Is Hawking any closer to solving the puzzle of black holes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation#Trans-Planckian_problem

The trans-Planckian problem is nowadays mostly considered a mathematical artifact of horizon calculations.



http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/einsteinlight/jw/module6_Planck.htm



http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-physical-significance-of-the-Planck-Length
We don't know of anything that proves that the Planck length is a special scale, except for maybe one or two circumstances.

http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-m...han-the-Planck-length-makes-no-physical-sense
It is not necessarily the case that spatial distances smaller than the Planck length make no physical sense; it is just that we could never hope to observe or ...

 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation#Trans-Planckian_problem
The trans-Planckian problem is nowadays mostly considered a mathematical artifact of horizon calculations.
Wikipedia is, of course, not really reputable, but, ok, for you it is sufficient. In fact, I agree that it is "mostly considered" that way and ignored. This was what I have done too, until I have looked a little bit more at the details.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-physical-significance-of-the-Planck-Length
We don't know of anything that proves that the Planck length is a special scale, except for maybe one or two circumstances.
Hm, the mentioned circumstances are quite interesting, so why don't you quote them?
The only thing we are really sure about is that quantum field theory without gravity must break down around the Planck scale, which is an energy related to the Plank length. We know we can't use our current particle physics theories to talk about what happens at distances shorter than the Planck length because the effects of gravity must become very strong at those scales.
The safest statement is something like "We're almost certain that something interesting has to happen at distances shorter than the Planck length, but we really have no idea what."
And that's why any computations which depend on nontrivial assumptions for distances much below Planck length are, at best, wild speculation.
http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-m...han-the-Planck-length-makes-no-physical-sense
It is not necessarily the case that spatial distances smaller than the Planck length make no physical sense; it is just that we could never hope to observe or ...
Correct. For example, in the quantization of my ether theory, there would be smaller distances than Planck length.

Thanks also for linking the Hawking paper. The trans-Planckian problem is hidden there behind the following quote:
For \(\varepsilon\) small these wave packets will have frequency \(j\varepsilon$ and peaked around retarded time \(u = 2\pi n \varepsilon^{-1}\) with width \(\varepsilon^{-1}\)
\ldots
For wave-packets which reach \({\mathscr{I}^+}\) at late retarded times, i.e. those with large values of n, the main contribution \ldots come from very high frequencies \(\omega'\) of the order of \(\exp(2\pi n \kappa \epsilon^{-1})\).
 
Wikipedia is, of course, not really reputable, but, ok, for you it is sufficient. In fact, I agree that it is "mostly considered" that way and ignored. This was what I have done too, until I have looked a little bit more at the details.
I have already said that re Wiki, but it does reflect some truth, and certainly correctly placed this Planckian problem which you raised with such certainty and vigour in invalidating HR, as rather inconsequential and doubtful.


Hm, the mentioned circumstances are quite interesting, so why don't you quote them?
I don't have access to QUORA, but as usual in trying to get out from under, you have missed the message.


Thanks also for linking the Hawking paper. The trans-Planckian problem is hidden there behind the following quote:
The issue which you are trying to avoid is whether this Planckian problem is totally factual and whether it totally invalidates HR, which you would like to claim. It doesn't.
Like I said, HR although not as yet properly observed, is based on pretty strong quantum aspects.

But as I have asked you before, why try and deride a non scientist lay person such as myself? Why not spend your time, spreading your off the cuff, non mainstream ideas to other professionals....
And with your ether theory, [since you couldn't help but raise it again] it remains still a theory in the lay person's general acceptance of the word, certainly not as is accepted in the scientific theory definition.
You really need to do better...in both science and politics.
 
