not gender specific. A woman has an asshole, too.

We have an old joke up here about the city on the other side of Lake Washington: What do hemorhhoids and BMWs have in common? Sooner or later, every asshole in Bellvue is going to get 'em.

See, that joke includes women, too. It is telling, to me, that my generation is part of the ideology in which it isn't enough to simply insult someone who happened to be female. Some people need to make womanhood itself an insult. You know, because otherwise their masculinity is threatened.

• • •​

YourEyes said:

A jerk is almost always applied to a man who acting in an inappropriate to a woman ways. When a guy refers to a particular girl as a bitch he also sees her acting in an inappropriate to a man ways ....

.... Women do not like men and call them jerks as a result of their behavior. How is it any different?

How is "jerk" gender specific?

I guess I can mock you the same way and make fun in the same magnitude. Alas, you I shall not waste my time on such trivial issues, but rather continue with the topic of this thread.

It's always an interesting dilemma whether to afford someone respect that would offend them, such as regarding you according to societal decency, or to afford them the respect of abiding by their own standard.

But for you to "continue with the topic of this thread", you would have to actually attend that topic in the first place, instead of whimper and mewl about your need to call women bitches.

To the other ...

I believe you side with the liberal POV, correct?

... I had not realized there was any real question about my leftism. So ... don't know what to tell you, except that, I suppose, I probably should not be surprised.
 
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