Jupiter, Saturn, Harvesting Machines?

[nebel]

You're assuming that the material being scooped is stationary with respect to the Sun.

The harvesting or absorption could happen at any point. I see a planet prograde rotating and moving, sweeping material on the leading side on the orbit direction constantly toward the sun* (could happen via the magnetic field), that constant scooping would maximize material on the sunny side*** where with zero velocity, or even temporary reversal --whatever would be sucked pushed more efficiently into the quieter, noon zero velocity area of the near equator. (like a spike on the temporarily stationary tyre on the road.)
*** creating an enhanced Yarkovsky effect, and greater energy gradients between east + west+ poles and the super energized equator zone. ).
Earth weather is solar driven, If harvesting in the outer planet is more efficient, its contribution to Jupiter weather might be greater. or?

 

[nebel]

You're assuming that the material being scooped is stationary with respect to the Sun.
Also, what's supposed to be doing the "grabbing"?

Good objection. When using sunlight as an example, it has a source that is nearly stationary with respect to the moving planets.The "harvesting " concept becomes interesting when we look at moving incoming objects like meteors, comet debris.
Those entering on the night side in a shared direction of orbit motion, would have a reduced entry speed, favouring intact arrival on he "ground". The midday equator would double the entry speed, leading to more ablation. For example,
Shoemaker's string of fragments entered on the receding, day side of Jupiter, a slightly gentler approach.

What is doing the grabbing? Gravity. If available, the atmospheres. finally the "surface", becoming pitted.
PS: the effect works also for bodies coming from the outer reaches, at right angles to the orbit direction. Morning entries will be gentler, better catches. Perhaps,
Best yet in the evening, incoming from below, sunwards, then entry is on the receding side of the orbit! ?

 

[nebel]

At the poles, the net speed relative to the sun is solely due to the orbital motion of the planet, which is about 13 km/s for Jupiter. At the equator the minimum net speed relative to the Sun is about 2 km/s in the direction of the orbital motion.

Using your figures, which refer to the situation at noon at the equator, the near zero velocity would make it amenable to "harvest" material from a any "static" medium that would exist in the inter-planetary space. (or move radially from the Sun)
Looking at the "harvesting machine" analogy at the midnight situation, in 5 hours, any zero velocity point on the equator at noon, will have accelerated with respect to the sun to ~26 km/sec.
If we see the material of Jupiter as "scoops , hammers, abrasives", a different from the equator, and more efficient speedy extraction would occur there.
Not to mention the effect of such differentiated velocities. acceleration in the evening, deceleration with respect to the Sun in the morning.
Jupiter the cycloid.

 

[nebel]

Some connections to think about:

University of Arizona. "What makes Saturn's atmosphere so hot: New mapping of the giant planet's upper atmosphere reveals likely reason why it's so hot." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 6 April 2020. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200406190444.htm>.
"--currents, triggered by interactions between solar winds and charged particles from Saturn's moons, spark the auroras and heat the upper atmosphere. --"

In the model proposed in the OP, the poles, sunup and sundown regions and midday and midnight move at speeds varying from ` standstill to 20 km,sec. an the surface of saturn through the solar wind and "stationary" charged particles. these gradients changing every 2.5 to 5 hours have to be sources of that heat energy.

 

[nebel]

Nonsense. For example, Jupiter rotates on its axis once every 10 hours. In that time, each side of the planet is exposed to sunlight for 5 hours, approximately. What's this "twice longer" business about? Where did you get that idea?

To use another illustration: you can lengthen the exposure time to the sun by flying in an airplane that counters the rotation of the earth, remains always in sunlight. It is done during eclipses.
The counter rotation of the equator of Jupiter and Saturn in daylight nearly fit that equivalent.

 

[nebel]

It's not quite zero. For Jupiter, the minimum velocity, for a point in line with the Sun, is about 2 km/s. That's relative to the Sun, of course. But the minimum velocity only happens for an instant of time in each rotation,

and, the rotation velocity of the Sun is 2 km/sec too, giving the parting photons the motion that would bring them to zero velocity contact with Jupiter's equator at noon. and there is always points of Jupiter at noon, a never ending zero contact incidence of sunlight , and nowhere else on the planet; small at 4% of the power of the sun here, but surely a factor of what happens in the energy gradient between the bands of the giant. and,
that is in addition, independent of the effect due to differing angles of incidence with latitude, morning and evening time.

 

[river]

nebel in your post#21 , prograde ( anticlockwise ) why ? .

 

[nebel]

nebel in your post#21 , prograde ( anticlockwise ) why ?

The Sun has a prograde rotation, 2 km sec. if she, or le were a planet, we would call the side we see the night side.
Jupiter which has most of the planetary mass rotates prograde too, at 13 km.sec. but we see the day side.

As harvesting machines, these planets sweep any interplanetary matter "raked in" forward at night, with increased speed, to their leading edge in orbit, to then be heated at slower speed during the day, perhaps leaving with more energy at sunset.

Venus by contrast "rakes" matter forward, in the daytime toward sunup; a pileup of energized matter, manifested by the Y pattern, expanded at the leading edge. it is hot there.

point being, the last thing you need is to efficeiently harvest energy if there is already too much for comfort.

P.S. why? it is almost all prograde, because the next exo solar system might be retrograde, like the Earth and Venus pair, but I am going off topic.

 

[river]

The Sun has a prograde rotation, 2 km sec. if she, or le were a planet, we would call the side we see the night side.
Jupiter which has most of the planetary mass rotates prograde too, at 13 km.sec. but we see the day side.

