I've never understood why the death of Jesus is important.

[Ivor Bigun]

Evidently his death was a great marketing strategy.

Exactly, but it doesn't work on everybody.
There are lots of suckers.

 

[timojin]

I appreciate that you have put a lot of thought into your response, so I am grateful for that, but none of it helps me understand why the death of Jesus is important.
The reason is that all the answers given to me so far do not actually fly.

A common answer is that Jesus, who is the son of God, died so that we don't have to die.
But he was only dead for a weekend, then came back to life and flew up in the sky to be with his father in Heaven.
And we will die anyway, then very likely be on a one way trip to eternal punishment, which was just the same before he died.

Nothing changed.

If you think something changed, I'd like to know What and How, not just unjustified illogical dogmatic statements.

Did the death of Jesus, God's only son, make God happy or satisfy his demand for blood ?
How can human sacrifice possibly please God ?
Would you be pleased if your son was killed in the place of some other guilty person ?

I can equally address any other reason and dispense with it just as easily.

Anyone can do it.

Therefore I do not understand why the death of Jesus was important.

My father died recently.
That was important.

I imagine for God is important the driver ( soul ) and not the vehicle ( our body )
Apparently the souls are placed in the body for a study on how they can survive in an environment of desire and want.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

His death fulfilled a prophesy

Which one ?

 

[timojin]

Which one ?

Read Isaiah , Jeremiah and Ezekiel .

 

[Ivor Bigun]

what happened after he died

I suspect he rotted or was picked clean by wild animals.
That's what normally happened to dead bodies left hanging up.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

You have to understand the whole complex of practices relating to animal sacrifice in antiquity. Which Second Temple Judaism, at the time, engaged in just as much as the polytheistic religions of the Mediterranean world. The use of a sacrificial figure to expiate the crimes or bad luck of the community was unremarkable, it was commonplace and completely normal. It's just that it was usually a livestock animal. In Christianity, the general belief appears to be that Jesus was anointed to be this expiatory sacrifice for the whole of (originally, the Hebrews, but over time it developed into...) humanity.

But there are, of course, variant theological positions. Many of which try to distance themselves from their roots in ancient sacrificial practices.

I have heard this argument before, but if I don't understand animal sacrifice either.
How can killing a sheep please God ?

My father was a butcher and I've seen him cut the throats of chickens, sheep and pigs.
I wasn't pleased.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

^^^
It is not my choice. I CANNOT believe something without proper evidence. I cannot do it.
I cannot believe obvious absurd nonsense. I cannot believe in the horrible cruelty described of the god in the bible.
I cannot believe in the utter stupidity of an omnipotent god being perpetually pissed off because the humans it created are the humans it created them to be. I cannot believe in the absurdity of an omnipotent god blaming puny humans for screwing up its perfect plan which it knew all along would not work out well.
I cannot believe in a savage vindictive monster who would punish people for eternity simply for not believing and/or for what the 1st 2 humans did.

There are many stories & I have no more reason to believe 1 than any of the others.

The story should say that what god does has consequences but god takes no responsibility. IF I burn in hell, it will not be for anything I have done.
Most people believe, or pretend to believe, the story because they were brainwashed & frightened as children then coerced into conformism. Which is a dumb thing to do, to say the least.
The vast majority, if not all, of religion definitely does not increase liberty. It not only directly decreases liberty of individual believers but it also inspires them to try to decrease everyone's liberty.
I do not know why you say YOUR imaginary friend or why you say imaginary FRIEND. If you chose to make that change, that is fine but I said imaginary FIEND.
And until some god gets up the courage to come out of hiding & show itself, it is imaginary.

<>

I am the same. No matter what the attraction or punishment is, I cannot believe.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

Read Isaiah , Jeremiah and Ezekiel .

I've read all of the Bible.
I didn't find any prophecies that are clearly referring to the death of Jesus.
You can pretend that some vague "prediction" fits.
None of them hold water
If I say, it will rain, is that a prophecy ?

 

[Ivor Bigun]

I imagine for God is important the driver ( soul ) and not the vehicle ( our body )
Apparently the souls are placed in the body for a study on how they can survive in an environment of desire and want.