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I have already said that re Wiki, but it does reflect some truth, and certainly correctly placed this Planckian problem which you raised with such certainty and vigour in invalidating HR, as rather inconsequential and doubtful.
As if you were able to evaluate if it is correct to ignore it as inconsequential or doubtful.
The issue which you are trying to avoid is whether this Planckian problem is totally factual and whether it totally invalidates HR, which you would like to claim. It doesn't.
Like I said, HR although not as yet properly observed, is based on pretty strong quantum aspects.
The formulas are obviously factual. They are part of Hawkings paper, which you have posted, and I have quoted.

The "pretty strong quantum aspects" are simply the agreement of quantum field theory with observation, with observation being restricted to what LHC and cosmic radiation can reach. Which is much much less than Planck energy \(M_{Pl}\) .

Now you can, of course, think that this theory remains valid for energies of \(10^{4 000}M_{Pl}\), to obtain the prediction that Hawking radiation will last at least one week. And think that such an extension is "pretty strong". Your choice.

Given that the point is that there is a very strong argument that for energies of the order of the Planck mass \(M_{Pl}\) the theory will become quite different, namely it will be a theory of quantum gravity which we don't know yet, we cannot say anything about energies of order \(10^{4 000}M_{Pl}\). But that means, we also cannot exclude that the unknown true theory will give Hawking radiation. This is certainly something we cannot exclude in principle, given that such an exclusion would be already a nontrivial statement about this unknown theory. So, it is not my claim. In the only reasonable approach to quantum gravity, Hawking radiation would stop a short time after the collapse, but I cannot exclude the existence of theories of quantum gravity which predict Hawking radiation for long time.
But as I have asked you before, why try and deride a non scientist lay person such as myself? Why not spend your time, spreading your off the cuff, non mainstream ideas to other professionals....
I discuss such things with everybody interested in such a discussion, that's all. But, of course, I'm not a stalker. So, if somebody is not interested in discussing anything with me, I will leave him alone. In particular, if you are no longer interested in a discussion with me, you can simply stop answering. The same holds for string theorists. Once they are not interested in my theories and arguments, and prefer to ignore them, this is their decision, and I have nothing to object. Everybody has the right to be ignorant about whatever he prefers to ignore.
And with your ether theory, [since you couldn't help but raise it again] it remains still a theory in the lay person's general acceptance of the word, certainly not as is accepted in the scientific theory definition.
Your definition of what is a scientific theory is nonsense.
 
I discuss such things with everybody interested in such a discussion, that's all. But, of course, I'm not a stalker. So, if somebody is not interested in discussing anything with me, I will leave him alone. In particular, if you are no longer interested in a discussion with me, you can simply stop answering. The same holds for string theorists. Once they are not interested in my theories and arguments, and prefer to ignore them, this is their decision, and I have nothing to object. Everybody has the right to be ignorant about whatever he prefers to ignore.
All I'm interested in is showing that all you have is an opinion and that opinion when taken in context, is not totally accepted, which you seem unable to accept.
Your definition of what is a scientific theory is nonsense.
No, my definition of a scientific theory is correct and aligns with what is generally defined as a scientific theory.
That includes the fact that scientific theories grow in certainty the longer they match observations and make successful predictions.
Newtonian mechanics is very near certain within its zones of applicability and SR/GR are of course both very near certain extending those zones, the BB is not very far behind, and of course Evolution is as factual as it could be.

:)
Now that may get you slightly enraged but that is certainly the way a lot of physicists/cosmologists see things without being battened down by an agenda.
Let me add that if a future QGT or even one of the string derivitives eventually reveal what the nature of spacetime is at the quantum/Planck level, and let's say that we have good evidence that the BB is the arse end of a BH in another Universe, that will not invalidate the BB within its known zones, rather it will extend our model/reasonings just as SE/GR did over and above Newtonian mechanics.

As have previously said, I do realise that HR is not fully verified/validated as yet, all I'm waiting is for you to admit that your own hypotheticals are not as certain as you like to claim.
 
