Is it possible that the gravity that keeps our feet planted on the Earth is..

Because that's where the galactic plane intersects with the Earth. Its 60 degrees from the ecliptic, but that is if 0 degrees is on the left. If 0 degrees is on the right, its 120 degrees. http://lifeinthemix2.co.uk/ESW/Images/galactic_cross.jpg?xcache=3511
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc42/Edward_Wolf/EclipticvsEquator-1.png

So I am assuming that you are using the center of the Milky Way as the origin of your coordinate system. The solar systems orbital plane is about 60 degrees offset from the plane of the galaxy but that is just the orientation of the solar system. The vector velocity of the solar system and earth are indepedent of the orientation. The direction of the velocity is essentially 90 degrees or normal to a line drawn from the earth to galactic center.
 
So I am assuming that you are using the center of the Milky Way as the origin of your coordinate system. The solar systems orbital plane is about 60 degrees offset from the plane of the galaxy but that is just the orientation of the solar system. The vector velocity of the solar system and earth are indepedent of the orientation. The direction of the velocity is essentially 90 degrees or normal to a line drawn from the earth to galactic center.

If I understand you correctly, then yes. The velocity is in the direction that the sun travels, if that makes it easier to determine what I am saying. There are drawings of this in my video. I added more links to my post that weren't included in your quote of my reply.
 
If I understand you correctly, then yes. The velocity is in the direction that the sun travels, if that makes it easier to determine what I am saying. There are drawings of this in my video.

Right then the direction is not 120 degrees. It seems that you got the 120 degrees because that is normal or perpendicular to the orientation of the solar system orbital plane, but that is not the direction of travel.
 
Right then the direction is not 120 degrees. It seems that you got the 120 degrees because that is normal or perpendicular to the orientation of the solar system orbital plane, but that is not the direction of travel.

It is for a 2D representation. If that isn't correct, let me know what the correct angle is please.
 
If you need help visualizing how this could create the normal force on your body against the surface, think of the Earth constantly "throwing" you tangent to its rotation.
The only way to throw something is by application of force. There is no such west-east force. If there were there would be all kinds of problems which do not exist. A ball on a flat level surface would not remain stationary. All of our science projects and experiments would go out the window. Literally. That's just for starters. You seem to have a vague sense of how a centrifuge works, except of course you are applying the force in the wrong direction. Worst of all you are denying the gravitational attraction that exists regardless of whether an object is in motion or not.

This is where the mass of a planet vs. the mass of your body come into play.
Only from the static gravitational field which is a function the two masses under the inverse-square law. You are stuck with this law, and couldn't repeal it, even if you were God.

The more massive a planet is, and the faster it rotates, the more momentum it is going to have when it collides with your body after this "throw".
There is no collision, and the mass of the Earth has nothing to do with what you said.

The inertia of the planet and the inertia of your body create the normal force during this collision.
If this were remotely true, aircraft couldn't fall from the sky. You would see problems exactly the opposite of crashes. There would be nothing to bring them down, in fact. They would need to fire their engines opposite of the way the Osprey does, just to land. Plus, everything that hops would remain airborne indefinitely. The sky would be littered with orbiting kangaroo carcasses. By now they would have evolved into ground hugging forms with suction cups, like all other creatures. Everything kicked up by the wind would remain in the sky indefinitely. The air would be incredibly thick with debris from all past volcanism, etc. There would be no visible light in the sky. I presume it would be hotter than hell. Come to think of it, there could be no life on Earth, so forget the orbiting kangaroos. It would just be a dark hot hell with no one to discover the universal law of gravitation. And no Sci to post dingbat ideas. No ding, no bat, no ideas. Nada.

The speed of a planet's rotation is also what helps it grow to a great mass.
Incorrect. The amount of particles in the vicinity of the centroid of mass during accretion are all that matters.

The faster a planet rotates, the harder the collision will be as it "throws" less massive bits of space debris into its surface while it "clears its neighborhood".
None of that is true. Existing particles accrete due to gravity.

It also makes it harder for those bits to fly off the surface into space.
Incorrect. Anything that "sticks" to a planet does so according to the Law of Gravity.

