Yes.I understand some black people use something to lighten their skin so its not ‘black’, it’s a personal choice.
If by “ Orange felon “ you mean Trump, is that a personal attack on his choice of skin colour ?
Just asking.
Just saying.
Yes.I understand some black people use something to lighten their skin so its not ‘black’, it’s a personal choice.
If by “ Orange felon “ you mean Trump, is that a personal attack on his choice of skin colour ?
Just asking.
Ah, yes. Barely a case of sabre-rattling, though. Just dealing with the issue with the relevant people at the time, is it not?He is trying to squeeze it in before Trump takes office was my point and he will not be happy about that. Any Mauritius are holding out for a better deal last time I check, he may run out of time to finalize.
I believe it's a personal attack on whoever applies his makeup.If by “ Orange felon “ you mean Trump, is that a personal attack on his choice of skin colour ?
Based on the initial vetting session with Congress, Hegseth will get through, as no Republicans seemed to object to his dodgy past (he kept claiming allegations against him were "anonymous smears" but also tried to paint the picture of himself as a reformed character) or inexperience.Keep in mind that he's been having some trouble lately. He is perceived to be playing second fiddle to Musk and there is nothing he hates more. His AG pick turned out to be a pedophile and he is hoping no one talks about that much. And now he has very public problems with Hegseth.
Much of what he's doing is simply to distract people from the pedophilia thing or the second-fiddle thing. If they are talking about him and not Musk or Gaetz he is happy, and has succeeded.
I feel a little guilty for this one because I was too lazy to go back and read strings relating to this. So, my apologies. I have trouble with Tiassa's posts, reading them.
I tend to skim because I find them tedious on the whole
I think that assessing character is not something you're good at, and not something you consider important. There's probably nothing you can do about that, I suppose.I don't post here or reply to people based on character, but on what they write.
You really are quite clueless about what has gone down between myself and Tiassa, aren't you?You should try that sometime, because at the moment you seem to have this massive Tiassa-sized chip on your shoulder, and a Tiassa-shaped hole in your brain.
You're really all at sea, aren't you? The only response you can think of is to copy what I wrote to you. You lack the capacity for self-examination in certain areas.When you're involved it's never your fault. Funny, that.
Again with the parroting of something I wrote. Parrot because you don't understand what it means, but you think it must make for a good insult.And he appears to be renting space in your head free of charge, given that you can't even contemplate anyone else having anything to do with him, including, it seems, trying to summarise his post, without judging that person somehow guilty by association.
Cluelessly out of your depth.Aw, diddums needs a hug.
Actually, no, it isn't all about me. You haven't noticed, have you?It's all about you, isn't it. James R has been hurt by Tiassa.
You think Tiassa's a great, upstanding guy, I suppose?Everyone must therefore have a bad view of Tiassa! Anyone who doesn't is also bad!
Amateur psychology is not your strong suit, Sarkus. You're clueless when it comes to that stuff. Stick to what you're good at, because you just look silly when you try to psychoanalyse. It's an empty performance. I can tell that there's nothing going on under the surface.There's nothing to fool you with, James R. You're paranoid.
You should be more specific. Do I constantly assume bad faith from Tiassa, for instance? Yes, I do, because there's constant bad faith there.You constantly assume bad faith.
As expected, from you. After all, why would somebody's character be important? Eh?It is unimportant, James R.
I completely understand why it is not important to you, believe me.We've been through this before. Just because you think it is important, and even if you manage to convince others of that, doesn't make it important for everyone.
Is there ever bad faith, Sarkus? Does it matter if there is?Stop crying foul, stop seeing bad faith where there is none, and enough with playing the victim.
Clueless."Oh, I've been slighted by that evil Tiassa! Everyone must know! Everyone must feel so sorry for me! Boo hoo! Everyone must treat Tiassa as I want them to!"
I was joking, of course. I know you can't ever stop yourself. But we'll stop again, once I'm done with you for this round.At no point did I say that I was fucking off.
I don't think we are. After all, you're bursting to post a reply to this, now, aren't you?You tell me, James R? Are we done?
We could go round and round on this, Sarkus, never making progress, because you're stuck. So, what will happen is that we'll go for a couple more posts each, then I'll call it quits, because if I don't then I know that you can't stop yourself and this will be endless. Wait and see if I'm right.I'll stop when you stop harassing me, lying, making false inferences, and making unwarranted assumptions. If you can do that...?
