Inconsistencies...

Seattle

Valued Senior Member
Some inconsistencies.

People who "hate" Reagan but complain today about too much power among too few companies. Reagan started deregulation because Bell controlled the phone companies, lines, phones and break them up into Baby Bells and now we have cell phones, dozens of providers, etc.

People who dislike "greedy corporations" but work for a corporation and are glad to have a job. People who talk about the "worker" should be paid more because they do all the work. Investors are just rich people who do nothing and shouldn't be rewarded. Wages should go up instead. In other words they devalue the role of capital.

Without capital there would be no industrial revolution and we would just be scavenging all day for enough calories to survive.

A fisherman without capital can catch 1 fish by hand every 2 hours. With a small boat he can catch 10 a day. If someone defers their own self gratification for a year and pays him to build a large fishing trawler, he can use a net and catch a ton of fish each day thereby raising his own skill level, pay and making fish plentiful for everyone.

Who is the more valuable cog in this wheel, the "working man" or capital?

People who complain about "loopholes" and have a 401k, IRA, Roth IRA, mortgage interest deduction, personal exemption, kid tax credits, $250k capital gains exclusion etc.

People who complain that the "rich" don't pay their "fair" share of taxes when they pay most taxes.

People who complain about lower rates for long-term capital gains who do want jobs that are made available as a results of such tax treatment.

People who talk about "trickle down doesn't work...tax the rich more" when wealth is generally all invested in capital markets and I've already talked about how, without capital, we are all just scavengers.

Without capital, there is no "excess" anything to generate our whole economy and modern way of life. The end result of such "inconsistencies" is to put us in a race to the bottom where we are at a subsistence level...but equal.
 
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A fisherman without capital can catch 1 fish by hand every 2 hours. With a small boat he can catch 10 a day. If someone defers their own self gratification for a year and pays him to build a large fishing trawler, he can use a net and catch a ton of fish each day thereby raising his own skill level, pay and making fish plentiful for everyone.

Who is the more valuable cog in this wheel, the "working man" or capital?
Clearly, the working man, in this example. Without his labour, the capital dude gets nothing. With his labour, the capital dude maybe makes a profit and gets to eat some fish.
 
Clearly, the working man, in this example. Without his labour, the capital dude gets nothing. With his labour, the capital dude maybe makes a profit and gets to eat some fish.
"Clearly" huh?

I didn't say anything about a "capital dude". When valuing a project I sincerely doubt that you would place equal value on one fisherman vs a fishing trawler.
 
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Some inconsistencies.

People who "hate" Reagan but complain today about too much power among too few companies. Reagan started deregulation because Bell controlled the phone companies, lines, phones and break them up into Baby Bells and now we have cell phones, dozens of providers, etc.

People who dislike "greedy corporations" but work for a corporation and are glad to have a job. People who talk about the "worker" should be paid more because they do all the work. Investors are just rich people who do nothing and shouldn't be rewarded. Wages should go up instead. In other words they devalue the role of capital.

Without capital there would be no industrial revolution and we would just be scavenging all day for enough calories to survive.

A fisherman without capital can catch 1 fish by hand every 2 hours. With a small boat he can catch 10 a day. If someone defers their own self gratification for a year and pays him to build a large fishing trawler, he can use a net and catch a ton of fish each day thereby raising his own skill level, pay and making fish plentiful for everyone.

Who is the more valuable cog in this wheel, the "working man" or capital?

People who complain about "loopholes" and have a 401k, IRA, Roth IRA, mortgage interest deduction, personal exemption, kid tax credits, $250k capital gains exclusion etc.

People who complain that the "rich" don't pay their "fair" share of taxes when they pay most taxes.

People who complain about lower rates for long-term capital gains who do want jobs that are made available as a results of such tax treatment.

People who talk about "trickle down doesn't work...tax the rich more" when wealth is generally all invested in capital markets and I've already talked about how, without capital, we are all just scavengers.

Without capital, there is no "excess" anything to generate our whole economy and modern way of life. The end result of such "inconsistencies" is to put us in a race to the bottom where we are at a subsistence level...but equal.
I think most people are aware that one generally needs a loan to start a business.
 
I am inconsistent on this.

As a younger man ideologically I was a socialist, voted labour (UK)

Then I finished Uni and wanted a job that was well paid.

Then I encountered unions.

I then I encountered left wing politicians.

However…

I trusted democratic US politicians over republican.

I still hate right wing Christian republicans.


