Jews

No just truthful...the old Nazi/Israeli conception of Jews as a distinct race has long been debunked.
I agree, there really I only the human race, but some sub division do have gene pools that on average have common characteristic, most noticeable is skin color that is quite distinct from other sub groups but in the modern world a great deal of "mixing" has also occurred.

Yes there are many erroneous meanings, but only ONE true definition. The laws of Israel quoted above only delay discovering the true definition by pushing it back in time. ...
Pray, tell what is this truth, the one Israelis are delaying that you arrogantly claimed to know better than they about what defines a Jew.
 
I think one of the issues people might be having with the idea of recognizing Judaism as an ethnic national identity, is that they view their own cultures as secular and pluralized without realizing how far this is from genuinely being true, and they don't understand that many Jews don't find these cultures to be either appealing or inclusive even in the modern age. America, for instance, is still very much a devoutly religious Christian nation with an overwhelmingly Christian heritage and constant intrusions of the Christian church into affairs of the state. Ironically, that same Christian zealotry which drives so many Jews away from the idea of immigrating to the US, is also one of the chief sources of US backing for the Israeli state, even though the Jews get blamed and stereotyped for this support no differently than they were in Shakespeare's time. Culturally, America's a nation many around the globe wish to emulate on a certain level, but there are plenty of aspects in American culture and society that other freedom-loving people most certainly do not wish to duplicate or be a part of, and wouldn't even if every American was sworn to atheism from birth.
 
A recent poll reported in the Washington Post turned up the amazing statistic that Jews are the least religious demographic group in America. Belief in God, the role of religion in their lives and attendance at worship services are only important to a small minority of them, notably the Chassidim.

Although many in the American Jewish community feel strongly about their identity as Jews, that identity is not defined by religion. When offered a list of attributes and asked which were essential parts of being Jewish, the top four choices were:
  • 1. Remembering the Holocaust
  • 2. Leading an ethical and moral life
  • 3. Working for justice and equality
  • 4. Intellectual curiosity
 
A recent poll reported in the Washington Post turned up the amazing statistic that Jews are the least religious demographic group in America. Belief in God, the role of religion in their lives and attendance at worship services are only important to a small minority of them, notably the Chassidim.

Although many in the American Jewish community feel strongly about their identity as Jews, that identity is not defined by religion. When offered a list of attributes and asked which were essential parts of being Jewish, the top four choices were:
  • 1. Remembering the Holocaust
  • 2. Leading an ethical and moral life
  • 3. Working for justice and equality
  • 4. Intellectual curiosity

But the fundamentals from the Torah are implanted in them 3 of the 4 choices. which are older then the enlightenment period
 
A recent poll reported in the Washington Post turned up the amazing statistic that Jews are the least religious demographic group in America. Belief in God, the role of religion in their lives and attendance at worship services are only important to a small minority of them, notably the Chassidim.

Although many in the American Jewish community feel strongly about their identity as Jews, that identity is not defined by religion. When offered a list of attributes and asked which were essential parts of being Jewish, the top four choices were:
  • 1. Remembering the Holocaust
  • 2. Leading an ethical and moral life
  • 3. Working for justice and equality
  • 4. Intellectual curiosity

If you went around polling American Jews and asking them which figure they'd rather have removed from history, Einstein or Moses, I'd be very interested in seeing the results.
 
But the fundamentals from the Torah are implanted in them 3 of the 4 choices. which are older then the enlightenment period

Whether deserved or not, Jews have a worldwide reputation for academic pursuits. Many would tell you that this tendency comes from a rabbinical tradition that encourages followers to ask questions and not simply to follow teachings blindly. However, it seems to me that when a rabbi expects you to ask questions, they also generally expect you to accept their answers, so it's not a true intellectual openness. I'd think the Jews' modern academic reputation stems from habits they picked up whilst living throughout Europe and the Middle East, being constantly placed in positions where only the most useful and capable amongst them were able to survive and raise families.
 
Whether deserved or not, Jews have a worldwide reputation for academic pursuits. Many would tell you that this tendency comes from a rabbinical tradition that encourages followers to ask questions and not simply to follow teachings blindly. However, it seems to me that when a rabbi expects you to ask questions, they also generally expect you to accept their answers, so it's not a true intellectual openness. I'd think the Jews' modern academic reputation stems from habits they picked up whilst living throughout Europe and the Middle East, being constantly placed in positions where only the most useful and capable amongst them were able to survive and raise families.

In Judaism there are different sect. From young are a religious Jew is encouraged to read the Torah and uphold the holiday and celebrating the holidays is not only celebrate but commemorate the meaning. such as to live a righteous life . A secular Jew does not practice , he is a Jew by name only
 
But the fundamentals from the Torah are implanted in them 3 of the 4 choices. which are older then the enlightenment period
Sure. But they regard these fundamentals as simply a good way to live, not necessarily something "divine" or "holy."