I do.You have issues with him, James R.
Not at every opportunity, no. But you don't pay attention to such things. Why would you? They aren't important to you.That much you've made abundantly clear at every opportunity.
The difference is that his issues are essentially imaginary. He's so caught up in the web of lies he has created that he probably believes them himself, these days. My issues, on the other hand, go to behaviour as evidence of character. It's an important difference, but one that is clearly above your pay grade.As has he about you.
See?I honestly couldn't care less...
You're not in the least bit sorry.... and I'm sorry you're not the centre of my world that I have any sympathy for you.
That's true. You should stop at that, rather than adding lies about how you're sorry and such.I. Couldn't. Care. Less.
Naturally. How could you do otherwise?I will treat Tiassa's post as I find them, and ignore, as I do in most people's posts, stuff that I don't care about.
I highly doubt you will, but we'll see.Now, shall we please return to the thread topic?
Utterly clueless. You're not even sure what is happening here, are you?Or do you want to continue trying to dig yourself out of the hole you've put yourself in?
And yet you do. Go figure.You served up exactly the sort of response I predicted and expected from you. Repetitive, pedantic and morally blind. There's no point wasting further time on most of it.
You're making this all about character, James R, to the point that it no longer matters what people write. I don't have the same opinion of Tiassa as you. And now you try to disparage me for not having that same view. For what it's worth, James R, your assessment of character is woeful in most cases. With regard me it is laughable. But you're too entrenched and blinkered to realise, and have "main character" syndrome at this site.I think that assessing character is not something you're good at, and not something you consider important. There's probably nothing you can do about that, I suppose.
It would be worth keeping in mind that other people do not consider such things important. Why they think they are not will probably remain a mystery to you, but don't assume that it is important to them just because you value it.It would be worth keeping in mind that other people do consider such things important, however. Why they think it is important will probably remain a mystery to you, but don't just assume that it isn't important because you don't value it.
See, this is a prime example of you dishonesty shifting the issue here from you having a go at me, to the issue between you and Tiassa.You really are quite clueless about what has gone down between myself and Tiassa, aren't you?
For fuck's sake, James R. If you feel mischaracterisations hurt you, then, here's an idea: stop trying to characterise other people. You are woeful at it. You imagine you're not, but you are. If you think you're hurt by such mischaracterisations then try and have some empathy for those you mischaracterise. Oh, but wait, you think you're good at it, so you couldn't possibly hurt people, right?Probably, you're also oblivious to how hurtful your mischaracterisation would be if I wasn't aware of your limitations when it comes to this sort of thing.
I DIDN'T!You probably shouldn't insert yourself into the middle of things you clearly don't understand
For the last time, James R, I have done nothing wrong, nothing to warrant your harassment, your trolling. Where in the forum rules is it stated that one can not summarise another's post for others?Utterly clueless. You're not even sure what is happening here, are you?
Stop lashing out. Nothing I said was dishonest. Nor was it bullshit. You keep digging holes for yourself.Yet more of the same dishonest bullshit from you, James R.
No. I focused on the interesting stuff and ignored the repetitive drone. Didn't you notice?And yet you do.
Don't get me wrong. It matters to me what people write. To you? I'm thinking not so much. What was it you were saying about "main character syndrome"? Is that unconscious projection?You're making this all about character, James R, to the point that it no longer matters what people write.
I'm fascinated to learn what you think of Tiassa. You avoided the question last time I asked. Will you tell me this time?I don't have the same opinion of Tiassa as you.
No. I merely noted that you're a poor judge of character. I believe I even said that it's probably not your fault.And now you try to disparage me for not having that same view.
You haven't given any signs that you're in any sort of position to judge that kind of thing.For what it's worth, James R, your assessment of character is woeful in most cases.
You're reflecting my words again, because you don't understand what I was getting at or why it might be important. That's a blind spot you have there, Sarkus.It would be worth keeping in mind that other people do not consider such things important. Why they think they are not will probably remain a mystery to you, but don't assume that it is important to them just because you value it.
You don't see the relevance. I understand.See, this is a prime example of you dishonesty shifting the issue here from you having a go at me, to the issue between you and Tiassa.
