Insulting one's allies - to what end?

S

Sarkus

Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe
Valued Senior Member
First there was Trump, in his first term, suggesting the purchase of Greenland. Okay, just nonsense, but, well, "it's Trump being Trump" (whatever that means).

Now, before he's even taken office, we have Trump saying that Greenland should be owned and controlled by the US, it being "essential" for security.
We have the Trump team talking about a "soft" invasion of Mexico - ostensibly to assassinate the heads of the drug cartels - but who knows to what actual end.
We have Trump and his team repeatedly discussing Canada as the "51st State", and to Trudeau as "Governor".
We have Musk encouraging the far-right AfD in Germany, supporting the jailed extremist Tommy Robinson in the UK (based on his ignorance of the facts of why he was jailed), supporting the right-wing Reform UK party and its leader Farage - before proverbially stabbing Farage in the back when he refused to also support Robinson.
I'm not sure what else Trump and/or his cronies have done to insult and worsen relations with Europe - beyond, of course, threatening the world with tarrifs - but there is bound to be something or other.

And now we have Musk polling whether the US should "liberate" the UK from their "tyrannical government".

Seriously - to what end does Trump and his "team" think it's a good idea to sour relationships with their closest allies in this way, while their actual enemies (Russia, China, N.Korea) watch on with glee? Hopefully those that are effectively being insulted will rise above, and relations will remain close despite Trump's team's efforts at political destabilisation and global economic turmoil. It's only four years, I guess/hope, so it will likely be a case of holding one's nose.

But, seriously, to what end? What are Trump/Musk/others trying to achieve by riling their closest allies? What is the political motivation, the "win" they think they'll achieve?
Or is it just to try to move focus away from the realisation that Trump will struggle to keep any/many of his campaign pledges, and give his ignorant cult followers something to rail about? And if so, how long can this go on before his allies tell him to just STFU?
 
David Lammy called him "a tyrant" and "a woman-hating, neo-Nazi-sympathising sociopath" in 2018.

People tend to remember insults.
 
So you think that's all it is? Musk suggesting the overthrow of the UK government is simply revenge for a now-UK-Minister's (he wasn't back then) stated opinion of Trump back in 2018? And Trump's threat to Canada, to Mexico, to Europe, is along the same lines?
 
Sarkus said:
So you think that's all it is? Musk suggesting the overthrow of the UK government is simply revenge for a now-UK-Minister's (he wasn't back then) stated opinion of Trump back in 2018? And Trump's threat to Canada, to Mexico, to Europe, is along the same lines?
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No. I knew there some bad blood was there though. I think Starmer has made gestures of bridge building.
Not sure what Musk is up to, going rogue on Farage publicly.
 
Sarkus said:
Seriously - to what end does Trump and his "team" think it's a good idea to sour relationships with their closest allies in this way, while their actual enemies (Russia, China, N.Korea) watch on with glee? Hopefully those that are effectively being insulted will rise above, and relations will remain close despite Trump's team's efforts at political destabilisation and global economic turmoil. It's only four years, I guess/hope, so it will likely be a case of holding one's nose.

But, seriously, to what end? What are Trump/Musk/others trying to achieve by riling their closest allies? What is the political motivation, the "win" they think they'll achieve?
Or is it just to try to move focus away from the realisation that Trump will struggle to keep any/many of his campaign pledges, and give his ignorant cult followers something to rail about? And if so, how long can this go on before his allies tell him to just STFU?
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I would suggest that politics, in the era of legacy news dying and social media soundbites ascendant, has become performative now in the way that crowds at US sports matches are pumped up by cheerleaders and gesticulating mascots. Trump is a team mascot, the majority knows there's a man in early stage dementia inside, but that's okay because his entourage is sympathetic to their hot button grievance issue, whatever it may be. The Trump that is a polezniye durak to Moscow has no problem souring relations with liberal democracies, and sells this idiocy to his followers as him being a tough hardball Isolationist biznessman who will drive hard bargains with all those louche Euro slackers and their decadent Libtard cultures that can't get things done. Trump cares nothing about allies, knows nothing about geopolitics or even where many nations are located, and wishes to hang out with authoritarians and billionaires (Putin, being both, is sort of the perfect friend) and trade tips on how to crush free journalism, cultural literacy, liberal education, women, immigrants and green energy.

We will do what we can, here in the US, but yes, any help appreciated from a UK and Europe we hope understands that Trump (and his Project 2025 cronies) in no way represents an actual majority of Americans who, in fact, much appreciate you as allies.
 
I'm not a Trump supporter as I don't have any interest in politics, but I have to admit, I really love the way this guy triggers people. He has to be the most entertaining president of all time.
 
Zero Point Native said:
I'm not a Trump supporter as I don't have any interest in politics, but I have to admit, I really love the way this guy triggers people. He has to be the most entertaining president of all time.
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What is it you love about Trump specifically? His constant lies? His name calling? His insane ideas? His selfishness? His cruelty? His stupidity? His ignorance? His mental disorders? His cowardice?