This works best with inelastic collisions for obvious reasons, but will also work with elastic collisions as the object will lose momentum every time it collides with the surface.
Not on Earth. Meteors burn during their descent due to friction, and what's left gets buried in water of land. Of course there can be no collisions, inelastic or elastic once you repeal the law of gravity. All of physics breaks. Everything ends up in the sky and it's curtains.

The more massive the planet is, the more momentum it has,
Incorrect. Momentum arises from the kinetic energy of the particles that formed the planet. It's a question of conservation of energy - another law you want to overturn. Can't be done. Not even in a dead world.

Here is how to find the angular momentum of a planet.

and the more massive the bits of debris it can keep on its surface.
Mass would make no difference, only the question of whether the object ever left the surface. The entire top of Mt St Helens would be floating in the sky, along with Pinatubo and every other eruption ever. Leaves would separate from trees and just hang there. Of course none of them would actually exist so that's a stretch. Water is massive but it would be stuck up in the sky. Make that a dark, hot parched earth with no dust. A rock with mud suspended above it. Also the atmosphere would have a lot carbon and nitrogen (probably methane- ammonia). Yeah, Hell on Earth.

Wait there's more - without gravitational attraction Earth could not form. No Sun, no planets, no galaxies - and no center of the galaxy at all. So wow the whole thing completely falls apart.

It's like a Katamari Damacy.
A clue perhaps? Are you Pincho. That's my guess. I'd like the free Sci T shirt given for being first to nail ya. :spank:


Now do you see it the way I see it?l
Yes, but it's entirely wrong.

The question is, do you see it the way actually Nature does it?

What is your game anyway, pard?
 
The only way to throw something is by application of force. There is no such west-east force. If there were there would be all kinds of problems which do not exist. A ball on a flat level surface would not remain stationary. All of our science projects and experiments would go out the window. Literally. That's just for starters. You seem to have a vague sense of how a centrifuge works, except of course you are applying the force in the wrong direction. Worst of all you are denying the gravitational attraction that exists regardless of whether an object is in motion or not.


Only from the static gravitational field which is a function the two masses under the inverse-square law. You are stuck with this law, and couldn't repeal it, even if you were God.


There is no collision, and the mass of the Earth has nothing to do with what you said.


If this were remotely true, aircraft couldn't fall from the sky. You would see problems exactly the opposite of crashes. There would be nothing to bring them down, in fact. They would need to fire their engines opposite of the way the Osprey does, just to land. Plus, everything that hops would remain airborne indefinitely. The sky would be littered with orbiting kangaroo carcasses. By now they would have evolved into ground hugging forms with suction cups, like all other creatures. Everything kicked up by the wind would remain in the sky indefinitely. The air would be incredibly thick with debris from all past volcanism, etc. There would be no visible light in the sky. I presume it would be hotter than hell. Come to think of it, there could be no life on Earth, so forget the orbiting kangaroos. It would just be a dark hot hell with no one to discover the universal law of gravitation. And no Sci to post dingbat ideas. No ding, no bat, no ideas. Nada.


Incorrect. The amount of particles in the vicinity of the centroid of mass during accretion are all that matters.


None of that is true. Existing particles accrete due to gravity.


Incorrect. Anything that "sticks" to a planet does so according to the Law of Gravity.


Not on Earth. Meteors burn during their descent due to friction, and what's left gets buried in water of land. Of course there can be no collisions, inelastic or elastic once you repeal the law of gravity. All of physics breaks. Everything ends up in the sky and it's curtains.


Incorrect. Momentum arises from the kinetic energy of the particles that formed the planet. It's a question of conservation of energy - another law you want to overturn. Can't be done. Not even in a dead world.

Here is how to find the angular momentum of a planet.


Mass would make no difference, only the question of whether the object ever left the surface. The entire top of Mt St Helens would be floating in the sky, along with Pinatubo and every other eruption ever. Leaves would separate from trees and just hang there. Of course none of them would actually exist so that's a stretch. Water is massive but it would be stuck up in the sky. Make that a dark, hot parched earth with no dust. A rock with mud suspended above it. Also the atmosphere would have a lot carbon and nitrogen (probably methane- ammonia). Yeah, Hell on Earth.

Wait there's more - without gravitational attraction Earth could not form. No Sun, no planets, no galaxies - and no center of the galaxy at all. So wow the whole thing completely falls apart.


A clue perhaps? Are you Pincho. That's my guess. I'd like the free Sci T shirt given for being first to nail ya. :spank:



Yes, but it's entirely wrong.

