"IDF stole organs from 'Palestinians'" claim proven false.

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S.A.M. said:
He's published the picture he took of the body in his report, of which I posted an image in post #2. The central picture is of the boy, Bilal



How do you know its not? It seemed to be hidden very well until the ring was cracked in New York. How hard would it be to hide it in Israel?
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Taking a picture of an autopsied body doesn't prove the IDF stole organs. One picture doesn't verify all the claims that are being made, where is the connection for example

Anyone with access to a morgue can take a picture of an autopsied body.

The case in NY wasn't hidden for long as it was reported and people were arrested.
 
Lucysnow said:
Taking a picture of an autopsied body doesn't prove the IDF stole organs. One picture doesn't verify all the claims that are being made, where is the connection for example

Anyone with access to a morgue can take a picture of an autopsied body.

The case in NY wasn't hidden for long as it was reported and people were arrested.
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What morgue? He took the picture in the village where the IDF dumped the body and asked the family to bury it immediately. The boy's family has confirmed the story and are asking for an investigation into the allegations.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2009/08/200982510415994815.html

The case in NY wasn't hidden for long as it was reported and people were arrested
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It was certainly hidden for the ten years that it was going on.

Besides New York, Brazil and South Africa, Israelis have also been arrested for organ trafficking in Turkey
 
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No Sam I am saying that one could find a picture of an autopsied body, that doesnt mean that the IDF dumped the body. You are simply using non-substantiated information and calling them 'facts'.

Ten years isn't that long, hell drug dealers can go for longer without being caught. As you are from India you know very well that organ theft, exploitation and murder does happen and can happen for a long time. They did a good job at uncovering this case in NY.
 
Lucysnow said:
No Sam I am saying that one could find a picture of an autopsied body, that doesnt mean that the IDF dumped the body. You are simply using non-substantiated information and calling them 'facts'.
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I'd say a Swedish reporter making a claim with a name and a photo and the family substantiating it is enough cause to demand an investigation into the matter.

But seeing how far Goldstone got in Israel, I am not holding my breath. I'm hoping Israel will sue the journalist or the newspaper so that they have to bring in evidence to clear themselves. The second article makes me think the reporter has more info than he is showing.
 
A name and a photo again doesn't constitute an entire conspiracy by the IDF. Why are you unwilling to wait and see if there are more facts that can actually constitute wrong doing/
 
http://www.albawaba.com/en/news/252546

Earlier this month, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet ran a story, entitled “They plunder the organs of our sons,” claiming that during Israel’s incursion into Gaza earlier this year, the Israeli army stole organs from Palestinians who died while in Israeli custody.

Recently, however, it appears that these specific allegations may be inaccurate. The brother of Bilal Ahmed Ghanem, the Palestinian featured in the photograph accompanied by the article, said that, “I don’t know if this is true, we don’t have any evidence to support this.” Moreover, the editor of the newspaper recently said the paper had no evidence that the Israeli army stole any organs, though the article “raises a few questions.”
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Stealing organs goes beyond the claims of a single Palestinian family. Considering Israel's national shortage of available organs - which is partially due to its expulsion from the European Union Organ Donor Network (they were expelled because they accepted organs from abroad but did not donate them) - it would not come as a surprise to learn Palestinians had been used as a source for organs, consensually or not. Although most Jews in Israel can be considered "secular", many of them refuse to donate organs, choose to adopt a religious perspective on the sanctity of the body and are morally opposed to desecrating it during or after life. Organ donation rates in Israel are the lowest in the developed world, primarily because it is against Jewish customs. The organs have to come from somewhere, do they not?

Interestingly enough, organ trading is not illegal in Israel. I haven't pursued the details, but to my knowledge, it is as legal there to advertise a kidney as it is a brand of clothing.
 
Slysoon said:
Stealing organs goes beyond the claims of a single Palestinian family. Considering Israel's national shortage of available organs - which is partially due to its expulsion from the European Union Organ Donor Network (they were expelled because they accepted organs from abroad but did not donate them) - it would not come as a surprise to learn Palestinians had been used as a source for organs, consensually or not. Although most Jews in Israel can be considered "secular", many of them refuse to donate organs, choose to adopt a religious perspective on the sanctity of the body and are morally opposed to desecrating it during or after life. Organ donation rates in Israel are the lowest in the developed world, primarily because it is against Jewish customs. The organs have to come from somewhere, do they not?