Yeah, those are all really entertaining qualities in a president.
 
Zero Point Native said:
I'm not a Trump supporter as I don't have any interest in politics, but I have to admit, I really love the way this guy triggers people. He has to be the most entertaining president of all time.
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It might help open up your political awareness and tolerance of other views if you can realize that smart people registering legitimate and factual critiques of Trump is not quite the same as being "triggered." Triggered implies trauma and emotional clouding, while critique can be calm and clear-eyed. It's possible to be entertained by a clown while also seeing them clearly.

BTW, you realize "I don't have any interest in politics" is a humorously ironic comment to make when posting in this thread, right?
 
As a result of his Maralago trip, Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau is being forced to resign.
 
(Q) said:
As a result of his Maralago trip, Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau is being forced to resign.
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Yeah, I heard about that. Hilarious. I'm sure Canada is having parades in the streets eh? I've heard the majority can't stand him over there.
 
(Q) said:
As a result of his Maralago trip, Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau is being forced to resign.
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From the BBC

In a public resignation letter, Freeland cited US President-elect Donald Trump's threats of tariffs on Canadian goods, and accused Trudeau of not doing enough to address the "grave challenge" posed by Trump's proposals.

Trump has promised to impose a tax of 25% on imported Canadian goods - which economists have warned would significantly hurt Canada's economy - unless the country takes steps to increase security on its shared border.
 
Pinball1970 said:
From the BBC

In a public resignation letter, Freeland cited US President-elect Donald Trump's threats of tariffs on Canadian goods, and accused Trudeau of not doing enough to address the "grave challenge" posed by Trump's proposals.

Trump has promised to impose a tax of 25% on imported Canadian goods - which economists have warned would significantly hurt Canada's economy - unless the country takes steps to increase security on its shared border.
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Hilarious, isn't it. Most world leaders are pushing back on Trumps threats, in many ways, humiliating him, yet Trudeau jumps on a plane and flies down to Maralago to kiss Trumps ass. He should resign.
 
Sarkus said:
[...] We have Musk encouraging the far-right AfD in Germany, supporting the jailed extremist Tommy Robinson in the UK (based on his ignorance of the facts of why he was jailed), supporting the right-wing Reform UK party and its leader Farage - before proverbially stabbing Farage in the back when he refused to also support Robinson. [...]
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Unlike conventional celebrities seeking to keep their careers alive or relevant, Musk doesn't need to generate notoriety and public attention for himself via comments. So in his case, it's an outright addiction to "social media mentality" which he has had for some years. Musk seems incapable of realizing that he can't enjoy being a "mundane troller" (like the average person) due to that conflicting with his status as an important and influential business magnate (and now DOGE). The world will always take this sophomoric or erratic and impulsive verbal behavior seriously, because of the latter. But nevertheless, it's unlikely that he will ever seek professional help to break the dependency.
_
 
(Q) said:
What is it you love about Trump specifically? His constant lies? His name calling? His insane ideas? His selfishness? His cruelty? His stupidity? His ignorance? His mental disorders? His cowardice?

Yeah, those are all really entertaining qualities in a president.
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Contrary to popular belief, even comedy writers don't regard Trump as any sort of "gift". He makes their work too easy, in many respects, and--as most of us have observed--the repetition, the cruelty, etc. becomes a whole lot less "entertaining" over time.
 
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parmalee said:
Contrary to popular belief, even comedy writers don't regard Trump as any sort of "gift". He makes their work too easy, in many respects, and--as most of us have observed--the repetition, the cruelty, etc. becomes a whole lot less "entertaining" over time.
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Jim Jeffries, till Trump got voted in then he kind of said "I was f***ing America are you f**ing crazy!?"
 
(Q) said:
Hilarious, isn't it. Most world leaders are pushing back on Trumps threats, in many ways, humiliating him, yet Trudeau jumps on a plane and flies down to Maralago to kiss Trumps ass. He should resign.
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Starmer needs a decent relationship with Trump. A good relationship is preferable, very good ideal.
Trade and security.
 
Sarkus said:
But, seriously, to what end? What are Trump/Musk/others trying to achieve by riling their closest allies? What is the political motivation, the "win" they think they'll achieve?
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They don't want allies, they want subordinates. They'll try to muscle out any foreign leaders who dare to stand up to them or expect to be treated as equals while supporting any who are willing to kow-tow to them.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Starmer needs a decent relationship with Trump. A good relationship is preferable, very good ideal.
Trade and security.
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It looks like Musk is the one going after Starmer, with lies, of course, but it appears his ratings are dropping as a result of the attacks.
 
Since lies are the new truth among Conservatives, should we be telling them the truth or should we be lying to them so they understand?
 
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