Kiwi123 and Brian Foley

Should Kiwi123 and Brian Foley [b]both[/b] be banned from sciforums?

  • Yes, please ban both of them.

    Votes: 11 35.5%

  • No, they should both be allowed to stay.

    Votes: 11 35.5%

  • I don't care, either way.

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • I don't know enough about these posters to be able to decide.

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
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James R

James R

Just this guy, you know?
Staff member
Kiwi123 and Brian Foley - different and yet somehow the same.

Kiwi123 is rabidly pro-Israel / anti-Arab and also has a rabid one-track mind.
Brian is rabidly anti-Israel / pro-Arab and also has a rabid one-track mind.

Here's a list the most recent 20 threads Kiwi123 has started:

1. Should Israeli police give flowers & candies to militant Islamists criminals?
2. Hezbullah is "resistining" non combatants daring to breathe
3. The biased Anti Israel worldwide Arabist Controlled media
4. The surprising S. Arabia condemnation of IslamicTerror Huzbullah
5. How much does Arab Oil "lobby" MAFIA dictate the UN
6. (Radical) Islamo Arab thirst for (it's) "dead babies"
7. The Arab led ETHNIC CLEANSING of "palestine"
8. Do Islamofacsists radicals deny that 3,000 died from their brothers on 9/11
9. Oh, when Hezbullah/Hamas Islamists terrorists are called "civilians"
10. The power of ARAB OIL LOBBY in the UN
11. Islamic Hitler in Iran is hitting west via Huzbullah
12. Fate of those with "only" 25% Jewish blod at EVIL NAZIS' Holocaust Upon Millions
13. Since when are Arab "palestinians" a nation by itself?
14. Another cruelty method - KIDNAPPING
15. All evidence show palestinian fault vs terrerorists' mouthpiece under: "human rights"
16. PMW : PA TV falsified Mohammed Al Dura clip as it falsified Gaza beach
17. Will a fence help US combat illegals (as it helped Israel combatting bombers)?
18. Arabs that pushed for war on Iraq? cowards now???
19. Racists call a shield from genocide as "apartheid"
20. Good VS Evil, while Arab leaders abuse them,Israel Tears for "palestine" Children

Some facts about these threads:

13 out of 20 have been closed.
9 out of 20 have been moved to the "Cesspool", the "Unintelligent community" of sciforums.
All seek to stir up hatred against Arabs and Palestinians.

Here's a list the most recent 20 threads Brian Foley has started:

1. Hey Israel, You Missed One!!
2. Now remember how Israel started this war
3. Australian & World mass protests against Israel Im so proud
4. Israel celebrates its terrorist past Britain annoyed
5. Will Lebanon be occupied?
6. Clinton says he would have died for Israel
7. Israel bows to Hezbollah resistance , well done
8. Bastille day happy birthday France
9. The ethnic cleansing of Gaza begins
10. Bush Ass Kisses the Israel lobby
11. Israels Gaza rampage planned weeks ago
12. A warning to Zionist Christians
13. Happy July 4th
14. More US " missions accomplished " in Iraq
15. Swedish Central Bank Dumps Dollar
16. Israels Beach attack denial falls on deaf ears
17. The desired result of Israels " work accident " massacre
18. The murder of Zarqawi the defender of Fallujah
19. The US unveils Zarqawis plan of World domination
20. Something interesting on Al Zarqawi to consider

Some facts about these threads:

3 out of 20 have been closed.
3 out of 20 have been moved to the "Cesspool", the "Unintelligent community" of sciforums.
Most seek to stir up hatred against Israel and support terrorism.

---

As a moderator, I find that I need to watch these guys constantly, since they can't control themselves or their biased outbursts. I'm constantly closing their threads, or at a minimum responding to try to inject some kind of balance into discussions they start.

It seems to me that both are using sciforums as nothing other than a soap-box to push personal agendas. Many of their threads do not even raise topics for discussion. Instead, they are used merely as propaganda devices.

I am a supporter of free speech, but not hate speech. It seems to me that Kiwi and Brian are unable to look past their hatred, and view events in an unbiased manner. They also display the kind of one-track mind we have all become familiar with from religious fundamentalists in recent years.

I have concluded that neither of these posters adds anything useful to sciforums. I do not want sciforums to be seen as a platform for hate speech. I think if we allow this to continue, sciforums will attract more bigotted individuals in future.

On the other hand, I am aware that many people on sciforums feel strongly about free speech. And so I want to gauge opinion.

In your opinion, should Kiwi123 and Brian Foley both be banned from sciforums? Yes or no?

To avoid accusations of bias, it is both or neither at this point. This is not a poll to gauge how many people are pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian. It is to gauge what kind of community we want to have at sciforums. Usually, when I close one of their threads, Brian and Kiwi accuse me of barracking for the "other" side. So, this time they stand or fall together.

I would like to hear your reasons for banning or keeping them, too.

And, of course, if Kiwi123 or Brian wants to respond, I would be most interested to hear from you. Tell me why you both ought to be allowed to keep posting here.

This poll will remain open for 1 week, and then I will make a decision based on the majority consensus.
 
Hello James. Could you link to/quote some telling posts from both of them so that what you are pointing out is made clear?
 
13 out of 20 closed re Kiwi,
3 out of 20 closed for Brian

Hardly equal result? Thus to judge them both together (This is not pop idol you know! ;) ) is hardly fair.

you have probably closed as many of 3 out of 20 of mine also, and I'm not extremist, thus these figures do not necessarily reflect any wrong doing.

I am not familiar with kiwi, but have yet to see a 'racist' comment from brian, usually he just states what are reported publically as facts, please therefore show links to racist comments if they exist as this is more relevant and revealing than 'figures'.