Interestingly enough, organ trading is not illegal in Israel. I haven't pursued the details, but to my knowledge, it is as legal there to advertise a kidney as it is a brand of clothing.
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In the context of an anti-Semetic mindset (with some of the above fluff thrown in to cover for that mindeset as a diversion), it would not come as a surprise to see the above commenter, and most of the Muslim world's vile and hateful conspiracy theories being believed. "Widespread accusations" my ass. It's ignorant illiterate (and in some cases even VERY literate) mobs playing broken telephone with rumours and hateful anti-Semetic lies. Then people wonder why it's widely accepted Jews are "sons of monkeys and pigs" in the Arab world.

Everything that you have mentioned above are not proof. They aren't even good enough to be "circumstancial evidence".

spidergoat said:
I'm not saying Newt Gingrich has sexual congress with animals, but we just have to wait and see...
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People who BELIEVE that he is capable of doing this will be sure he did it if someone mentions it without proof.
 
Otheadp: Then people wonder why it's widely accepted Jews are "sons of monkeys and pigs" in the Arab world.

Where do you get that from? Or rather can you provide a link as I am curious as to where that has been stated.
 
Considering Israel's national shortage of available organs - which is partially due to its expulsion from the European Union Organ Donor Network (they were expelled because they accepted organs from abroad but did not donate them)
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Well that at least puts the trafficking in a more reasonable light. Why do they not donate organs? Is it kosher to take organs but not kosher to donate?
 
Notice how otheadp's post is saturated with tones of victimization and rationalization, two survival traits deeply embedded in the Jewish community.

As for allegations of dehumanization by means of viewing Jews as the "sons of monkeys and pigs", it is interesting to note that the transformation of sinners into monkeys and pigs is actually a Jewish tradition which predates Islam. According to Jewish tradition, there was once a fishing community in a seaside town which broke the Sabbath regularly (halakha - Jewish religious law - states the punishment for working on the Sabbath is death). Anyway, the community caught abundant fish on the Sabbath, but instead of being able to enjoy their bounty, they were instead transformed into monkeys and pigs for their crimes by God.
 
S.A.M. said:
Well that at least puts the trafficking in a more reasonable light. Why do they not donate organs? Is it kosher to take organs but not kosher to donate?
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According to Jewish religious law, organs should only be donated to people in immediate danger of death. Also, the body of a deceased person must be buried in its entirety. Whether or not these religious laws influence Israeli culture enough to make Israelis the least likely within the developed world to donate organs, I am not entirely sure.
 
Lucysnow said:
There is a shortage of organs worldwide. It has nothing to do with whether one is jewish or not.
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Yeah but if they've been kicked out of the EU organ donor network that explains why the government is funding organ trade with the national health services. Obviously, they still have to get organs somewhere.
 
Slysoon said:
According to Jewish religious law, organs should only be donated to people in immediate danger of death. Also, the body of a deceased person must be buried in its entirety. Whether or not these religious laws influence Israeli culture enough to make Israelis the least likely within the developed world to donate organs, I am not entirely sure.
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Well according to UNOS the patients who are most in need once they have match requirements this would mean that those patients are in imminent danger. People who have waited the longest are also given priority over those who have been waiting less time. Someone who is two seconds away from death will not be added to a waiting list.
 
S.A.M. said:
Yeah but if they've been kicked out of the EU organ donor network that explains why the government is funding organ trade with the national health services. Obviously, they still have to get organs somewhere.
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I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly. What do you mean by kicked out of the EU? Who's kicked out? Israel is not nor ever was an EU member state.
 
Lucysnow said:
I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly. What do you mean by kicked out of the EU? Who's kicked out? Israel is not nor ever was an EU member state.
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Maybe but they were a member of the organ donor network till 2004.

Although the Chief Rabbinate of Israel ruled that brain-death fits the definition of Halachic death, there remains a widespread misperception in Israel that Jewish law categorically prohibits organ donation. As a result, Jews have the lowest percentage, among all other ethnic groups worldwide, of signing organ-donor cards. So while most western countries achieve organ-donor membership of up to 30% of their population, Israel – a predominately Jewish country – remains at 3%. Israel was recently expelled from the European Union Organ Donor Network because, year after year, they accepted organs but didn’t donate organs. Even though most Israelis are secular, when it comes to issues of death they adopt a more ‘religious’ perspective and don’t donate organs.

http://www.hods.org/english/issuesE.shtml
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