As harvesting machines, these planets sweep any interplanetary matter "raked in" forward at night, with increased speed, to their leading edge in orbit, to then be heated at slower speed during the day, perhaps leaving with more energy at sunset.

Venus by contrast "rakes" matter forward, in the daytime toward sunup; a pileup of energized matter, manifested by the Y pattern, expanded at the leading edge. it is hot there.

point being, the last thing you need is to efficeiently harvest energy if there is already too much for comfort.

P.S. why? it is almost all prograde, because the next exo solar system might be retrograde, like the Earth and Venus pair, but I am going off topic.

Highlighted

A fluid of a sort .

 

[river]

The Sun has a prograde rotation, 2 km sec. if she, or le were a planet, we would call the side we see the night side.
Jupiter which has most of the planetary mass rotates prograde too, at 13 km.sec. but we see the day side.

As harvesting machines, these planets sweep any interplanetary matter "raked in" forward at night, with increased speed, to their leading edge in orbit, to then be heated at slower speed during the day, perhaps leaving with more energy at sunset.

Venus by contrast "rakes" matter forward, in the daytime toward sunup; a pileup of energized matter, manifested by the Y pattern, expanded at the leading edge. it is hot there.

point being, the last thing you need is to efficeiently harvest energy if there is already too much for comfort.

P.S. why? it is almost all prograde, because the next exo solar system might be retrograde, like the Earth and Venus pair, but I am going off topic.

Highlighted

Because it is necessary , to go off topic .

 

[nebel]

Highlighted

The highlight is that the sun and its parting photons have the same prograde velocity of 2 km sec. as the receiving equatorial region of Jupiter, as James R pointed out in post 12.
The zero velocity region, where the Vo and Vr cancel, lies above Jupiter's surface.

 

[river]

The highlight is that the sun and its parting photons have the same prograde velocity of 2 km sec. as the receiving equatorial region of Jupiter, as James R pointed out in post 12.
The zero velocity region, where the Vo and Vr cancel, lies above Jupiter's surface.

Hence the rings and moons .

 

[nebel]

Hence the rings and moons .

You are switching to Saturn now, and there, the equator and rings moons go actually into retrograde motion at noon. like railroad wheels, that always at the perimeter go backwards near the ground, while the train advances.
backward near the ground great for harvesting at ease.

 

[river]

You are switching to Saturn now, and there, the equator and rings moons go actually into retrograde motion at noon. like railroad wheels, that always at the perimeter go backwards near the ground, while the train advances.
backward near the ground great for harvesting at ease.

Next .

 

[nebel]

Next .

looking at the moons of Saturn, all the inner ones at noon go ~ 1.6 times* backward as Saturn advances. They must perform quite some loop while in the middle of their day.
If they were alive I would say they deliberately linger, snoop around the stationary solar field, while maintaining their moon orbital speed. so"
can a cycloid vary its exposure time at the cusp, by varying it's true orbital speed like that?
* nice golden ratio.

 

[river]

looking at the moons of Saturn, all the inner ones at noon go ~ 1.6 times* backward as Saturn advances. They must perform quite some loop while in the middle of their day.
If they were alive I would say they deliberately linger, snoop around the stationary solar field, while maintaining their moon orbital speed. so"
can a cycloid vary its exposure time at the cusp, by varying it's true orbital speed like that?
* nice golden ratio.

So what doesn't prograde in our solar system .

 

[nebel]

So what doesn't prograde in our solar system .

As mentioned, the moons of Saturn at their perihelion. Some of the moons with asteroid origin. The rotation of Venus.
If prograde Vo and prograde Vr match on the sunny side, there will be a perfect transfer, a sticking like a gum to your sole.

walking is actually a rolling motion with prolonged zero velocity contact. like the loops of Saturn's midriff, rings.

 

[river]

As mentioned, the moons of Saturn at their perihelion. Some of the moons with asteroid origin. The rotation of Venus.
If prograde Vo and prograde Vr match on the sunny side, there will be a perfect transfer, a sticking like a gum to your sole.

walking is actually a rolling motion with prolonged zero velocity contact. like the loops of Saturn's midriff, rings.

Or not

Nonsense , to your last statement .

 

[nebel]

Nonsense , to your last statement .

take your time to think this through. before posting. compare your fotoprint to your tire marks in the snow or sand. The only difference is that your footprints are interrupted. to witness, both are zero velocity impacts. clear imprints. perfect for harvesting gum, nails.
sprinters have a long interval between contacts. Old men like me have always 2 feet on the ground, even when scurrying.

 

[nebel]

Nonsense. For example, Jupiter rotates on its axis once every 10 hours. In that time, each side of the planet is exposed to sunlight for 5 hours, approximately. What's this "twice longer" business about? Where did you get that idea?

The equator of Jupiter, has long been known to have unexplained, excess heating. The present theory proposed, that it is the curtate cycloid motion of the jupiter middle regions, and prolate situation on Saturn contribute to this.
The following link says that heat from the poles is somehow transported to the equator in waves. Be that is may, Auroras are generated from outside influences, and so would be the "harvesting proposed in the "zero orbital velocity zones" near the equators of the Jupiter and Saturn.

"This 'energy crisis' has been a long standing issue -- do the models fail to properly model how heat flows from the aurora, or is there some other unknown heat source near the equator? " from:
University of Leicester. "Space scientists reveal secret behind Jupiter's 'energy crisis'." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 4 August 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210804123339.htm>.

see also the related topic: " ---orbital, rotational velocities cancel ?" .