The question is, do you see it the way actually Nature does it?

What is your game anyway, pard?


So do you believe in mass attraction or curvature of space time? Because the whole reason Eistein pursued what ended up being tensor field theory was because he didn't believe that an object could reach out across the heavens and pull something towards it.

So, which is it? Newton or Einstein? If its Einstein, then what determines the acceleration?

Like I said before, I have a meeting with a physicist this coming Wednesday. I don't need to convince you guys. He will hopefully help me express my theory with math that you will be able to understand.
 
So do you believe in mass attraction or curvature of space time? Because the whole reason Eistein pursued what ended up being tensor field theory was because he didn't believe that an object could reach out across the heavens and pull something towards it.

Actually no, it's to do with the fact that Newton's gravitational law doesn't give self-consistent results when Special Relativity is factored in, and it allows for faster than light signals which can also cause problems.

So, which is it? Newton or Einstein? If its Einstein, then what determines the acceleration?

Newton's law turns out to be just a weak field approximation to Einstein's theory, so it works well when calculating planetary orbits, gravity on small planets, large radius orbits around black holes and such, but it goes astray in other cases. So for the last 100 years or so, we've gone with Einstein's theory. What determines the acceleration of an object under gravity is that the curvature of spacetime alters the way inertial reference frames move relative to other frames.
 
Like I said before, I have a meeting with a physicist this coming Wednesday. I don't need to convince you guys. He will hopefully help me express my theory with math that you will be able to understand.

Good, maybe a face to face meeting will help you to understand gravity a little bit.

I think most the people here understand what you are saying, we just happen to also understand what you are saying in wrong. If the meeting you are having is with a real physicist then you will hopefully come away with a better understanding of physics but I fear you will not get any support for your ideas, if that is what you are looking for.

Good luck.
 
So do you believe in mass attraction or curvature of space time?
It's not a matter of belief. it's a matter of knowledge. Yes, general relativity (GR) is correct, spacetime curvature is a consequence of mass. Newton was correct enough though. My intent on getting you to focus on Newton's Law is that there is not much point in trying to insert GR into a discussion where you aren't even applying statics and mechanics correctly.

Because the whole reason Einstein pursued what ended up being tensor field theory was because he didn't believe that an object could reach out across the heavens and pull something towards it.
I doubt that's a fair reduction of his overall world view or motive. One thing is for sure, he never once doubted that the states of matter are often attended by fields. Just as a point charge will reach out across the heavens and pull an oppositely charged particle towards it, there is no reason to be uneasy with the fact that mass reaches out and grabs another mass in the same way. Of course our perspective changes when we realize what Einstein (and others) discovered - spacetime curvature. Just as Newton had to invent Calculus as the arithmetic that relates problems of his day (esp orbital mechanics), Einstein also needed to invent a new math that operates on spacetime, hence his tensor arithmetic.

So, which is it? Newton or Einstein?
If I want to calculate the strength of a beam to ensure that a structure won't fall down, I barely even need Newton. But I can prove my calculations are correct by working back to Newton's Law. That's why it's still a vital piece of information for anyone doing practical real-world work. The applications in curved spacetime are not that practical or useful. That is, you will end up with the same amount of force impinging on the beam regardless of which one you apply*. GR has been practical in special cases, like GPS, which requires corrections for spacetime curvature in order to work.

Einstein gave us elegant theories which are now known to be correct. The value of theoretical knowledge is that it drives innovation, which yields an explosion of new ways to solve practical problems.

In short, it's not a choice. Both kinds of knowledge are crucial to our understanding of the world, and the many options we have to overcome the many barriers and threats to our survival that the natural world imposes on us.

*By applying GR, you could maybe add or subtract one molecule of thickness to the beam based on its altitude. That's of course entirely frivolous to bridge design

If its Einstein, then what determines the acceleration?
In GR Newton's gravitational acceleration has a dual; that is, there a corresponding explanation for the things we describe as "force" and "acceleration", which is explained by Einstein's description of spacetime curvature. In a sense it's very simple; mass distorts spacetime. Thus, the trajectory of an object will be deflected (the path of a plane is now wrapped onto a sphere). It's quite obvious from this that a cannonball will have to follow a parabolic trajectory. Of course the harder part is trying to reconcile our more familiar concepts of Euclidean space with the non-Euclidean space, especially since the math involves some rather esoteric details.