I discuss such things with everybody interested in such a discussion, that's all. But, of course, I'm not a stalker. So, if somebody is not interested in discussing anything with me, I will leave him alone. In particular, if you are no longer interested in a discussion with me, you can simply stop answering. The same holds for string theorists. Once they are not interested in my theories and arguments, and prefer to ignore them, this is their decision, and I have nothing to object. Everybody has the right to be ignorant about whatever he prefers to ignore.

Wow!:rolleyes: I mean so much could be read into what you have just said and so many accusations could be made against your character resulting from that one paragraph.
But I'm a nice bloke, so I'll let it all go and hope I have given you some food for thought resulting from that rather childishly arrogant argument.
 
All I'm interested in is showing that all you have is an opinion and that opinion when taken in context, is not totally accepted, which you seem unable to accept.
??? What's this for a nonsense? As if I would think that my ether theories are accepted by the mainstream, LOL.

My ether theories are usual scientific theories, there are many different such theories. Theories are only hypotheses, all theories, even the ones which are accepted by the mainstream for some time. Those accepted are only a few of them. Of course, theories are such things with some mathematical formulas, also known as equations, and a little bit more than just opinions.

Your ideas about what is a scientific theory remains misguided, as well as your use of "certain", but once you seem uneducable I will not repeat myself too much.
As have previously said, I do realise that HR is not fully verified/validated as yet, all I'm waiting is for you to admit that your own hypotheticals are not as certain as you like to claim.
If I would discuss something with people who have scientific arguments, then it would be reasonable to expect that I would recognize some weaknesses and modify my position. But why you expect that a discussion with you, which consists mainly of my correcting quite trivial errors on your side, would allow me to identify weak places in my theories and arguments is beyond me. I can learn something about how some arguments can be understood by laymen, which is also interesting. I often tend to think that some arguments are easy and clear enough to be understood even by laymen, and tend to overestimate their abilities as well as the clarity of my arguments.

Unfortunately, your misinterpretations of what I say are too big to allow me to identify inadequacies in my popular arguments as well. Just for fun, I have looked how often I have used "certain" on this page. Once, in "This is certainly something we cannot exclude in principle" . And then I see an accusation about my hypotheses being "not as certain as you like to claim". Its you who likes to use the word "certainty".
 
I mean so much could be read into what you have just said and so many accusations could be made against your character resulting from that one paragraph.
You are known to be a specialist for "reading into" the texts of other people a lot of nonsense, and to start personal attacks based on nothing. So why should I care?
 
??? What's this for a nonsense? As if I would think that my ether theories are accepted by the mainstream, LOL.
I'm speaking of the Planckian problem.
My ether theories are usual scientific theories, there are many different such theories. Theories are only hypotheses, all theories, even the ones which are accepted by the mainstream for some time. Those accepted are only a few of them. Of course, theories are such things with some mathematical formulas, also known as equations, and a little bit more than just opinions.

Your ideas about what is a scientific theory remains misguided, as well as your use of "certain", but once you seem uneducable I will not repeat myself too much.
No again, my opinion on scientific theories and how some are near certain is accepted mainstream science.
If you would like to argue against, let's say Evolution, then go ahead. Or perhaps you doubt SR/GR?

On the rest of your rant, I will not repeat myself again, except to say that generally speaking the mainstream accept "theories" because they are the best descriptions we have and the most applicably logical....That's why they are mainstream.
Some "theories", actually hypothesis [like ether models] will remain "also rans" and languish in oblivion.
 
You are known to be a specialist for "reading into" the texts of other people a lot of nonsense, and to start personal attacks based on nothing. So why should I care?
I only return personal attacks [when appropriate]
I suggest as Jesus according to the bible once said. "Before you try and remove the splinter from your Brother's eye, remove the log from your own eye"
or words to that effect.
 
