I got it!!! Prove me wrong!

[draqon]

I got it! LIFE=DEATH....since everything alive will die then life leads to death, however if life leads to death then death will lead to life as well. Thus everything that dies gets to be reborn again.

Think of it this way there is point A that is birth and there is point B that is death. A baby is born at point A at specific time and location, the baby follows the road that is life and arrive to point B that is death. When the baby arrives at point B it has nowhere to go but back at point A. However when the "baby" arrives at point A of birth, that point A is in a different timeframe then the point A the baby left, thus the baby is reborn in the same place we call life but in a different timeframe. The only question is what timeframe it is. In fact point A and point B might be the same point...thus the baby arrives to the same point, travels in a circle and arrives at that point but in different timeframe.

Think of it...if you draw a circle you need a starting point...take a pencil and draw a circle...there is a starting point A and the circle ends in the point A once again. To think of it the circle might be a spiral in a 3D...it seems to be arriving at the same point but rather it is the same point in a different timeframe as the parallel z axis represents time.

 

[RoyLennigan]

think of it like this, you were never alive in the first place so its impossible for you to die. what we call life is just a collection of energy that is here because of the collection of events that led to this point. when you die, that energy is released back into the universe. you are no longer limited by your organized being, but you also lose your conscious introspection. you are unlimited in travel, physical ability, sense, or time, but you are unable to pass energy through yourself, you are completely at the whim of cause and effect.

in fact, there is no you; there is no me. there is no individuality because life cannot exist without the environment it is in. your 'individuality' is based on your surroundings--you are part of your environment as the environment is part of you. right now you are 'alive' because energy is passing through your body. you are 'thinking' because energy is passing through you as sensual stimuli and circulated by feedback through a network of conductive nerves. you must always remember that you are not an individual; you cannot live apart from the environment around you--it is part of you, like a vital organ that you would die without.

 

[Communist Hamster]

When the baby arrives at point B it has nowhere to go but back at point A.

Or it could cease existance, and a new baby is created at point A?

 

[Spectrum]

Or there could be non-existence from time 'a' (the starting time of the universe) to time 'b', life from time 'b' to time 'c', and, again, non-existence from point 'c' to point 'd' (the finishing time of the universe).

 

[Maccus]

The sole fact that you can not be proved wrong does not make you right. I will let you know when I die though.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Thus everything that dies gets to be reborn again.

With regards to the title of your post, you’ve posited a logical fallacy called ‘proving a negative’, so the topic is not worth discussing in this form. You cannot disprove something for which there is no evidence in the first place.

 

[Possumking]

I got it! LIFE=DEATH.... however if life leads to death then death will lead to life as well.

No. Death will then lead to life as well? Where is your proof? That's like me saying that because shit goes from my asshole into the toilet, that the shit then has nowhere to go but back into my asshole.

This is one of the stupidest theories I've every read. Possibly more so than creationism.

 

[BSFilter]

The only way this would work is if somehow the energy of our unconscience is preserved during/after death, but good luck proving that one.

 

[spidergoat]

Life and death are aspects of the same thing, just like in and out, up and down, ect.

 

[duendy]

DEEP thread!
matter-energy and consciousness are distinct yet always togther.

matter-energy has extension in space. consciousness does not have extension in space.

all matter-energy is conscious. but consciousness is not 'in' matter energy , because it is NOT located!

se we san say that matter-energy is both local and non-local.
and consciousness is local and not-located

so whats 'begining' and 'end'--like all dualistic concepts they are abstracted by US. and do we make an image of this dualistic conception i ask myself, and you?

do we see tese abstrcts in a certian way.? havewe been inoctrinated to?

do we see it linearly. or dynamically and organically?

what i mea is tat begining and end are a continuum, as is death and life. death is here now with life like warp and woof

we have been indoctrinated to emphasize intellectuality, so tis emphasizes our angist aboutconceptualized abstractw. as toug tey are real. tis doesn't mean NOT doing so means we arent individal AND interconnected with environment

 

[draqon]

The only way this would work is if somehow the energy of our unconscience is preserved during/after death, but good luck proving that one.

follow my Reason.
1) Do you agree that energy of our unconscience is being held inside our body now?

2) If yes, then Do you agree that what defines us is not our body but the choices that we make that define only us?