Your "summary" made the faulty assumption that he was telling the truth, like I said. I corrected you on that.Your issue with Tiassa is irrelevant to you having a go at me for simply summarising his post.
I'm not playing the victim when it comes to Tiassa's stalking and such. I am the victim. It doesn't surprise me one bit that this has all flown over your head.Don't you get that, or are you too busy trying to play the victim.
You never cared about that. Why lie about it and pretend you did? Are you trying to give your readers the impression that you understand what my "spat" with Tiassa is about?I no longer care about your spat with Tiassa.
See above, and my previous posts.What does that have to do with me summarising his post and you criticising me for doing so??
Do you feel that mischaracterisations by other people might hurt me? Does that concern you at all? More generally, when people mischaracterise other people, is that a problem, or not really? Is it only a problem if you're the target?For fuck's sake, James R. If you feel mischaracterisations hurt you, then, here's an idea: stop trying to characterise other people.
You consistently demonstrate that you're in no position to judge such things. You put on a performance to give the impression that you imagine you are in such a position, but it's performative. I don't think you really believe it. Are you aware that this is what you're doing, or is there self-delusion in play, too?You are woeful at it. You imagine you're not, but you are.
Do you think I could be hurt by mischaracterisations? Would it be understandable if I felt hurt by somebody mischaracterising me? Would it be something you could excuse, or are emotions like that a bad thing?If you think you're hurt by such mischaracterisations then try and have some empathy for those you mischaracterise.
I'm well aware that I have the capacity to hurt people. Are you? Does it matter to you if you do?Oh, but wait, you think you're good at it, so you couldn't possibly hurt people, right?
Perhaps you should not have treated Tiassa's post the way you would treat anyone else's, in these particular circumstances. But that didn't occur to you, did it? That doesn't occur to you.FFS James R, you had a go at me for treating Tiassa's post the way I would treat anyone else's.
You're clueless. You actually can't understand what's going on, in this regard.It has been YOU that has inserted himself in the middle of that, to continue your issue with Tiassa in front of us all.
Sarkus, believe me, I understand exactly what your perspective is.I am the innocent party here, but you're simply too blinkered to see that.
Ah, the insult. The last refuge of the man who doesn't actually understand what he's trying to discuss.Seriously, you're pathetic.
Nothing I posted was irrelevant. But I get why you would want to ignore a lot of it.I'll ignore the irrelevant crap you can't help but post...
Clueless and tone deaf.... your pleas to victimhood, your "main character" syndrome...
Have you tried? How did that go for you?Try and comprehend that.
Was it not clear from my previous post that I already comprehended that?Try and also comprehend that I couldn't give a shit about your issue with Tiassa.
You should not presume to speak for "many here". It's not like you've polled them.Not many here do.
Is that a justified feeling, do you think? Or not? Or can you not decide?You feel you're the victim of his behaviour...
Actually, I'd prefer not to have to mention him. But I think that, ironically, I'm more concerned for his feelings on this than you are. It doesn't seem to bother you that you - or I - might say something that upsets him.... but that is no excuse for you interjecting yourself between me and others posters, to try and poison the well against him.
You can be sure that I will. I do what I say I will do. Have you noticed?If he's breaking the rules, moderate him.
Didn't I already tell you, several times? I think I did.So, tell me, what did I actually do wrong here, James R, what was in my post that you felt it important to interject and try to poison the well, and insult me, and harass me, and troll me, and derail this thread for?
You're hopelessly out of your depth. You should just stop. But you won't, will you?Tell me, or go fuck right off back to the hole you're continuing to dig for yourself, and from which you can only extricate yourself from by employing dishonest means.
Clueless. And disingenous as well. Ho hum.Where in the forum rules is it stated that one can not summarise another's post for others?
What was it that you commented on, regarding a post of Tiassa's? What was Tiassa referring to in his post, that you took upon yourself to explain for everybody's benefit?That is what this is about. Not your spat with Tiassa, although you have tried so dishonestly to make it about that.
Can't stop what I haven't started.So stop with the dishonesty.
I'm very happy to stop if you stop. I'll again leave it to you to decide whether you want to go another round of back-and-forth before I call a halt. You could stop now, hypothetically. Frankly, I don't think you have the level of self-control to do it.Stop with the harassment, the trolling.
Interesting...I try not to mischaracterize people.
No, you won't. I don't think you have that level of self-control.I think we'll go round one more time after this, Sarkus, then I'll stop.