There are lots of people here that use sci as a soap box, if you don't want religious or political stuff being discussed close those forums, otherwise you are not allowing free speach you are falsly advertising it.
 
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Note, the facts thus far, people don't know these individuals enough, or people are not contributing to your thread request may demonstrate that they are not so much of a nuisance to readers as to yourself as mod.

Their posts are possibly lengthy thus increasing your work load as you know every word has to be read.

Perhaps another way round this problem would be to limit either number of posts per day or restrict post length in favour of more links? Or if the conversation is just two way and getting personal, advise them to take the chat into PM and away from public forum, then you don't have to moderate it?
 
Keep both.

Yes, they're both soapbox politicians but their topics nearly always inspire intense debate (the ones that don't get closed). Lots of people on Sciforums are one-issue people. They may not start dozens of threads like Kiwi and Brian but they're just as guilty of ploughing the same furrow. Like D'ster? If Kiwi and Brian are to be banned, D'ster should be added to the list, on the same grounds. And Woody: dozens of pages on how much he doesn't hate homosexuals.

But no. Keep, because Sciforums would be a lot duller without them. For those voting against, can I recommend this site for biscuit-dry, yawn-inducing academic discussion:

http://www.thescienceforum.com/
 
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Theoryofrelativity said:
13 out of 20 closed re Kiwi,
3 out of 20 closed for Brian

Hardly equal result? Thus to judge them both together (This is not pop idol you know! ;) ) is hardly fair.
Click to expand...
Indeed. If Foley is banned then at least a dozen others should also be banned. The poll is loaded, I refuse to vote...
 
kazakhan said:
Indeed. If Foley is banned then at least a dozen others should also be banned. The poll is loaded, I refuse to vote...
Click to expand...

James said :

"To avoid accusations of bias, it is both or neither at this point. This is not a poll to gauge how many people are pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian. It is to gauge what kind of community we want to have at sciforums. Usually, when I close one of their threads, Brian and Kiwi accuse me of barracking for the "other" side. So, this time they stand or fall together."

This cannot be strictly correct, as Kiwi has had 13 threads closed to only 3 of Brians, thus the one doing majority of barracking must be Kiwi? I don't think these two can be compared, not with these results.

Kiwi should stand alone, there is no bias.
 
redarmy11 said:
Keep both.

Yes, they're both soapbox politicians but their topics nearly always inspire intense debate (the ones that don't get closed). Lots of people on Sciforums are one-issue people. They may not start dozens of threads like Kiwi and Brian but they're just as guilty of ploughing the same furrow. Like D'ster? If Kiwi and Brian are to be banned, D'ster should be added to the list, on the same grounds. And Woody: dozens of pages on how much he doesn't hate homosexuals.

But no. Keep, because Sciforums would be a lot duller without them. For those voting against, can I recommend this site for biscuit-dry, yawn-inducing academic discussion:

http://www.thescienceforum.com/
Click to expand...

agreed
 
Theoryofrelativity said:
James said :

"To avoid accusations of bias, it is both or neither at this point. This is not a poll to gauge how many people are pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian. It is to gauge what kind of community we want to have at sciforums. Usually, when I close one of their threads, Brian and Kiwi accuse me of barracking for the "other" side. So, this time they stand or fall together."

This cannot be strictly correct, as Kiwi has had 13 threads closed to only 3 of Brians, thus the one doing majority of barracking must be Kiwi? I don't think these two can be compared, not with these results.

Kiwi should stand alone, there is no bias.
Click to expand...
I agree. I was just pointing out that if Foley's behavior warrants a banning then...
No two members deserve to be lumped together in a poll like this. There was a time when a non-moderator at least would of been banned for starting a thread like this. Maybe james is hooked on reality tv :p
 
James R said:
Kiwi123 and Brian Foley - different and yet somehow the same.

Kiwi123 is rabidly pro-Israel / anti-Arab and also has a rabid one-track mind.
Brian is rabidly anti-Israel / pro-Arab and also has a rabid one-track
Click to expand...

Hmmm.. maybe Kiwi and Brian should be allocated a single thread of their own in which they can shout at each other until Doomsday? Other users can participate as they see fit but any activity by Brian or Kiwi outside of the allocated thread = permanent ban. Maybe if they prove themselves capable of rational debate their freedoms can then be extended.

What do you think? ;)
 
redarmy11 said:
Hmmm.. maybe Kiwi and Brian should be allocated a single thread of their own in which they can shout at each other until Doomsday? Other users can participate as they see fit but any activity by Brian or Kiwi outside of the allocated thread = permanent ban. Maybe if they prove themselves capable of rational debate their freedoms can then be extended.

What do you think? ;)
Click to expand...

could call it the 'extreme forum, enter at your own risk!'
 
This is the problem with peoples interpretation of "Free Speech", the entire world does not conform to having an open view where a persons personal opinion should actually be heard, Especially in regards to Hate campaigns like Racism.

What people usually claim should be seen on the internet is "Tolerance", this is where you don't have to agree with someone else, however you should tolerate their own personal opinion and realise without their own personal view the world would be a rather boring place.

If you feel that either of those two individuals (or any others for that matter) is insighting violence or hatred towards Race or Religion and undermining any of the 30 Articles in the Universal Declaration of Human rights, then outright ban them.
 
I don't think anyone should be banned; its better to have these things discussed rather than swept aside. That said, if it's creating too much work for you, it's up to your discretion.
 
i think the question is the manner in which they are being discussed, sam.

i am fairly certain that everyone agrees that the subjects should be discussed.
 
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