3) If you agree to 2, then do you also agree that anything in the universe that makes the body you have now allows "you" to exist?

4) Therefore (from 3)...something in our body makes you realize that is you and thus hold energy of your uncoscience...

5) If that is so, then do you accept that possibility that taking out that something will take out the ability of the body to hold uncoscience?

6) If that is so, then that which allows us to realize who we are, was with us during our birth

7) If that is so, then that which allows us to realize who we are, came from our parents

8) Thus, I come to conclusion that we are a combination of souls of our parents... Our parents souls make our one soul. Now reason further...Everything in the universe follows the least energy pathway, does it not? A star explodes and collapses in itself to conserve energy, a galaxy rotates also following laws of the universe to conserve energy. In fact theoretically we can say our universe is lazy...it follows a pathway that needs least energy possible. Now are we not the children of the universe? And do we not follow those ways of the universe? Thus would life is the pathway the universe took that in a particular situation required the least amount of energy. And combination of souls is also the least amount of energy requiring pathway. Energy...any energy never destroys...it only changes shape...form...location...time. Energy has to go somewhere...and that particular instant the least energy requiring pathway is to combine together to be part of one individual, you.

--------------

Do you agree with my logic? If you asked me where would the energy of consciousness go if parents were dead?...to other parents...to other place...were energy was least required...or hang in time waiting until it can capture a body.

Follow my logic and tell me were I am wrong.

 

[tablariddim]

A few years ago I would have agreed a bit with your theory. I would have said that each life form exists in time and space on its own linear string, slowly evolving along the string from pure energy, to microbe, to human and everything else in between, in cycles of life and death. Presently I do not subscribe to this point of view.

 

[draqon]

A few years ago I would have agreed a bit with your theory. I would have said that each life form exists in time and space on its own linear string, slowly evolving along the string from pure energy, to microbe, to human and everything else in between, in cycles of life and death. Presently I do not subscribe to this point of view.

Please read the thread above you...the one I wrote...that is what I believe in.

 

[RoyLennigan]

follow my Reason.
1) Do you agree that energy of our unconscience is being held inside our body now?

no. energy is being cycled and recycled through everything. the only energy that stays with us our entire lives is that which makes up our nervous system. even then, i would wager to say that energy within those cells is shifted. it would be near impossible to track the tiny quanta of energy and whether or not there is any group that stays with us our entire lives. but for the most part, energy simply passes through our system--used for the purpose we need it for and then released because we have no way of storing it for longer than we need it.

2) If yes, then Do you agree that what defines us is not our body but the choices that we make that define only us?

i think you are kind of contradicting your own ideas with this statement. you say that "that which allows us to realize who we are, was with us during our birth" later, but how can this be if we are only the choices we've made in life? i think that our individuality is a constantly interacting relationship between our genetic predispositions/physical abilities and the experiences we gain--what we know by observing.

3) If you agree to 2, then do you also agree that anything in the universe that makes the body you have now allows "you" to exist?

your existance is a constantly modified collection of ordered and specified organic molecules interacting with their environment. you cannot live without the environment around you--it is a part of you because it affects your survival as well as your thoughts. but you are how you are because of the way the molecules and cells are put together. any other pattern and you wouldn't be you. any slight seperation would change things dramatically. the existance of your cells alone does not account for life--its the existance of your cells in their current position that makes life.

4) Therefore (from 3)...something in our body makes you realize that is you and thus hold energy of your uncoscience...

i've often wondered about how our minds are like recievers for electromagnetic signals. its like our brains are tuned in automatically because of their very structure. the chemical energy feeding into the nerve cells from the body (water, oxygen, nutrients) allows them to conduct electrical energy which acts as a carrier for signals through our body. the signals are sent in different locations due to the structure of the brain--affected by the present chemical balance and the layout of synapses between neurons. hitting upon nerves, they react with stored proteins (our memories) so that the present information being sent through (what we are currently observing with our senses) is compared instantly with whatever information is in the stored proteins. we compare past stimuli to present stimuli constantly--that is what makes us act and think.

you could stop there and have that explain consciousness, but i think it can go deeper. the energy that acts as carriers for information through our nervous system isnt exactly restricted to the cranium. electromagnetic waves can pass through a variety of materials, though the frequencies are quite low (less than 10 Hz). studies have shown that outside sources of EM radiation at certain frequencies has an almost mind controlling effect on the human brain. also, many people have practiced meditating using low tones that they feel connect with certain parts of the body and mind.