Like I said before, I have a meeting with a physicist this coming Wednesday.
You've already had meetings with physicists, chemists, engineers, and other students of physics right here at Sci. You won't hear anything different from a physicist than what you're hearing here.

I don't need to convince you guys. He will hopefully help me express my theory with math that you will be able to understand.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no math to support what you've said. You'll get more on that on Wednesday.


Feel free to ask, though. There are plenty of good technical people here who can help you understand basic physics.
 
It's not a matter of belief. it's a matter of knowledge. Yes, general relativity (GR) is correct, spacetime curvature is a consequence of mass. Newton was correct enough though. My intent on getting you to focus on Newton's Law is that there is not much point in trying to insert GR into a discussion where you aren't even applying statics and mechanics correctly.


I doubt that's a fair reduction of his overall world view or motive. One thing is for sure, he never once doubted that the states of matter are often attended by fields. Just as a point charge will reach out across the heavens and pull an oppositely charged particle towards it, there is no reason to be uneasy with the fact that mass reaches out and grabs another mass in the same way. Of course our perspective changes when we realize what Einstein (and others) discovered - spacetime curvature. Just as Newton had to invent Calculus as the arithmetic that relates problems of his day (esp orbital mechanics), Einstein also needed to invent a new math that operates on spacetime, hence his tensor arithmetic.


If I want to calculate the strength of a beam to ensure that a structure won't fall down, I barely even need Newton. But I can prove my calculations are correct by working back to Newton's Law. That's why it's still a vital piece of information for anyone doing practical real-world work. The applications in curved spacetime are not that practical or useful. That is, you will end up with the same amount of force impinging on the beam regardless of which one you apply*. GR has been practical in special cases, like GPS, which requires corrections for spacetime curvature in order to work.

Einstein gave us elegant theories which are now known to be correct. The value of theoretical knowledge is that it drives innovation, which yields an explosion of new ways to solve practical problems.

In short, it's not a choice. Both kinds of knowledge are crucial to our understanding of the world, and the many options we have to overcome the many barriers and threats to our survival that the natural world imposes on us.

*By applying GR, you could maybe add or subtract one molecule of thickness to the beam based on its altitude. That's of course entirely frivolous to bridge design


In GR Newton's gravitational acceleration has a dual; that is, there a corresponding explanation for the things we describe as "force" and "acceleration", which is explained by Einstein's description of spacetime curvature. In a sense it's very simple; mass distorts spacetime. Thus, the trajectory of an object will be deflected (the path of a plane is now wrapped onto a sphere). It's quite obvious from this that a cannonball will have to follow a parabolic trajectory. Of course the harder part is trying to reconcile our more familiar concepts of Euclidean space with the non-Euclidean space, especially since the math involves some rather esoteric details.


You've already had meetings with physicists, chemists, engineers, and other students of physics right here at Sci. You won't hear anything different from a physicist than what you're hearing here.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no math to support what you've said. You'll get more on that on Wednesday.


Feel free to ask, though. There are plenty of good technical people here who can help you understand basic physics.

I'm willing to accept tensor field theory, it makes sense to me.

What I am saying is that if we have curvature of space-time and inertia and the momentum from the movement I described, we don't need mass attraction to explain gravity.

You might ask, "What about the Cavendish Experiment that showed mass attraction between two non-moving objects?". The Cavendish Experiment can be explained with tensor fields and the movement of the Earth. My issue with that experiment is that it was done on a non-inertial frame. The Earth is rotating and Foucoult proved that the surface of the Earth is a non-inertial frame. You have a constant movement around a sphere that will cause a very small, but measurable amount of acceleration. Then you have the tension on the surface and structure of whatever you are suspending the lead balls from. Whichever small ball is closest to one of the tensor fields caused by the larger ball will move towards it at a rate dictated by the constant acceleration of the Earth's rotation and the inertia of each ball. It basically only measures the inertia of a known measurement of mass. Of course that information is useful for estimating the gravity of a planet, it's pretty much the same thing, but it doesn't mean that mass is actually attracted to other mass.