I'm speaking of the Planckian problem.
And, so what? What I claim is: It is well-known as being a problem, but widely ignored. Have you shown something different?
No again, my opinion on scientific theories and how some are near certain is accepted mainstream science.
If you would like to argue against, let's say Evolution, then go ahead. Or perhaps you doubt SR/GR?
As if the status of these theories has something to do your doubious claims about "certainty". Of course, this is already a progress compared with naming them true. But it is nonetheless not accurate. Popper has proposed to use "corroborated" for this. And, of course, that SR is wrong we already know (given that we have with GR a theory which covers also gravity), and that GR is wrong we are almost certain (given the singuralities and incompatibility with gravity). They will, of course, like NT, survive as approximations.
 
... And, of course, that SR is wrong we already know (given that we have with GR a theory which covers also gravity), and that GR is wrong we are almost certain (given the singuralities and incompatibility with gravity).

You say this as if your are presenting some profound insight, while in truth you are presenting assumptions that rely on accepting your conceptual interpretations, of both SR and GR.

Neither, SR or GR are wrong, even while they and every theory and/or model we have can only be an approximation of the aspects of reality they attempt to describe. Both, are in fact accurate within the context of obvious limitations. You are confusing conceptual interpretation and speculative application, with the fundamental descriptive accuracy. SR has been very successful in describing observation and experience where gravitation can be ignored and GR has been very successful in describing gravitation in the weak local field limit, of our solar system.

You said above, ".., and that GR is wrong we are almost certain (given the singuralities and incompatibility with gravity). ", which demonstrates a conceptual bias, that is inconsistent with the facts. Really almost certain and incompatible...?

GR is a field description of gravitation, based on the gravitational mechanics of our solar system. That (and the deflection of light passing the sun) is what defines the testable scope of the accuracy of GR.., and it has held up very well. Singularities are an anomaly arising from extending GR's locally accurate description of the gravitational field, to extremes beyond its original intent... And what the predicted singulaties have to do with the validity and accuracy of GR is entirely dependent on projecting a conceptual interpretation, beyond the original intent of the field description of gravitational mechanics.

We know there are things out there that seem outwardly consistent with singularities... But as has been documented, with quotes in earlier threads, not many of the professors polled believe that singularities, as literally described by the math, exist in reality. There is something there but how can anyone say they are inconsistent with GR, when they are not believed to be real and their prediction originates from extending a locally successful model, to extremes beyond testable limits?

In simpler words, how can you use imagination to trivialize an other wise extremely successful theoretical model?

They will, of course, like NT, survive as approximations.

This last is almost a laughable statement, when in the context of the discussion, and as I said above.., none of our speculations, theories and models, rise about the level of approximations... It is as if you are confusing the successful scope of description, with your own conceptual interpretation. Your confusion and bias reminds me of something posted by rpenner,

Physics isn't about the nature of reality -- Physics is about the behavior of phenomena in reality. Because that's all we can do is poke reality and see how it jumps -- that type of inquiry will never tell you what reality is, only how it behaves. We have very good mathematical models of how it will behave in all sorts of circumstances, but the map is not the territory.

Pay attention to that last sentence in the rpenner quote above. It is as if you picked up a map of the city and declare it inaccurate, because it does not tell you anything about the bottom of the ocean.

Newtonian dynamics, SR and GR are all successful descriptive approximations, whose flaws lie in how individuals interpret and attempt to project the approximation to conditions beyond their testable scope.
 
And, so what?
And so as usual it is just your own generally unsupported opinion.
Nothing more, nothing less.
What I claim is: It is well-known as being a problem, but widely ignored. Have you shown something different?
No, it is not a problem per se.....it may be a problem and it may not be a problem. At this stage of proceedings, most see it as a non existent problem.

As if the status of these theories has something to do your doubious claims about "certainty". Of course, this is already a progress compared with naming them true. But it is nonetheless not accurate. Popper has proposed to use "corroborated" for this. And, of course, that SR is wrong we already know (given that we have with GR a theory which covers also gravity), and that GR is wrong we are almost certain (given the singuralities and incompatibility with gravity). They will, of course, like NT, survive as approximations.