It is nearly all dishonest from you, JamesR. Deliberately fallacious in that you have tried to move it from your trolling of me for simply summarising Tiassa's post, to now being about your issue with Tiassa.Stop lashing out. Nothing I said was dishonest. Nor was it bullshit.
Yet here you are having ignored in your initial troll what I actually wrote. Ironic. And here am I trying to get you to focus on what I wrote, and not on the baggage you brought with you.Don't get me wrong. It matters to me what people write. To you? I'm thinking not so much.
No, it's a seemingly adequate description of what you are portraying.What was it you were saying about "main character syndrome"? Is that unconscious projection?
Not here, because it is not relevant to what I wrote. If you're really that keen to know, send me a PM and I'll let you know, but I would also insist on copying him into that PM so that I'm not talking behind his back.I'm fascinated to learn what you think of Tiassa. You avoided the question last time I asked. Will you tell me this time?
It's all irrelevant JamesR. You are disparaging me yet even above you admit you don't know what my view is of Tiassa.No. I merely noted that you're a poor judge of character. I believe I even said that it's probably not your fault.
I just need to read your mischaracterisations.You haven't given any signs that you're in any sort of position to judge that kind of thing.
No, I'm reflecting your words to demonstrate how pathetic your comments are. Here, I'll do it again:You're reflecting my words again, because you don't understand what I was getting at or why it might be important. That's a blind spot you have there, Sarkus.
You don't see the relevance. I understand.
First you claim it was implied, and now you're claiming it was assumed. It was actually neither, no matter how much you wish it was. You read into it what you wanted to, because of the baggage you bring to anything Tiassa-related.Your "summary" made the faulty assumption that he was telling the truth, like I said. I corrected you on that.
"Playing the victim" includes playing up to the fact that you are the victim. You keep going on about it, at every opportunity. That is also "playing the victim". And in this instance you have turned my reaction to your trolling (#67) into an opportunity once again to play the victim.I'm not playing the victim when it comes to Tiassa's stalking and such. I am the victim. It doesn't surprise me one bit that this has all flown over your head.
I did care. For a moment. Now I no longer do. And I don't write posts for "readers" in the same way you do. I write it for the benefit of the one I'm replying to. In this case you.You never cared about that. Why lie about it and pretend you did? Are you trying to give your readers the impression that you understand what my "spat" with Tiassa is about?
There is no depth here. All that baggage is irrelevant. You keep appealing to it. Why can't you comprehend that it is irrelevant.When you're this far out of your depth, don't you think it might be better to keep your mouth shut?
You have clearly been hurt, yet you keep mischarterising others, with no apparent empathy for what your mischaracterisations might do. Oh, but if course, you don't mischaracterise, right? That's only what other people do about you?Do you feel that mischaracterisations by other people might hurt me? Does that concern you at all? More generally, when people mischaracterise other people, is that a problem, or not really? Is it only a problem if you're the target?
WTF??Perhaps you should not have treated Tiassa's post the way you would treat anyone else's, in these particular circumstances. But that didn't occur to you, did it? That doesn't occur to you.
I don't care! I do understand but I don't care! You're confusing the two. It does you no favours, but at least it keeps you able to talk about being the victim.You're clueless. You actually can't understand what's going on, in this regard.
So you accept that trolling me was inappropriate, and that everything else you've done has been irrelevant and just an excuse to further voice your spat with Tiassa?Sarkus, believe me, I understand exactly what your perspective is.
You're still talking about your spat with Tiassa. It is irrelevant here..Has it occurred to you that - just maybe - you might be a little blinkered when it comes to this kind of thing? I doubt that it has.
Hypocrisy much?Ah, the insult. The last refuge of the man who doesn't actually understand what he's trying to discuss.
Not irrelevant to you, but irrelevant to what I posted that you had issue with me for. Try to keep up.Nothing I posted was irrelevant. But I get why you would want to ignore a lot of it.
Actually, the question had been asked previously, if I recall, and most couldn't care beyond it spilling out into public.You should not presume to speak for "many here". It's not like you've polled them.
No, you told me of the (faulty) inference you made, then changed it and (unwarranted) assumption, but at no point have you based it on, well, reality of what I actually wrote. Can you do that, please?Didn't I already tell you, several times? I think I did.