So are you saying God doesn't know in advance ?
That's a new one.
I thought he was supposed to be Omniscient !

 

[Ivor Bigun]

Raised Catholic, I had been told countless times that "he died for my sins."

I have never understood what that's supposed to mean. Is it really just the guilt trip?

Probably.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

^^^
His death did not fulfill the Jewish Messiah prophecy. The prophecy was not for a god or sonofagod or 1 third of a god to die on a cross. It was for a MAN sent by god to lead the Jews & overcome their oppressors, which Jesus did not do. Christians claim Jesus fulfilled some prophecy but Jews who the prophecy was for recognize that Jesus was not their Messiah & clearly did not do what their Messiah was to do.
Other than the biased scripture, there are no records of him rising from the dead. The supposed news did not get around.

<>

Correct. The Christians were puzzled by the death of Jesus so that had to make up some reason. They failed. It doesn't work.

 

[timojin]

I am the same. No matter what the attraction or punishment is, I cannot believe.

How about this way : In the old covenant every sin committed by humanity must be payed . So to save humanity some one had to pay , so there come Jesus he was the sacrificial lamb , he was killed , He payed for our sins.
Now we have a new covenant, believe in Jesus and your sins will be fogiven

 

[timojin]

I've read all of the Bible.
I didn't find any prophecies that are clearly referring to the death of Jesus.
You can pretend that some vague "prediction" fits.
None of them hold water
If I say, it will rain, is that a prophecy ?

It all depends how you read, I have read it more then once. Various prophet have predicted pieces on how he was going to suffer ( I will read those 3 prophets for the fourth time, I want to understand God )

 

[timojin]

Correct. The Christians were puzzled by the death of Jesus so that had to make up some reason. They failed. It doesn't work.

You are to fast in pre judging , You read the bible to pre judge and to find faults.

 

[timojin]

So are you saying God doesn't know in advance ?
That's a new one.
I thought he was supposed to be Omniscient !

Again you are to know to much , I don't I am trying to learn

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

You are to fast in pre judging , You read the bible to pre judge and to find faults.

^^^
You prejudge. You read the bible to find support for your belief & until you can read it objectively, you will find in it what you want to find.

<>

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

It all depends how you read, I have read it more then once. Various prophet have predicted pieces on how he was going to suffer ( I will read those 3 prophets for the fourth time, I want to understand God )

^^^
You cannot understand something you have no way to know anything about.

<>

 

[Bowser]

I've never understood why the death of Jesus is important.

My understanding is that he was the perfect sacrifice to atone for our sins, the spotless lamb. Making an offering in much the same way was not uncommon back then. If you accept that Christ was the son of God, then it was probably the first time a god sacrificed himself for the sake of mankind.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

How about this way : In the old covenant every sin committed by humanity must be payed . So to save humanity some one had to pay , so there come Jesus he was the sacrificial lamb , he was killed , He payed for our sins.
Now we have a new covenant, believe in Jesus and your sins will be fogiven

OK let's try a different way.

Suppose I have 7 children, 6 boys and one girl.
They all have pocket money every week.

The boys will not do their homework.
They won't go to bed on time and they are very cheeky.

The girl, on the other hand, always does her homework, goes to bed on time and is respectful.

Basically, the 6 boys are very naughty and the girl is well behaved.

So I have a problem. What can I do about those naughty boys, hmm ?
I don't want to punish them, because I love them.
But I have a strong sense of justice.
Somebody must be punished

So I have a plan.
I think it's a really good plan.

I will take my one and only girl, up to her bedroom.
I will take all her favorite toys off her.
I will confine her to her bedroom for a weekend.
She will have no pocket money next week.

That will satisfy my sense of justice.

 

[Ivor Bigun]

you do not seem capable of identifying why questions of dying in our place, or sacrificing for some manner of justice are important.

Or, let's try this...

My next door neighbor loves cats and I have a cute little puppy named Bengo and he loves biscuits.
The cats come into my garden and dig up my seedlings.
So what can I do about it.

Well suppose I deny Bengo his beloved biscuits for a week.
Would that fix the problem ?