Intelligence is recent in the history of the Universe

[Willamina Tyndale]

Some people have a really strange idea. They can't imagine a beginning without intelligence.
It is well known and obvious that it took a very long time for intelligence to develop.
When I say intelligence, I am of course referring to the theory of evolution.
If we ever find another advanced civilization in the cosmos, we would want to know if they had thought of it.
Then we would know they were intelligent.

 

[spidergoat]

We can guess that non-intelligent life preceeded intelligent life, but who knows how long it really takes?

 

[birch]

to call the human species intelligent is just hubris.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And the Error of Small Samples stalked the land.

 

[birch]

We can guess that non-intelligent life preceeded intelligent life, but who knows how long it really takes?

honestly, what is non-intelligent life compared to intelligent life?

literally, there are unseen viruses who are more intelligent than a walking, talking moron of human beings which proliferate. they are just physically larger, not more intelligent. actually, there are people so stupid, it's evidence that just because a lifeform is larger in size does not equate to more intelligence.

i mean, honestly, there are people who are only motivated by the simplest instincts and urges and mindbogglingly unsophisticated without an even inkling of a conceptual thought beyond the base needs/wants. literally: eat, shit, procreate and add some fun or play into their life. how the hell does that make them more intelligent? puleeze, there exists bacteria that operate more complicated than that.

 

[Michael 345]

It is well known and obvious that it took a very long time for intelligence to develop.

Some would contend it has not arrived yet

Currently reading about the emergence of concessness. Heavy going. Don't think I will have it solved by Christmas

Especially since I get sidetracked with the expansion of the Universe and the biggie of UFOs

 

[spidergoat]

honestly, what is non-intelligent life compared to intelligent life?

literally, there are unseen viruses who are more intelligent than a walking, talking moron of human beings which proliferate. they are just physically larger, not more intelligent. actually, there are people so stupid, it's evidence that just because a lifeform is larger in size does not equate to more intelligence.

i mean, honestly, there are people who are only motivated by the simplest instincts and urges and mindbogglingly unsophisticated without an even inkling of a conceptual thought beyond the base needs/wants. literally: eat, shit, procreate and add some fun or play into their life. how the hell does that make them more intelligent? puleeze, there exists bacteria that operate more complicated than that.

The stupidest fish is infinitely more intelligent than the smartest bacteria.

 

[Baldeee]

Some days I think humans really do have the potential to be truly intelligent.
Other days I read posts in the Philosophy forum.

 

[DaveC426913]

literally, there are unseen viruses who are more intelligent than a walking, talking moron of human beings which proliferate.

I am not sure which word you are mangling more: the word literally, or the word intelligent.

Regardless, the above statement is not true. It's merely vitriol.

 

[DaveC426913]

This thread is not about religion. Reported, to have it moved.

 

[birch]

The stupidest fish is infinitely more intelligent than the smartest bacteria.

not even true. people confuse size and complex structure with intelligence, there is bacteria that can take you down.

there is a difference between the conscious brain versus the bacteria and cells within your body. a human being can be consciously stupid, yet survive because the system is doing the work for it's survival. it depends on what you define as intelligence.

a drooling dufus or even someone braindead lying in a hospital bed can catch a cold or become ill, it's their biosystem that is working to fight it off, not 'you' in the sense your brain is directing it in all-knowing wisdom like a genius strategist of warcraft/starcraft. do you get it? yes, a larger organism can be as stupid as the smallest or vice-versa.

 

[DaveC426913]

people confuse size and complex structure with intelligence,

That may be true, but it is irrelevant, since it is not what is happening here.

The stupidest fish can decide between friend and foe, and eat one and flee the other.

a drooling dufus or even someone braindead lying in a hospital bed can catch a cold or become ill, it's their biosystem that is working to fight it off

And no one is suggesting that, so why are you raising it?

yes, a larger organism can be as stupid as the smallest or vice-versa.

Intelligence is, among many other things, the ability to have and act upon options. More intelligence is equatable with more options.

No one suggested intelligent organisms can't choose stupid options, but the fact that they are capable of consciously choosing is a hallmark of intelligence.

 

[birch]

That may be true, but it is irrelevant, since it is not what is happening here.

The stupidest fish can decide between friend and foe, and eat one and flee the other.


And no one is suggesting that, so why are you raising it?


Intelligence is, among many other things, the ability to have and act upon options. More intelligence is equatable with more options.

No one suggested intelligent organisms can't choose stupid options, but the fact that they are capable of consciously choosing is a hallmark of intelligence.

this is all off. capable of consciously choosing what? how the heck does that make them more intelligent than a virus or bacteria, just because they have options? it doesn't matter if one has the ability to choose if they make the wrong choices or don't understand the reasons why they make their choices or because they have to choose between options, because there is more than one. and this dilemma and blindspot is prevalent among humans too. that has nothing to do with intelligence. there is a difference between an ability and intelligence. intelligence is how and why you utiilze that ability. people make stupid choices all the time, so that is no hallmark of intelligence, just because they can choose left versus right or vice-versa. actually, it may even be an indication of less intelligence, depending on the choice they make.

you don't think that cancer cells or the aids virus is intelligent? it knows how to mutate or develop defense mechanisms to survive. and then you are really going to ignore that there are human beings who are no more capable except basic bodily functions, scratching their butts, drinking a six-pack, making some grunts as more intelligent?? you believe a human being who chooses hard drugs by ignoring the warnings of addiction and ends up killing/destroying themselves is intelligent, even though they had the priviledge of a choice? give me a break.

that's just human hubris and bias.

