"ILLEGAL ALIEN" Dies on Hospital After Being Ignored for 45 Minutes

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by TruthSeeker, Jun 14, 2007.

  1. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I don't know about you, but I ain't debating right n' wrong ...just reality in the world ...which you can't seem to accept ...even when it's pointed out to you ...even when it stares you in the face.

    Baron Max
     
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  3. sandy Banned Banned

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    Yes. It's called criminal aliens. They are bankrupting our hospitals. They steal services by not paying for them. When they can't get to free doctors, they go to the ER. Even with just a cough. Then they don't pay. They are destroying CA hospitals, schools, neighborhoods etc... Hell, they're destroying the whole state. You should see all the foreign flags everywhere. It makes me want to vomit.

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    That hospital in question is a hellhole. Many of our hospitals are becoming hellholes. Thanks to the criminal aliens.

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  5. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Yes it can be messy when one doesn't use a condom.
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    i still don't see how the legal status of this person is relavent to what happened to her for a doctor to deny treatment to someone for such a petty reason is heartbreaking to me and reflects poorly on our society
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    That's what you call the vicious circle. It never ends.

    And you can't even handle the death of the one, if one were to take your reaction to this thread into consideration. So should we all just say 'so what'?

    The debate about this woman is not her death. As you say, thousands die a day without a mention. This woman's abandonment by the doctors and nurses in the hospital just goes to show just how much we don't care. But the true topic of this debate is whether those doctors and nurses have a duty to care.

    Oh the reality is there and it is hard to ignore it. However should the doctors and nurses, working in an ER, ignore a woman who lays dying on the floor of the waiting room in her own blood? That's what this comes down to. Do they have a duty, as doctors and nurses working in a hospital, to care for patients in said hospital? Was it right or wrong for them to ignore this woman for the whole 45 minutes or so that it took her to die?
     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    is not ethics about right and wrong?
     
  10. This was a tragedy but here is the situation as I a Nurse see it. Remember I was not there and do not know the story. It was a busy day in the E.R. and an obviously drug seeking pt. came in for the third time this week. They make us nurses so pissed off we can't see straight because we have to see them even if we know that they are just seeking drugs. So I sat her down and got back to seeing real sick people. She was so messed up that she had a fit probably faking it. Then she had the nerve to call 911 while she was in the waiting area. She might not have even signed in correctly. All this does not excuse the fact that they did not assess the pt the other 2 times. The horrible part was that she was neglected and let down three times any one doing their job could have saved her but no one did. She died for the crime of being poor and probably a language barrier. We forget that each individual is different and precious when we deal with such a huge mass of them with too few people and not enough time. There is no excuse for what happened only a crappy reason.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    A bit hard to fake vomitting blood, don't you think?

    She was not the one who rang 911. Her boyfriend and other patients waiting in the area were the one's who rang 911. She was collapsed on the floor vomitting blood. They rang 911 because they saw she was being ignored and they recognised that she needed immediate help.

    She was collapsed on the floor after being wheeled to the front 'sign in' desk. I would imagine that if someone were on the floor, lying in their own blood and vomit, the process of properly signing in might have escaped them since they may have had other more important things on their minds at the time.

    Not assessing her properly on two previous occasions is one thing. Doing nothing as she lay in her own blood for 45 minutes is another thing.

    Indeed.

    On that score we agree.

    She had been able to communicate to the police officers who had originally brought her in that she was in pain. She thought her gall bladder had burst and had advised them of such. In short, she did not know what was wrong with her. But she was well able to tell them she was in pain. But I would also imagine that her bloody vomit should have transcended the language barrier and been a red flag to the medical personnel that something was indeed wrong with her.

    I don't think there is a reason or an excuse in this case. She was neglected by the very people who should have helped her, who were paid to help her.
     
  12. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    They were busy helping all of the other patients who were in danger of dying.

    Hey, Bells, how many people died yesterday within, say, 10 miles of your home? Did you do anything to help them? Why not? And why aren't you bemoaning their deaths as opposed to this woman who you've never met, who you've never seen, and who lives a gazillion miles from you?