I still want to earn more money.

Now? I detest left wing politicians and some of the left and right politics in the UK.


I could vote Green?
 
I am inconsistent on this.

As a younger man ideologically I was a socialist, voted labour (UK)

Then I finished Uni and wanted a job that was well paid.

Then I encountered unions.

I then I encountered left wing politicians.

However…

I trusted democratic US politicians over republican.

I still hate right wing Christian republicans.


I still want to earn more money.

Now? I detest left wing politicians and some of the left and right politics in the UK.


I could vote Green?
You grew up and learned from schooling and life. Emotion is not enough...
 
I was thinking of wasting my vote as well. ;)
Yeah its a bit crap I admit it. Re Labour. I have some Major issues with some key figures in the party.

Corbyn is gone thank goodness but we still Rayner who is now VP, astonishing.

Dianne Abott who some is still in the party somehow, completely inept.

Dawn Butler, also a complete joke.

All had close links to Corbyn and Ken Livingstone..


Why focus on those guys? I mean Dianne Abbot? Low hanging fruit?

My objection is, if you do not want to electorate to despair of labour party MPs stop rolling them out on national TV making complete idiots of themselves.

Do other MPs car crash on TV? Sure, but I don’t want to vote for them I want some good Labour MPs, who will represent me.


At least they said they will use nuclear weapons now if they needed to.


Small steps.
 
Some inconsistencies.

People who "hate" Reagan but complain today about too much power among too few companies. Reagan started deregulation because Bell controlled the phone companies, lines, phones and break them up into Baby Bells and now we have cell phones, dozens of providers, etc.

People who dislike "greedy corporations" but work for a corporation and are glad to have a job. People who talk about the "worker" should be paid more because they do all the work. Investors are just rich people who do nothing and shouldn't be rewarded. Wages should go up instead. In other words they devalue the role of capital.

Without capital there would be no industrial revolution and we would just be scavenging all day for enough calories to survive.

A fisherman without capital can catch 1 fish by hand every 2 hours. With a small boat he can catch 10 a day. If someone defers their own self gratification for a year and pays him to build a large fishing trawler, he can use a net and catch a ton of fish each day thereby raising his own skill level, pay and making fish plentiful for everyone.

Who is the more valuable cog in this wheel, the "working man" or capital?

People who complain about "loopholes" and have a 401k, IRA, Roth IRA, mortgage interest deduction, personal exemption, kid tax credits, $250k capital gains exclusion etc.

People who complain that the "rich" don't pay their "fair" share of taxes when they pay most taxes.

People who complain about lower rates for long-term capital gains who do want jobs that are made available as a results of such tax treatment.

People who talk about "trickle down doesn't work...tax the rich more" when wealth is generally all invested in capital markets and I've already talked about how, without capital, we are all just scavengers.

Without capital, there is no "excess" anything to generate our whole economy and modern way of life. The end result of such "inconsistencies" is to put us in a race to the bottom where we are at a subsistence level...but equal.
Perhaps a better thread title might be "Incoherent Drivel."

Show me the people who "hate" Reagan because of said deregulation. Reagan did--and didn't do--a whole lot of other shit, and perhaps some of those things might be why people "hate" him?

Show me the people who say that workers need to be paid more because "they do all the work." Perhaps it's more to do with CEOs making, on average, 200 times what the typical worker makes--and often, more than 500 times what the lowest paid workers earn. You think, maybe?

And what the hell do "loopholes" have to do with 401ks, IRAs, kid tax credits, and so forth?

And you really think that there are people who don't know that loans/capital are often needed in order to start a business?

Jesus Christ.
 
Incidentally, Hitler unified the German people (some of them, at least) and he made some pretty decent cars (well, the workers did, but whatever), and yet, a lot of people "hate" him. How weird is that?
 
Perhaps a better thread title might be "Incoherent Drivel."

Show me the people who "hate" Reagan because of said deregulation. Reagan did--and didn't do--a whole lot of other shit, and perhaps some of those things might be why people "hate" him?

Show me the people who say that workers need to be paid more because "they do all the work." Perhaps it's more to do with CEOs making, on average, 200 times what the typical worker makes--and often, more than 500 times what the lowest paid workers earn. You think, maybe?

And what the hell do "loopholes" have to do with 401ks, IRAs, kid tax credits, and so forth?

And you really think that there are people who don't know that loans/capital are often needed in order to start a business?

Jesus Christ.
Your irate contribution to idiocracy is duly noted.