Whether deserved or not, Jews have a worldwide reputation for academic pursuits. Many would tell you that this tendency comes from a rabbinical tradition that encourages followers to ask questions and not simply to follow teachings blindly. However, it seems to me that when a rabbi expects you to ask questions, they also generally expect you to accept their answers, so it's not a true intellectual openness.
Not true, unless you're an outsider wanting to marry into the tribe or something like that. Anyone can be a "rabbi" in the Jewish community, not just the guy at the temple with the formal title and the salary. Any scholar can be called a rabbi if he seems to be wise and a good communicator.

So when a rabbi answers your questions, he's not at all taken aback if you question his answers. They'll be happy to go on like this all night. After all, this is the way knowledge is discovered, not by something you read in a book from the Bronze Age.

I'd think the Jews' modern academic reputation stems from habits they picked up whilst living throughout Europe and the Middle East, being constantly placed in positions where only the most useful and capable amongst them were able to survive and raise families.
Historians say that the Jews have been treated this way since they first appeared as a people.

Even the ancient Egyptians weren't too happy with them. Only the Chinese treated them as equals. Other cultures have treated them with considerably more kindness than the Europeans and the people in the Middle East, but even the Americans have been hard on them... just not quite as hard as they were on people of African ancestry.

Actually, Iran has the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside of Israel. There's even a Jewish guy in their parliament.

In Judaism there are different sect. From young are a religious Jew is encouraged to read the Torah and uphold the holiday and celebrating the holidays is not only celebrate but commemorate the meaning. such as to live a righteous life . A secular Jew does not practice , he is a Jew by name only
You missed the point that "Jewish" is three somewhat different things: religion, ancestry, or community. You can call yourself a Jew if you have any one of those.

As the survey demonstrated, most American Jews are not very religious, yet they are adamant about being classified as Jewish.

Being "Chinese" is not about religion either, but plenty of people in America identify themselves as Chinese.
 
A secular Jew does not practice , he is a Jew by name only

He could also be a Jew by virtue of heritage, upbringing, culture, and happening to share a similar mindset, outlook and background in common with many other people who also calls themselves Jews. Even amongst the secular Jews, I'll bet most of them have a fair bit of experience with Jewish holidays, prayer services and the Hebrew language, just as many atheists of Christian descent still go to church every once in a while.

Also the definition of Jew needs to be broadened beyond a specific race or religious view. There are lots of black American converts who don't have any known Jewish ancestry (although many of them believe themselves to have such ancestry all the same), and recently the Israeli state gave official recognition to several such groups. I see Judaism more as a sort of brotherhood, personally.
 
CptBorks. I see Judaism more as a sort of brotherhood said:
Just like Christian Muslim , Hindi and others .
By the way:

Jewish family ties. New genetics research could shake up current assumptions about Ashkenazi origins.

Modern Jews may traditionally trace their ancestry to the Holy Land, but a new genetic study finds otherwise. A detailed look at thousands of genomes finds that Ashkenazim—who make up roughly 80% of the world’s Jews, including 90% of those in America and half of those in Israel—ultimately came not from the Middle East, but from Western Europe, perhaps Italy.

Most mainstream historians regard Ashkenazim as the descendants of Jews who moved into central Europe from the Middle East sometime before the 12th century C.E. Ashekenazim, like most members of this religious, cultural, and ethnic group, traditionally trace their ancestry to the ancient Israelites. The Israelites, in turn, arose between 3000 and 4000 years ago in the Middle East, according to both Biblical sources and archaeological evidence. They dispersed after the Romans destroyed their Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

Recent genetic work has supported this traditional view. Two studies, one led by geneticist Harry Ostrer of the New York University School of Medicine, and the other by geneticist Doron Behar of the Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa, Israel, traced the three main Diaspora groups—Ashkenazim, Sephardim from Spain and Portugal, and Oriental Jews from the Middle East—to people who all lived in the Middle East about 2000 years ago. The Ostrer study used DNA from the nucleus of the cell in its analyses, and the Behar study used both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA); the latter comes from tiny bodies in the living cell that provide it with energy. Many other researchers considered these results to be definitive at the time.

Yet there were lingering questions. Ostrer and Behar had samples from only a couple of hundred Jews, for example. And while the Behar group identified four major mtDNA “founder groups” for the Ashkenazim, all supposedly with roots in the Middle East, it was able to trace only about 40% of Ashkenazi ancestry overall.

So a different team of scientists, led by geneticist Martin Richards at the University of Huddersfield in the United Kingdom, embarked on a new search for the origins of these four founder groups. The team focused on mtDNA, which is often employed in genetic studies because it is easier to sequence and allows analysis of huge population samples. However, mtDNA is inherited through the mother and not the father, so it reveals the history of maternal lineages only.

Geneticists have identified certain mtDNA markers that define lineages in different parts of the world. Behar’s group had traced the Jewish founder groups to two mtDNA genetic lineages called haplogroup K and haplogroup N1b. The Jewish lineages were nested within these two larger groups, which include both Jews and non-Jews. So Richards and his colleagues first set out to understand the history of these broader lineages. They analyzed about 2500 complete and 28,000 partial mtDNA genomes of mostly non-Jews worldwide, plus 836 partial mtDNA genomes of Ashkenazi Jews, to see where the Ashkenazim fit into the overall history.