The rantings and ravings of a maverick outsider, who of course has his own agenda pushing such crap.
Let me state it again in no uncertain terms...SR/GR are both very near certain within their well known zones of applicability.
Your own thoughts/theories on the matter continue to gather dust.
 
The rantings and ravings of a maverick outsider, who of course has his own agenda pushing such crap.
Just checking on a few things and I came across this.....
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/welcome-to-ilja-schmelzer.14258/
My ether theory of gravity predicts a globally flat universe. Some qualitative differences to GR (testable in principle but not in reality): The "frozen stars" which replace black holes do not Hawking radiate. Incoming neutrinos will come out later. There are two free parameters to fit "dark energy". My approach to an ether interpretation of the standard model predicts the number and basic structural properties of the SM fermions.
at......
Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/welcome-to-ilja-schmelzer.14258/
in Feb 2004:

This supports my "agenda" claim, and the fact that this Schmelzer hypothesis has been preached for quite a while now.
 
Paddoboy, nobody cares about your agenda claims, because this is simply a cheap ad hominem argument.

You say this as if your are presenting some profound insight, while in truth you are presenting assumptions that rely on accepting your conceptual interpretations, of both SR and GR.
Neither, SR or GR are wrong, even while they and every theory and/or model we have can only be an approximation of the aspects of reality they attempt to describe.
Approximations are simply wrong, simply because they are only approximations. If they would be true, they would have to be exact, not approximations. An approximation may be accurate, useful, much better than other approximations, the best what is available today, but all this does not make them true. If we have no true theory, pity, but such is life. No reason to name the approximations we have true theories.
Both, are in fact accurate within the context of obvious limitations.
The limitations have not been obvious, they are the result of scientific research which has shown that they are wrong outside these limitations.

For example, in 1905 it was not known that SR is unable to handle gravity. Poincare has proposed in 1905 a special-relativistic theory of gravity. This theory of gravity appeared to be wrong. Einstein has found a better theory of gravity, which makes predictions which contradict SR, namely that light rays will be curved by gravity.

That Einstein's theory has singularities, solutions with closed causal loops, and is incompatible with quantum theory was also not known 1915, but has been found only later. So, no, these things are not obvious, they are well-known results of scientific evaluation of these theories.

You are confusing conceptual interpretation and speculative application, with the fundamental descriptive accuracy. SR has been very successful in describing observation and experience where gravitation can be ignored and GR has been very successful in describing gravitation in the weak local field limit, of our solar system.
And flat earth theory remains very successful in describing observations inside my living room, but even on the nearby soccer field. So, there is no confusion, I do not deny that SR and GR, as well as NT and flat Earth theory, have their domain of applicability as approximations. But this does not make them true theories. A theory which is true does not have limitations.

You said above, ".., and that GR is wrong we are almost certain (given the singuralities and incompatibility with gravity). ",
Ups, this should have been "incompatibility with quantum theory".
Singularities are an anomaly arising from extending GR's locally accurate description of the gravitational field, to extremes beyond its original intent... And what the predicted singulaties have to do with the validity and accuracy of GR is entirely dependent on projecting a conceptual interpretation, beyond the original intent of the field description of gravitational mechanics.
No. There was no such original intent for GR to be somehow limited.