I summarised his supposedly "impenetrable" post, how he had answered exchemists question already, albeit in a redacted manner iakin to the Pentagon etc. and the how he contextualised my original question from the OP.What was it that you commented on, regarding a post of Tiassa's? What was Tiassa referring to in his post, that you took upon yourself to explain for everybody's benefit?
I don't care! That wasn't the point of my post!! That's just you wanting to keep pushing it on the rest of us!If his post wasn't about our "spat", as you put it, what do you think it was about?
It's entirely dependent upon how one interprets these words (the bolded portion)--what constitutes a "threat", particularly--but in some respects this very thread illustrates the idea that certain things should not be talked about or addressed. At the same time, there's consideration of what constitutes "troll(ing" and the "pursuit of personal vendettas". As to the former, has anyone ever adequately defined "trolling"? I don't think so, and, honestly, I'm still unclear as to whether or not trolling is necessarily conscious and willful: does the trolling party have to be aware that they're trolling for it to actually be trolling? Is steering a matter off-topic trolling if the tangent can be established as in some way relevant or pertinent to the topic, however peripherally? But I think even the latter is somewhat problematic, and I would ask of it the same questions.So far as I can see, people have been warned of moderation if they troll, or abuse the forum for pursuit of personal vendettas.
I am unaware of anyone being threatened into silence for expressing an opinion on a thread topic. Can you cite an instance?
One of the policies I have as a mod in another forum is to have a fixed length for a given argument. Once the same things have been said for three exchanges I just stop replying. The other guy then generally gives up too. Sometimes they even decide that they have "won" which is fine with me.Just curious...do moderators not remove offtopic posts here, or shunt them into separate threads in some sort of grievance forum or argument room or whatever? Recent posts here seem like candidates for such. Never seen a science website where a personal dispute is allowed to go on at such mind boggling length and utterly displace the topic.
There is only one active moderator... and he's the one that instigated this debacle with his initial trolling. But, hey, it is what it now is.Just curious...do moderators not remove offtopic posts here, or shunt them into separate threads in some sort of grievance forum or argument room or whatever? Recent posts here seem like candidates for such. Never seen a science website where a personal dispute is allowed to go on at such mind boggling length and utterly displace the topic.
I would broker a cease fire if you guys voted for me to do it....One of the policies I have as a mod in another forum is to have a fixed length for a given argument. Once the same things have been said for three exchanges I just stop replying. The other guy then generally gives up too. Sometimes they even decide that they have "won" which is fine with me.
I see you're reduced again to parroting my words, because you're not quite sure what to do.No, you won't. I don't think you have that level of self-control.
I assumed you would bug out without venturing an opinion on the relevant moral question. Thanks for proving me right, again. Go on, tell me again that you don't care. It's all you can do, isn't it?Not here, because it is not relevant to what I wrote. If you're really that keen to know, send me a PM and I'll let you know, but I would also insist on copying him into that PM so that I'm not talking behind his back.
I asked you to tell me. You couldn't even construct something that you thought would come across convincingly enough to assure your readers that you have a view on the moral question, as it turned out. I didn't think you would be able to.It's all irrelevant JamesR. You are disparaging me yet even above you admit you don't know what my view is of Tiassa.
How ironic, coming from you.You're trolling. You're not focussing on what I had written but on your baggage.
How do you think that's going for you, Sarkus? Do you feel like you've got to the nub of the matter?No, I'm reflecting your words to demonstrate how pathetic your comments are.
See what I mean? All you've got is empty repetition, regardless of what I put to you. You don't engage because you can't engage with what I've been saying to you.Here, I'll do it again:
I'm reflecting your words again because you don't understand what I was getting at or why it might be important.
You don't understand that yours and my discussion hasn't been about my "spat" with Tiassa, as you put it, for quite a while now, do you? In fact, it was never about that. You're clueless. You keep posting when you should take stock, realise that you aren't following what I'm talking about, and quit while you can still hope to make a semi-graceful exit. Instead, we are subjected to you making a spectacle of yourself again.Because it's not. I summarised a post. You trolled. Everything you want to bring in about your spat with Tiassa is irrelevant. Get it yet?
Here's another direct question for you: do you believe that I am striving to implement a "secret agenda" in how I moderate this forum, as Tiassa has repeatedly claimed, or do you believe that my intentions and aims in moderating are in accordance with what I have publically posted about them on this forum? Or do you have no opinion either way?First you claim it was implied, and now you're claiming it was assumed. It was actually neither, no matter how much you wish it was.