5) If that is so, then do you accept that possibility that taking out that something will take out the ability of the body to hold uncoscience?

its not something that you could take out without killing the human or making him not human. the base of this consciousness is something that has grown with life for millions if not billions of years. nerve cells tap into this stream of electromagnetism that is prevalent everywhere. the rest of our body would not even function without the nervous system, so whats the point in contemplating it anyway?

6) If that is so, then that which allows us to realize who we are, was with us during our birth

this statement is so abstract. are we ever really able to realize 'who we are'? it is obvious to me that we will never (in this state) be able to realize completely how we exist in this universe--that is, how each cell and each minute particle that enters and exits our body affects our conscious minds and the actions we take. we can make assumptions and some of those assumptions might be close to the truth, but our method of thought is not absolute enough to even care about getting the 'whole truth'. we figure out vague interactions and realize that anything deeper is not worth the effort and devotion to find out. either that or we don't even realize that it gets more complex and there is more to find.

7) If that is so, then that which allows us to realize who we are, came from our parents

in a way, yes, i guess. but the process by which human life is concepted has the ability make new combinations out of the same material and so we have the same genes, but they don't act together quite like our parents' do. its like getting 20 people together for a group project, splitting them into two groups of 10, letting those groups decide their stance on a subject, then taking 5 from one group and 5 from the other to make a 3rd group. then you let the third group decide their stance on the topic. the three groups are obviously going to have different ideas, although the 3rd group will have some similar conclusions as the other two, and some different ones as well because of how the people interact differently.

8) Thus, I come to conclusion that we are a combination of souls of our parents... Our parents souls make our one soul. Now reason further...Everything in the universe follows the least energy pathway, does it not? A star explodes and collapses in itself to conserve energy, a galaxy rotates also following laws of the universe to conserve energy. In fact theoretically we can say our universe is lazy...it follows a pathway that needs least energy possible. Now are we not the children of the universe? And do we not follow those ways of the universe? Thus would life is the pathway the universe took that in a particular situation required the least amount of energy. And combination of souls is also the least amount of energy requiring pathway. Energy...any energy never destroys...it only changes shape...form...location...time. Energy has to go somewhere...and that particular instant the least energy requiring pathway is to combine together to be part of one individual, you.

you are looking at it backwards. the reason why universal processes always take the least energy to do something is because they always happen as soon as the energy needed for it to occur is present. the universe is efficient, not lazy; as soon as the force needed to push a ball is present where it is needed, the ball is pushed--there is no contemplating the consequences, or debating the issue--it happens because the energy is there.

but yes, the particular process energy took here was to form life. the only reason life is still around now is because the main priority of life is to keep itself intact and therefore alive.

--------------

Do you agree with my logic? If you asked me where would the energy of consciousness go if parents were dead?...to other parents...to other place...were energy was least required...or hang in time waiting until it can capture a body.

Follow my logic and tell me were I am wrong.

energy itself is not so distinct as to belong to any one person. in fact, energy passes through us constantly and leaves again--the only energy that does stay is that in the form of matter. and once we die, that matter breaks down into energy again, though usually very slowly. the energy that is used as a carrier--the electricity in the circuit of our nerves--is passed out of our system and replenished constantly. rather than being connected to a specific energy, we are connected to the general energy of the universe--we are part of the universe we live in. i would rather think of us as being part of one and only one thing, than individual things inside another thing.

 

[draqon]

no. energy is being cycled and recycled through everything. the only energy that stays with us our entire lives is that which makes up our nervous system. even then, i would wager to say that energy within those cells is shifted. it would be near impossible to track the tiny quanta of energy and whether or not there is any group that stays with us our entire lives. but for the most part, energy simply passes through our system--used for the purpose we need it for and then released because we have no way of storing it for longer than we need it.