Even the GRAIL gravity maps could be explained this way. Anything that causes pressure between the surface of the Earth and a satellite will cause variations in the "gravitational field". It could be radiation pressure, since radiation is absorbed by more dense material and reflected by less dense material, it could create a measurement just like what they map with the GRAIL satellites. Hell, that could even explain the eccentricity of orbits if both the center of the Galaxy and the Sun are "competing" forces where the planets both reflect the radiation pressure and block it from pushing other planets and moons towards and away when they get between another planet or moon and the center of the galaxy or the Sun. That would be interesting.
 
I'm willing to accept tensor field theory, it makes sense to me.

What I am saying is that if we have curvature of space-time and inertia and the momentum from the movement I described, we don't need mass attraction to explain gravity.

You might ask, "What about the Cavendish Experiment that showed mass attraction between two non-moving objects?". The Cavendish Experiment can be explained with tensor fields and the movement of the Earth. My issue with that experiment is that it was done on a non-inertial frame. The Earth is rotating and Foucoult proved that the surface of the Earth is a non-inertial frame. You have a constant movement around a sphere that will cause a very small, but measurable amount of acceleration. Then you have the tension on the surface and structure of whatever you are suspending the lead balls from. Whichever small ball is closest to one of the tensor fields caused by the larger ball will move towards it at a rate dictated by the constant acceleration of the Earth's rotation and the inertia of each ball. It basically only measures the inertia of a known measurement of mass. Of course that information is useful for estimating the gravity of a planet, it's pretty much the same thing, but it doesn't mean that mass is actually attracted to other mass.

If the rotation of the earth was a problem for the Cavendish experiment (which it is not) then there results should vary with the orientation of the aparatus, which is not seen.
 
If the rotation of the earth was a problem for the Cavendish experiment (which it is not) then there results should vary with the orientation of the aparatus, which is not seen.

Why would the orientation matter, it is balanced and each ball is a fixed distance from its counterpart. It's not a pendulum.
 
Albert and Issac are both correct. It is measurable. There is much more, though. They just barely skimmed the surface.
 
Albert and Issac are both correct. It is measurable. There is much more, though. They just barely skimmed the surface.

How is that not contradictory though. If the curvature of space time is what makes objects curve towards massive objects, then why do we need mass attraction and vice versa? Why does the Earth and its surface move in such a way that could create normal force they is more ore less equal anywhere you stand? Why does nobody else see a problem with ignoring that? If we can't ignore it, then we have to reevaluate the other theories.
 
Why would the orientation matter, it is balanced and each ball is a fixed distance from its counterpart. It's not a pendulum.

A agree orientation is not a problem. You are the one that implied orientation is a problem by your insistance that momentum is somehow responsible for gravity.
 
A agree orientation is not a problem. You are the one that implied orientation is a problem by your insistance that momentum is somehow responsible for gravity.

How about we turn this into a thread where we evaluate the motion of the earth and its surface relative to a person standing on it. I've already explained myself about it, doesn't anyone think it has anything at all to do with contributing to gravity? I don't see how it could not.
 
How is that not contradictory though. If the curvature of space time is what makes objects curve towards massive objects, then why do we need mass attraction and vice versa?

The curvature of space time by mass is what we interpret as mass attraction. Newtonian mechanics does a very good job of expressing the curvature of space time based on the mass of 2 objects.

Why does the Earth and its surface move in such a way that could create normal force they is more ore less equal anywhere you stand?

It doesn't. The normal force is just the counteracting force from gravity, it is not a movement of the earth.

Why does nobody else see a problem with ignoring that?

No one ignores normal forces that is taught in the most basic physics courses.

If we can't ignore it, then we have to reevaluate the other theories.

Nobody ignores it, like I said, and science is always ready to evaluate other theories. You have presented your idea and it was evaluated and rejected - it will never go beyond youtube because it is demonstrable wrong.
 
How about we turn this into a thread where we evaluate the motion of the earth and its surface relative to a person standing on it. I've already explained myself about it, doesn't anyone think it has anything at all to do with contributing to gravity? I don't see how it could not.

I realize you don't understand. Many people have tried to explain it to you without success. Hopefully your face to face meeting with the physicist will help you understand.

good luck
 
I realize you don't understand. Many people have tried to explain it to you without success. Hopefully your face to face meeting with the physicist will help you understand.

good luck

How does the Earth's surface move you around with it? Does it push you or pull you?
 
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