Er, no. It doesn't include that."Playing the victim" includes playing up to the fact that you are the victim. You keep going on about it, at every opportunity.
Although this part of your act is repetitive, I will ask you again.It's boring. And as I have said before, I no longer care about your spat with Tiassa.
Which grievance would it be that I "insert into everything", Sarkus? Do tell.Stop trying to insert your grievance into everything.
Why did you care for a moment?I did care. For a moment. Now I no longer do.
Is this the first time you have realised that?And I don't write posts for "readers" in the same way you do.
Really? How interesting. *chuckle*I write it for the benefit of the one I'm replying to. In this case you.
Actually, you've got that backwards, Sarkus. The question you should consider is: why can't you comprehend that it is relevant?There is no depth here. All that baggage is irrelevant. You keep appealing to it. Why can't you comprehend that it is irrelevant.
How have I mischaracterised you, Sarkus?You have clearly been hurt, yet you keep mischarterising others, with no apparent empathy for what your mischaracterisations might do.
I try not to. Generally, I try to steel-man other people's arguments. I ask questions to clarify what they meant. I try to make sure I understand what their point of view is. I quote them. I give them every opportunity to correct anything I have misunderstood about their position and their points of view on things.Oh, but if course, you don't mischaracterise, right?
It's difficult to generalise about that. Certainly, I wouldn't use a word like "only". I'd say that most of the people I regularly interact with do not deliberately mischaracterise me. I tend to avoid people who deliberately mischaracterise me, because that's just rude.That's only what other people do about you?
You're tone deaf to how hurtful saying something like that could possibly be, Sarkus.But note that there's only one person on this site that keeps going on and on and on and on about how they've been mischaracterised, how they've been hurt, how the other person is evil and an odious little man. And here you've even created an opportunity from nothing. Bravo.
You mean you'll skip direct questions I put to you about emotions and how you interpret them.I'll skip a few ironic bits that aren't worth responding to.
Exactly. You're all at sea. You're not sure what we're talking about any more.WTF??
Does it matter what I think?If you have such an issue with Tiassa that you think other people should not treat his posts like they treat anyone else's, then either ban him or give up your moderating duties, 'cos frankly comments like this make you a disgrace.
Suppose you're right and I can't. In your opinion, does that disqualify me from participating in conversations here?Don't bring baggage to discussion. Yet you can't stop doing just that.
It's not clear to me what you mean by "treat"? What's the context?Are you saying, right here and now, that we should not treat Tiassa's posts like anyone else's?
Well, let's take one kind of example.If we shouldn't only in particular circumstances, what are those circumstances?
Do you think it's worth paying some attention to the veracity of the content before you republish said content and comment favourably on it? Or not? Tell me, Sarkus.Is summarising his posts for others, while passing no comment as to the veracity of its content, forbidden?
And... there's the inevitable insult. Because this is all you've got, once the performance is over.Please, let us know, because at the moment you're coming across as a petulant child.
I look forward to you demonstrating your understanding in your next angry post. (But you won't. Go on, prove me right again.)I don't care! I do understand but I don't care!
Don't be silly. Read what I wrote: "I understand exactly what your perspective is."So you accept that trolling me was inappropriate...
No. You just don't get it. This is all about you, now. It has been for several posts. We're digging down into your "baggage". Didn't you notice?You're still talking about your spat with Tiassa.
*whoosh*. That was the sound of my post flying over your head.Hypocrisy much?
I'm sure you've missed any commentary on the morality of the situation. After all, that's not important to you.Actually, the question had been asked previously, if I recall, and most couldn't care beyond it spilling out into public.
Did it occur to you that exchemist's characterisation of Tiassa's typically blog-like posting as "impenetrable" might have been more of a dismissal than a careful assessment of the content? No?I summarised his supposedly "impenetrable" post, how he had answered exchemists question already, albeit in a redacted manner iakin to the Pentagon etc. and the how he contextualised my original question from the OP.
Let's hope you take a little more time to think your posts through and that you make yourself clearer next time you pull this type of stunt, then. Because look at the mess you've made, again.Everything else has stemmed from you reading into that what simply is not there, no matter how much you want there to be.