The result was very clear-cut, the authors say: As reported online today in Nature Communications, more than 80% of Ashkenazi mtDNAs had their origins thousands of years ago in Western Europe, during or before Biblical times—and in some cases even before farming came to that part of the continent some 7500 years ago. The closest matches were with mtDNAs from people who today live in and around Italy. The results imply that the Jews can trace their heritage to women who had lived in Europe at that time. Very few Ashkenazi mtDNAs could be traced to the Middle East.

The results not only conflict with the Ostrer and Behar results, but also with widespread assumptions about Jewish identity. Jews have traditionally considered that the mother determines the ethnic identity of her children. If being Jewish is defined as genetically descending from the Israelites through the maternal line, then many Ashkenazi Jews fail the test, according to this data.

Richards acknowledges that the work is likely to be controversial. “I’d anticipate some resistance to our conclusions in certain quarters,” he says. One way to reconcile his team’s findings with those of other researchers, he says, is to assume that the founders of the male Ashkenazi lineages were indeed originally from the Middle East, but that the maternal line arose in Europe much earlier. The European women then converted to Judaism after male Jews moved into the continent, establishing the Ashkenazi lineages that we see today. That suggestion fits with the contention of some historians that many women converted to Judaism across Mediterranean Europe during the so-called Hellenistic period between about 300 B.C.E. and 30 B.C.E.

“The data are very convincing,” says Antonio Torroni, a geneticist at the University of Pavia in Italy and a leading expert in the genetics of Europeans. He adds that recent studies of DNA from the cell nucleus have also shown “a very close similarity between Ashkenazi Jews and Italians.”

The new data also put the nail in the coffin of another, highly controversial, hypothesis about Jewish ancestry: that the Ashkenazim actually descend from the Khazars, a Turkic people in Western Asia’s Caucasus region whose rulers are known to have converted to Judaism in the 8th century C.E. That idea was promoted in a 2008 book by historian Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University in Israel. Ostrer and Behar found no such link, however, and Richards’s team, which sampled mtDNAs from Asia and the Caucasus specifically to test this idea, also found no evidence for it.

Behar remains unconvinced. He says it’s “clear that Ashkenazi maternal ancestry includes both [Middle Eastern] and European origins,” but he does not agree that the deepest roots of the Ashkenazi Jews can be found in prehistoric Europe. He says that he and his colleagues will be submitting their critique of the Richards study soon to a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy
 
Just like Christian, Muslim, Hindi and others .
You need to brush up on your grammar. "Hindi" is a language, or more properly in the terminology of linguists: Hindi and Urdu are two dialects of the Hindustani language.

The religion is "Hinduism." A practitioner is a "Hindu."

If you want to communicate in English, please use English grammar.
 
Jews had big impact on eastern society as well. Loads of commies were Russian Jewish.
They were desperate after all the pogroms. They hoped that bringing down the Czars would make their lives easier.

They didn't understand that antisemitism is a European attitude, not a Czarist attitude or even a Russian attitude. It was one of the defining traits of European Christendom since it was founded.

There's a reason half the world's Jews live in America. We haven't exactly treated them like honored guests, but at least we haven't burned down their houses.
 
They were desperate after all the pogroms. They hoped that bringing down the Czars would make their lives easier.

They didn't understand that antisemitism is a European attitude, not a Czarist attitude or even a Russian attitude. It was one of the defining traits of European Christendom since it was founded.

There's a reason half the world's Jews live in America. We haven't exactly treated them like honored guests, but at least we haven't burned down their houses.
You are right. Ideas of liberalism, freedom, equality was very alive in oppressed peoples minds. Jews were one of many fighting against old regime. Too bad human factor won and everything out turned out even worse.
America was land of new begging and it wasn't only for Jews. If I recall correctly- there are more Armenians living in USA than in Armenia.
 
You are right. Ideas of liberalism, freedom, equality was very alive in oppressed peoples minds. Jews were one of many fighting against old regime. Too bad human factor won and everything out turned out even worse.
America was land of new begging and it wasn't only for Jews. If I recall correctly- there are more Armenians living in USA than in Armenia.

More Irish than in Ireland.
 
Jews had big impact on eastern society as well. Loads of commies were Russian Jewish.

Yup, but an even larger number of them fled to Israel and the west at the first opportunity, they weren't very welcome at home.

You are right. Ideas of liberalism, freedom, equality was very alive in oppressed peoples minds. Jews were one of many fighting against old regime. Too bad human factor won and everything out turned out even worse.
America was land of new begging and it wasn't only for Jews. If I recall correctly- there are more Armenians living in USA than in Armenia.

I can't imagine a 20th century Czarist regime doing much better to be honest, especially if it were equipped with the killing tools of the machine age. Easy to forget just how bad the Czars were, although perhaps they would have killed more out of incompetence and economic mismanagement rather than by sending people to the gulags for not saluting with enough gusto.

More Irish than in Ireland.

More than could possibly be crammed into all of Ireland if they all wanted to go back to living in the "old country".
 
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