    Baron Max
     
  13. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    there is a huge difference between an untrained person not helping and a trained medical person. to act as if there is not is unethical
     
  14. John99 Banned Banned

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    Yes M*W, CONDOMS....that will solve all the problems. You should start a thread about this in the religion forum, .
    But yeah condoms, should be raining from the sky.

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    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  15. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Help doesn't have to be medical, ya' know? Help can be driving people to the doctor's office or the hospital or to the pharmacy, etc. Help can be delivering food and supplies to people who are destitute and starving. Help can be volunteering in a hospital to help relieve reg. nurses of their non-medical chores.

    Can one really call themselves compassionate and caring of others if they don't do that kind of help for others? Can one really be called compassionate if there's needy people around close to them, and they not help? Can one be compassionate about someone 10,000 miles away, yet still allow poverty and hunger to exist in their own town or city? Is it enough just to say that you're compassionate? Can one claim to be compassionate for people, even as they spend their liesure time on the Internet forums touting compassionat behavior rather than helping those around them? Or is compassion actually and really helping people?

    Baron Max
     
  16. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    7,658
    I was referring to the prevailing medical standards and the attitudes of its medical staff. 'Criminal aliens' don't determine those.
     
  17. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    7,590

    differance being he didnt know they were dieing perhaps, and those dr's and nurses knew about that woman, i knwo i would do somthing if a women was spurting blood near me, there is no excuse for that woman to spend 45 minutes on a trolley to die, (EVEN if she was a illegal alien)

    we in Uk have a high lvl of imagrants and we deal with it, because we know we have to.
     
  18. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    I'm not making excuses for what happened to that woman. I'm merely pointing out how idiotic it is for us to be so upset and angry about the death of one drug-addicted woman, while at the same time, thousands of others have died or starved to death or were killed.

    To claim such compassion for that one woman makes a damned joke out of all the other thousands who die every-fuckin'-day. Thousands of people died horrible deaths at about the same time that that drug addict died ....but who gets the media attention???

    And we have the nerve to call ourselves compassionate???

    Baron Max
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    at last someone is calling out all the compassanate coservatives for their hipocricy thanks man
     
  20. I have not seen the video and am using my phone at work so i can't acess videos was it apparent that there was a large quantity of blood in the vomit? A lot of people think that vomiting will make the staff see them faster. All it does is make a mess. I am more curious about how they could have misdiagnosed her during the previous 2 visits. Unfortunately it is all to easy to ignore someone in a busy ER when you have already made up your mind that they are faking it. It does seem a bit extreme to ignore someone on the ground for 45 minutes.
     
  21. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: If an illegal alien comes to the hospital I work in, and he has a mere cough, well, he'll just have to wait his turn. I'll take care of the gunshot wound or car wreck first. But if an illegal alien comes in and is bleeding to death or cannot breathe, I'll take care of him first. I don't care what color he is. I don't care if he has papers. All I care about is saving his life. That's only human.

    If the stress of illegal aliens burdens local hospitals or welfare systems, that's a problem of the state. When my grandparents came over from the old country, it would have broken my heart if they needed emergency care and were passed over because they were Italian!

    Sandy, you are a cold-hearted bitch. I don't even think Christie Brinkley would be proud of you, much less using her image as your own. If California is such a bad place, then move outta there. If you don't like the illegal aliens in your state, then run for office. I hope you and your loved ones never need medical care in an overcrowded emergency room and they choose a Latino before you, you hard-hearted bitch.
     
  22. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    10,848
    i thought this was one of sandys celebration threads at first. like the "WE killed 22 people HOOORAY"


    "yeah thats 1 more immigrant down, just another few million to go"

    peace.
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Mod Hat - Pilloried

    Mod Hat - Pilloried

    EmptyForceofChi!

    Um ... Chi? Ah, maybe you would like to reconsider the "Funny, but not in the ha-ha way" notion of Sandy being TruthSeeker?