 

[DaveC426913]

this is all off. capable of consciously choosing what? how the heck does that make them more intelligent than a virus or bacteria, just because they have options?

Their intelligence provides them with options. They can eat it, flee from it, hide from it, walk around it, smell it, lick it, wait it out, come back later, play with it, give it to their young to sharpen their hunting skills. They can pry it open to get what's inside, eat just the tasty parts, bury the whole thing for later, give some to a sibling.

And they are capable of changing their approach as the situation evolves, eg. if a hard bite deflates it, then it might be edible, or it might get boring, if it gets boring they could bury it. If they get more bored, they can dig it up again.

Whether or not any of these seem like good ideas, they are problem-solving - which is what intelligence is. Intelligence is about applying existing problem-solving knowledge to new, as-yet unknown situations.

Bacteria do not have options.

it doesn't matter if one has the ability to choose if they make the wrong choices or don't understand the reasons why they make their choices or because they have to choose between options, because there is more than one. and this dilemma and blindspot is prevalent among humans too. that has nothing to do with intelligence.

We're talking about biological intelligence here, not human wisdom.

you don't think that cancer cells or the aids virus is intelligent?

They are most assuredly not.

it knows how to mutate or develop defense mechanisms to survive.

No it doesn't and no it doesn't.

Evolution happens because the organisms die.

You might want to brush up on your biology.

and then you are really going to ignore that there are human beings who are no more capable except basic bodily functions, scratching their butts, drinking a six-pack, making some grunts as more intelligent??

Yes.

you believe a human being who chooses hard drugs by ignoring the warnings of addiction and ends up killing/destroying themselves is intelligent, even though they had the priviledge of a choice? give me a break.

A bacteria cannot choose anything at all.

that's just human hubris and bias.

What you are talking about is not intelligence.

 

[birch]

A bacteria cannot choose anything at all.

you conflate choice with intelligence and miss the irony that choice is only a test of intelligence, not intelligence itself. you also conflate a lack of intelligence with a lack of options. these choices are actually superficial aspect of the game. bacteria and viruses are making choices by mutating for survival as well as other strategies that either benefit or are symbiotic with their environment or destructive to it.

you are confusing the physically larger minutiae/operations of human life as superior in 'intrinsic' intelligence and it's just not even technically true.

 

[DaveC426913]

you conflate choice with intelligence and miss the irony that choice is only a test of intelligence, not intelligence itself.

What makes you think I missed that? Let me quote myself:

Their intelligence provides them with options.

bacteria and viruses are making choices by mutating for survival

No, they most assuredly are not.

'intrinsic' intelligence

Is this 'intrinsic intelligence' what you use to fancifully muse that bacteria "are making choices by mutating"?
Do you know what mutation is?

 

[birch]

here is an example of human stupidity and hubris. though it could be argued that humans have more capability for sophisticated discernment in emotions/love . the idea that every human has that capability just because they are is incorrect nor does being human mean that one's capabiliity to love is somehow more sincere or deeper. it would depend on the person.

the question is typically raised like this, 'is the particular animal really loving or is it because their is a benefit to be had etc?' which is a stupid query on it's face even.

why? even most humans don't love or like without benefit to itself. well, of course not, because that would be stupid. even worse, most humans in relationships besides their bloodkin (not always but usually) don't want or care for you as much as what you can do for them or represent. this is why your looks, career, education, money, status etc all play a part in what they want. notice it's about what they want, take, use, benefit from in whatever way concretely or abstractly.

this is why people in couples have even been known to ask such questions such as 'would you still stay with me if i was burned and deformed? or in a wheelchair etc? do you really love me for me etc? possibly but most don't in the sense they probably would not have even considered you in those circumstances as an attractive mate, no matter how golden your heart or mind is or great your personality. duh?

 

[DaveC426913]

here is an example of human stupidity and hubris.

Great.

Entirely off-topic.

Look at the thread title.

 

[birch]

Great.

Entirely off-topic.

Look at the thread title.

no, there is still an implication that just being human implies that they are greater in every way and that is not true. even animals have abilities that we don't have. there exists humans who are not even more intelligent or loyal than animals. there are humans, most actually, who wouldn't be able to survive in the bare elements without civilization. literally, they are barely cavemen and only survive because of a few geniuses who have made strides that benefit the rest. this is why you have idiots who are kept alive by medical care, no matter what their poor choices are. so it effect, it has the appearance that every human being is superior.

if humans were so great and intelligent across the board, there wouldn't be people blind to society's own shortcomings but that's typical because every species is going to consider itself the best.

that video is a good example. notice the question posed with hubris, ' is their affection real or simply a way to manipulate their human for resources?'

that is what humans do also! notice people do not go around and think to themselves, 'let me find the most wretched person and give my all to them, with no regard to myself and benefit and sacrifice myself for them'. most people do not do that. they are looking to benefit from other humans in all types of relationships, whether personal or business.

the stupidity is the blindness to the fact one would tend to have affection for those who benefit or care for them. the idea that humans are somehow more sincere is ludicrous.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not a cat person, are you.