Deregulation was a common complaint initially, "Ma Bell worked just fine and the airlines flew on time"...

Union workers make the complaint all the time that "we do the real work around here".

The multiple of pay for a CEO vs the lowest paid worker is irrelevant. The market determines pay, for the CEO and for the workers. If you pay either of them less you have more profit for the company/shareholders.

Pay isn't determined by how much money you have left over. The janitor doesn't make more if the CEO makes less. Wages aren't determined by how much you need or want.

One person's tax exemption is another's "loophole". That should be pretty obvious.

Do I think that many "workers" have an elevated sense of what they are worth to a company? Yes. Do many think that shareholders shouldn't get "so much" because they are just "lazy, rich people who do nothing"? Yes.

Making a Hitler analogy rarely bolsters a valid argument.

What does Jesus Christ have to do with this discussion?

Anger or frustration isn't a good substitute for knowledge or logic.
 
Deregulation was a common complaint initially,Ma Bell worked just fine and the airlines flew on time"...

"Some inconsistencies." Hmmm. So... some people (who? can you provide any actual examples here?) some 40-odd years ago ("initially") apparently made this complaint. According to you.
Union workers make the complaint all the time that "we do the real work around here".
OK, show me. Provide at least one citation for this claim. Can you? Also, your claim was that they say they do "all the work"-- please try to be consistent. And coherent.
The multiple of pay for a CEO vs the lowest paid worker is irrelevant. The market determines pay, for the CEO and for the workers. If you pay either of them less you have more profit for the company/shareholders.
Irrelevant to what?. And what the hell does that even have to do with whatever it is that you think you were trying to say with your OP? This is your freakin' thread--can you at least make some effort to stay on topic?

I'm saying that people are saying they ought to be paid more because of this massive pay disparity, not because--according to you--they claim that they do all the work (again, provide some sort of citation if you truly believe that people have said this). Do you think you can attempt to address that?. You know, address what is written, not whatever irrelevancy is floating around in that brain of yours and which has precisely nothing to do with anything that I have said.
One person's tax exemption is another's "loophole". That should be pretty obvious.
Rrrriiiight.
Do I think that many "workers" have an elevated sense of what they are worth to a company? Yes. Do many think that shareholders shouldn't get "so much" because they are just "lazy, rich people who do nothing"? Yes.
Good for you. Your point?
Making a Hitler analogy rarely bolsters a valid argument.
I was simply offering another "inconsistency" comparably ridiculous to the ones you've provided.
Anger or frustration isn't a good substitute for knowledge or logic.
Who is angry? What the hell are you even talking about?
 
"Some inconsistencies." Hmmm. So... some people (who? can you provide any actual examples here?) some 40-odd years ago ("initially") apparently made this complaint. According to you.

OK, show me. Provide at least one citation for this claim. Can you? Also, your claim was that they say they do "all the work"-- please try to be consistent. And coherent.

Irrelevant to what?. And what the hell does that even have to do with whatever it is that you think you were trying to say with your OP? This is your freakin' thread--can you at least make some effort to stay on topic?

I'm saying that people are saying they ought to be paid more because of this massive pay disparity, not because--according to you--they claim that they do all the work (again, provide some sort of citation if you truly believe that people have said this). Do you think you can attempt to address that?. You know, address what is written, not whatever irrelevancy is floating around in that brain of yours and which has precisely nothing to do with anything that I have said.

Rrrriiiight.

Good for you. Your point?

I was simply offering another "inconsistency" comparably ridiculous to the ones you've provided.

Who is angry? What the hell are you even talking about?
You seem to be easily confused. I can't help you with that.

I can't be off topic in a thread that I started about inconsistencies.

I'm not going to track down sources for common anecdotal commentary.

I addressed, one by one, your comments and now you can't even follow that? You said that CEO's made too much compared to the average worker. I addressed it and now you are confused? Again, I can't help it that you are confused.

The "disparity" of CEO pay to worker pay is (let me repeat) irrelevant. There is no connection between CEO pay and worker pay and I've already explained how pay is determined.
 
Nothing wrong with posting unsupported opinion, as long as it's labeled as such.
Do you usually "support" general commentary from the public at large? Do you have support that what I has posted is not commonly heard statements?

How would you go about "supporting" comments that you've commonly heard over the yea
I'm guessing that you've heard those comments but you just disagree with my comments and actually have no issue with those comments that are being questioned so why jump on to that bandwagon?
 
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