This is an important difference between GR and my ether theory of gravity. In this ether theory, it is clear from the start that the equations are only a large distance limit, and will become invalid for an atomic theory of the ether.
We know there are things out there that seem outwardly consistent with singularities... But as has been documented, with quotes in earlier threads, not many of the professors polled believe that singularities, as literally described by the math, exist in reality. There is something there but how can anyone say they are inconsistent with GR, when they are not believed to be real and their prediction originates from extending a locally successful model, to extremes beyond testable limits?
You obviously mingle truth and empirical testability. If we cannot prove, with empirical tests, that GR is false, this does not tell us that GR is true.
This last is almost a laughable statement, when in the context of the discussion, and as I said above.., none of our speculations, theories and models, rise about the level of approximations...
I agree, the theories we have today are only approximations. They are not final true theories. And even if they are very accurate approximations, so accurate that we will be unable, for many years, to observe violations of these approximations, this does not make them true.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of physicists who think differently, in particular among string theorists there are a lot of people who think that string theory is some final, fundamentally true theory. Other people think that at least some parts of GR, namely the equivalence principle, are true fundamental insights, and not only approximations.
It is as if you picked up a map of the city and declare it inaccurate, because it does not tell you anything about the bottom of the ocean.
And, so what? Does this hypothetical map of the city tell us anything about the bottom of the ocean? Not? The map of the city is a useful approximation, fine, but not more.

The point of this picture is, of course, that nobody has claimed that this map is the city itself, and even less the whole Earth. So that the point made - that it does not describe the bottom of the ocean - becomes a triviality. But, so what, the triviality remains true.

And, quite different from this example, there are parts of modern scientific theories where it is not clear at all if they have limitations. What about, say, the fundamental principles of quantum mechanics? What about energy conservation? What about causality? Do they have limitations or not? Are they only approximations or are they fundamental truths? This is not clear or obvious. One can argue that they have limitations, and consider theories where these concepts are violated, but up to now we have no clear evidence that they are really violated, really have limitations.
 
Paddoboy, nobody cares about your agenda claims, because this is simply a cheap ad hominem argument.
No it's the truth. The way you dismiss others so easily is evidence for that.
And most rebuttals of your stuff, you have inevitably called "ad hominems"
Of course you do not participate in such attacks, yours are just you being brutally honest. :rolleyes: pull the other one, it whistles.
Approximations are simply wrong, simply because they are only approximations. If they would be true, they would have to be exact, not approximations. An approximation may be accurate, useful, much better than other approximations, the best what is available today, but all this does not make them true. If we have no true theory, pity, but such is life. No reason to name the approximations we have true theories.
Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it so.
You need to keep that frame of mind though, simply to always leave the door open for your own hypothesis that is gathering dust.
They are true and applicable to their zones of applicability, and gain in certainty over time.
And of course then the question arises, what in this world is as perfect as your pedantically are trying to cling to.
A theory which is true does not have limitations.

[1]Your reasons for holding onto that are as I stated, to maintain forlorn hope for your own.
[2] Mainstream certainly views it in more positive terms.
[3] It is totally beyond comprehension to imagine what you demand.
Even a future QGT will have some limitations.
 
No it's the truth. The way you dismiss others so easily is evidence for that.
And most rebuttals of your stuff, you have inevitably called "ad hominems"
An argument is ad hominem if it is directed not against the content, but against the person who proposes this content. The claim that somebody has some agenda is the typical example. Because an argument proposed by somebody may be correct even if he has an agenda for making this argument. That you name my "ad hominem" reaction inevitable is simply your personal problem, because you have no arguments about the content, and claims about others having an agenda are something you love very much.

I do not use claims that other have some agenda at all. I may sometimes identify something as caused by ideological prejudices. But this is only some add-on to arguments about the content.
And of course then the question arises, what in this world is as perfect as your pedantically are trying to cling to.
No. This question does not arise. Because I see no reason to lie. Imperfect thing should be named imperfect, and if we have no perfect things, ok, not nice, but not a reason to name imperfect things perfect.
Even a future QGT will have some limitations.
So what? No reason to hide these limitations.

By the way, I have named some physical theories where it is not clear at all if they have limitations: Energy conservation, principles of quantum theory, principles of causality. Even these principles remain hypothetical, and there may be theories which violate them. In particular, I think that the principles of quantum theory have limitations. But it is not clear if they have such limitations or not.
 