    Really ... absolutely creepy, mate.

    Please reconsider that last post? Really. Before I have to, oh, break my record of not issuing infraction points?

    * * *​

    Medicine*Woman!

    (Ahem)?

    Please see this post.

    * * *​

    General Notice!

    No more of this shite! Dig?

    If it isn't obvious to you that certain folks aren't up to taking what they dish, get the fucking hint. You know, one of the things I've always loved about you is that you never made me actually have to do my job around here. Every once in a while, sure. But we've always seemed to get by knowing that we really shouldn't be acting as we were. And on the days we were doing okay, we knew we were doing okay. But that ain't so anymore, folks. Sorry. I wish it still was, but for now, no.

    Look, I know. I see what's happening. And yes, it sucks. It really does. And we all know people like this exist. We've put up with them in the past. And we've let them be cunts and assholes all they want, because they could take it. But this time it's different. You're obviously dealing with deviant circumstances.

    If the point is missed--how many goddamn times by now--what makes you think she's going to wake up one day and figure it out? Anyone who's been 'round long enough might recall--though I don't blame you if it slipped by--an old expression of mine that one is either stupid or sinister, and it's all the same in the end, because the sinister are incapable of realizing their corruption, so it's still ignorance motivating willful stupidity. So take satisfaction in that notion. Just say to yourselves, "Well, she's either stupid, or she's ... well, stupid. One way or the other. Life goes on."

    Accept it. Okay? She either legitimately doesn't get it, or is one of those so warped that the only way she can interact with this community is by trying to thread the infinitesimal line between yin and yang, or in this case, Tweedledee and TweedleDarthVader.

    In the meantime, I can certainly say that your moderators are, indeed, watching the situation. What logic dictates is off the table while it is necessarily reconsidered. Patchwork convention is insufficient in a community where some are so determined to create what they despise.

    Don't you see? The nearest actual purpose such campaigns can have is to compel the administration and moderators to lay down an ironclad law so that dishonest (sinister? stupid? you decide!) minds can rant against the fascists and reaffirm their own mythical construction that informs: Liberal ideology always collapses into martial law.

    Remember, the more rules we lay down, the more people accuse of us being fascists.

    Remember: Life is performance art.

    That's what you're up against. If we, as a community, expect to have any notion of principle at all, we must draw a line, suck it in, and have some fucking principles.

    Look at it this way: If a mentally-retarded paranoid schizophrenic, in a delusional state, steps in front of a train believing he can stop it as if he were Superman, is it really "his fault"?

    More mildly: If someone is somehow incapable of recognizing the danger of their actions, is it really their moral fault?

    She doesn't get it. For one reason or another, at one valence or another, it simply isn't clicking. Whether it's because she's too blatantly ignorant to figure it out, or her logical scheme is simply corrupted by circumstance, you need to lighten up.

    If she doesn't get it, she doesn't get it. But so far, what you would think logic dictates is simply not going to happen. Remember: You have the ability to make her posts invisible. Use your damn "ignore" function.

    I've just pilloried two people because of this. One that I have no reason to not respect--we just haven't built much of an association, yet--and one who long merits much of my respect. And this on behalf of someone who simply doesn't want anyone's respect. I'm holding out as long as I can on infraction points: I don't believe in issuing them to the targets on behalf of the aggressor. (Hasn't anyone figured out how important that is to my view of the world? Jesus H. Baldheaded Fucking Christ!)

    So this is it. I've dragged out the goddamned pillory in order to put off doing anything remotely official.

    Use your ignore lists, people. Please? I don't care if you have to think of it in terms of, "At what point would I actually beat up the retarded kid?"

    If that's how you have to think of her, that's fine with me. In fact, if it will bring some peace and quiet around here, then I wholeheartedly encourage it.

    So use your ignore lists. And then we can go on being brutally civilized to one another like we used to. You know, the old routine? Remember? When it was actually fun to take swings at one another?

    Stop making me protect the agitator.

    I know. I know. But stop.

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008

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