Is faith a reliable path to knowledge?

[DaveC426913]

The experience has nothing to do with the mind ur physical body.

The mind and the physical body are all there is. In fact, even that's redundant, since the mind is a subset of the physical body.

If you have (objective, verifiable) evidence - as opposed to baseless assertions - to the contrary, we'd love to see it.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

False. What you see, hear, taste, smell and touch, do not occur in your eyes ears, mouth, nose or skin.
They occur in your mind.


Your OBE experience is subjective. There is no one to verify that it was not a hallucination. And, by definition, neither can you.

They actually occur in your brain and nervous system not the mind. But I can discriminate. I know the difference between an OBE and a hallucination. I have had both

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

The mind and the physical body are all there is. In fact, even that's redundant, since the mind is a subset of the physical body.

If you have (objective, verifiable) evidence - as opposed to baseless assertions - to the contrary, we'd love to see it.

Not in fact, in your opinion. Can't verify to you here something that occurs elsewhere.

 

[Pinball1970]

Not in fact, in your opinion. Can't verify to you here something that occurs elsewhere.

I walked through the woods last week to get some images of birds flowers etc. My friend sat on a bench stared at the opposite bench then got his camera out and said, "on the bench."
I couldn't see anything till he said, "Rat."
There was a huge brown rat, Rattus norvegicus opposite just staring at me.
Now, I did not see anything till he said Rat, it was perfectly camouflaged, his word tuned my brain.

Later on we turned a corner and there is a steep drop and path is dark. There was an old guy resting on a bin about twenty metres away.
It was a tree not a man. My brain saw the shape and lined it up with a best case scenario. Better to confuse a tree for a man than the other way, it is how we evolved.

So, my real experience failed to see a foot long rat right Infront of me and gave me a man in a rain coat and hat that was not there.
No alcohol, no drugs, no mental illness (I'm aware of) no lack of sleep. Just my brain being fooled. My experience was real, the reality was different.

 

[James R]

About faith.
Godel proved that in any complete system there are true propositions that can't be proved true.

In a formal system.

This doesn't give us a method for discovering what those true propositions are, however.

 

[James R]

Moderator note: Wizard of Whatever has been warned for insulting another member.

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While I'm at it, can I please ask members to post on the thread topic? If you want to discuss something different about religion, or something else, please use a different thread.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

In a formal system.

This doesn't give us a method for discovering what those true propositions are, however.

The only method is observation and experience. From that you get data and patterns. The Truth you want is to discern what reality these patterns point to.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Moderator note: Wizard of Whatever has been warned for insulting another member.

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While I'm at it, can I please ask members to post on the thread topic? If you want to discuss something different about religion, or something else, please use a different thread.

If I insulted some one is was a reaction to an insult real or implied. But since straight forward reactions are too crude I will refrain.

 

[(Q)]

The experience has nothing to do with the mind or physical body.

If not the mind or the body, then what?

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

If not the mind or the body, then what?

The TRUE SELF.

 

[(Q)]

The TRUE SELF.

What is that exactly? The "self" would imply the body, so how do you discriminate the two?

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

What is that exactly? The "self" would imply the body, so how do you discriminate the two?

That which is real, but neither body nor mind.

 

[(Q)]

That which is real, but neither body nor mind.

That which is real is what exactly? Define it.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

That which is real is what exactly? Define it.

That which can exist beyond and without the body/mind matrix/

 

[(Q)]

That which can exist beyond and without the body/mind matrix/

"That which" is not a definition, it is an ultra-vague term that could mean anything. Define your terms or admit you have nothing.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

"That which" is not a definition, it is an ultra-vague term that could mean anything. Define your terms or admit you have nothing.

You're too dense to comprehend anything. From now on do a little do it yourself.

 

[(Q)]

You're too dense to comprehend anything. From now on do a little do it yourself.

So, we can therefore conclude that you have nothing to offer as a definition. It's all just inside your head.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

As a simple answer to the topic question, a small % of faith, the overwhelming % doubt.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

So, we can therefore conclude that you have nothing to offer as a definition. It's all just inside your head.

I gave you a definition, if you don't understand it, it's not my fault.

Not in mt head. From my experience.

 

[foghorn]

I gave you a definition, if you don't understand it, it's not my fault.

Not in mt head. From my experience.

Can you describe your experience, was there visual and sound?
If so, could you see yourself away from your body and where were you?

Member here: Davewhite04 has said of his OBEs:

This can only be answered subjectively, so I'll give you my answer.
I've had three out of body experiences, this was my first back in 2001.
My experience:
I was down the South coast of England, driving at night. With no warning or reason I can think of, I was 200 ft above my car watching myself drive. I felt like I still had human shape, but I was weightless, my mind was crystal clear, very little emotion and it seemed I was all knowing.

Was your experience as ‘exciting’ as DaveW’s?