I do not use claims that other have some agenda at all. I may sometimes identify something as caused by ideological prejudices. But this is only some add-on to arguments about the content.
If you prefer your agenda to be called "ideological prejudices" then be my guest.
No. This question does not arise. Because I see no reason to lie. Imperfect thing should be named imperfect, and if we have no perfect things, ok, not nice, but not a reason to name imperfect things perfect.
Í didn't say you were lying....delusioned by that agenda maybe
So what? No reason to hide these limitations.
No, just that what you insist on is outright stupid and illogical> Is that an ad hom? :rolleyes:
By the way, I have named some physical theories where it is not clear at all if they have limitations: Energy conservation, principles of quantum theory, principles of causality. Even these principles remain hypothetical, and there may be theories which violate them. In particular, I think that the principles of quantum theory have limitations. But it is not clear if they have such limitations or not.
This thread is not about what you chose to hypothesise, it's about the logical reasonably accepted theory of HR by mainstream cosmology...which you naturally can not accept as it violates your ether hypothesis. [:rolleyes:there's that agenda again]
 
This thread is not about what you chose to hypothesise, it's about the logical reasonably accepted theory of HR by mainstream cosmology...which you naturally can not accept as it violates your ether hypothesis. [:rolleyes:there's that agenda again]
Unfortunately, the question if there is Hawking radiation or not has nothing to do with my ether theories.

Ah, I remember, you have made this claim because I have written that in my ether theory there is no Hawking radiation. In fact, the relation is a little bit more complicate.

1.) There is the variant of my theory where the parameter \(Upsilon\) is positive. This is the more interesting variant of the theory because it is more different from GR, the variant which predicts inflation and stable frozen stars. This makes this theory easier to test. So, in this theory there will be no Hawking radiation, because this is what standard mainstream theory tells us about stable stars in general.

2.) There is the other variant of my ether theory where the parameter \(Upsilon\) is negative. This variant is much closer to GR, all the difference is essentially some massless dark matter. The interesting differences (inflation, stable frozen stars) disappear. In this case, the prediction about Hawking radiation would be the same as that of GR. Thus, if the prediction of Hawking radiation would be correct for GR, it would hold also in my ether theory.

So, my theory, in itself, is neutral about this.
 
If you look at a solid spherical mass object, the gravitational force within the center of gravity, is zero, due to vector addition; based on math. Although the gravitational force is mathematically zero in the center of gravity, the center of gravity will have the highest mechanical pressure; pressure equals force/area. For example, the core of the earth and stars define the highest pressure.

Mathematically,in the center of gravity, the gravitational force becomes converted to mechanical pressure; force/area, thereby creating a universal force interface to the other forces of nature, that does not require gravitons or gravity waves. In other words, the phases of matter that we find inside the earth, due to gravitational pressure, can be defined in the lab with pressure generated in other ways, such as by mechanical, collisions and explosions, none of which has to involve gravity.

As we move out from the center of gravity, the gravitational force vectors no longer cancel and the universal mechanical pressure will drop, as the gravitational force increases from zero. Now gravitons and gravity waves may or may not play a role in other dynamics.

With a black hole, since this is defined as a singularity, there is only a center of gravity for mass equivalent. Therefore there is no gravity force vector, only pure mechanical pressure that interface EM and nuke forces. The event horizon, beyond the singularity, has input materials and energy, and will see a combination of gravity force and mechanical pressure.

General Relativity is not related to mechanical pressure. In other words, I cannot use a mechanical pressure equivalent to the earth's core; anvil press, to generate the space-time conditions in the bottom of the earth's space-time well, even though I can use this same mechanical pressure to interface the EM force and generate material phases, like metallic iron at 7000C that exist within the core. GR is not connected to the material and phase properties of EM matter induce by mechanical pressure. If we travel near C space-time contraction does not generate mechanical pressure and cause materials to change phase.

The net conclusion is gravity is GR plus universal pressure.
 
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