Lol...you obviously dont understand anything what I am talking about. Nervous system has nothing to do with energy I am talking of. Nervous system is bunch of neurons that transmit electricity and make up central nervous system...function of which is to tell what is happening within the body. If a person is removed of his arms, legs, and body, but his brain is sustained by a machine that cycles the blood and nutrients in it...and so forth...that person will still feel like it is him.

i think you are kind of contradicting your own ideas with this statement. you say that "that which allows us to realize who we are, was with us during our birth" later, but how can this be if we are only the choices we've made in life? i think that our individuality is a constantly interacting relationship between our genetic predispositions/physical abilities and the experiences we gain--what we know by observing.

dont jump ahead but follow the logic please. As a baby I had less mass then I do now...I did however know that it was me...I had cosciousness of myself...all that mass that added up now...has nothing to do with me and realization of consciousness, it is thus can be safely assumed that before I was born it was me all the time...and part of me that defines me only.

your existance is a constantly modified collection of ordered and specified organic molecules interacting with their environment. you cannot live without the environment around you--it is a part of you because it affects your survival as well as your thoughts. but you are how you are because of the way the molecules and cells are put together. any other pattern and you wouldn't be you. any slight seperation would change things dramatically. the existance of your cells alone does not account for life--its the existance of your cells in their current position that makes life.

Listen I know that my body is what allows me to live...I am talking that my body has something that defines me only...and that something (probably dna) is what makes me...me only...is what allows me to feel my consciousness. And u say slight separation of molecules would change things dramatically? really? go cut off your nails...do you still feel ur consciousness? yes...well there we go... change of molecules...u lost part of urself and still u feel like it is you as ever before.

i've often wondered about how our minds are like recievers for electromagnetic signals. its like our brains are tuned in automatically because of their very structure. the chemical energy feeding into the nerve cells from the body (water, oxygen, nutrients) allows them to conduct electrical energy which acts as a carrier for signals through our body. the signals are sent in different locations due to the structure of the brain--affected by the present chemical balance and the layout of synapses between neurons. hitting upon nerves, they react with stored proteins (our memories) so that the present information being sent through (what we are currently observing with our senses) is compared instantly with whatever information is in the stored proteins. we compare past stimuli to present stimuli constantly--that is what makes us act and think.

You describing how the body exists...and I know that. I am talking of what it is in body that makes us, us. Why wasnt I born to be a girl say? Why wasnt i born to be a guy sitting in a car that passed by me right now? because there is part of me that defines me only...otherwise I wouldnt exist. Life is a function...and I am a function...all the variables are defined.

you could stop there and have that explain consciousness, but i think it can go deeper. the energy that acts as carriers for information through our nervous system isnt exactly restricted to the cranium. electromagnetic waves can pass through a variety of materials, though the frequencies are quite low (less than 10 Hz). studies have shown that outside sources of EM radiation at certain frequencies has an almost mind controlling effect on the human brain. also, many people have practiced meditating using low tones that they feel connect with certain parts of the body and mind.

frequences of the brain...it is all part of the physical body function...function of the mind...the realization is obviously something that happens with intellect...and brain allows that intellect to develop. However the issue I am talking here is what defines me as me.

its not something that you could take out without killing the human or making him not human. the base of this consciousness is something that has grown with life for millions if not billions of years. nerve cells tap into this stream of electromagnetism that is prevalent everywhere. the rest of our body would not even function without the nervous system, so whats the point in contemplating it anyway?

The nervous system is part of the body function. Humans are alive because of it and realize of their surrounding using it...but thats not the point. The point is that nervous system creates frequency perhaps that defines me as me only.

this statement is so abstract. are we ever really able to realize 'who we are'? it is obvious to me that we will never (in this state) be able to realize completely how we exist in this universe--that is, how each cell and each minute particle that enters and exits our body affects our conscious minds and the actions we take. we can make assumptions and some of those assumptions might be close to the truth, but our method of thought is not absolute enough to even care about getting the 'whole truth'. we figure out vague interactions and realize that anything deeper is not worth the effort and devotion to find out. either that or we don't even realize that it gets more complex and there is more to find.

I certainly realize who I am in this world. I act as I wish. I dont care if this is matrix or virtual reality world. I dont care...because the wished I make are mine and these wishes happen in the world around me as acts. I decide to move the hand, it moves, is the world made so that the hand moves because the world knows I will move the hand? maybe...but this movement of the hand is exactly what I want. Here is an example. Say I was in virtual reality and decided to walk...I am not walking...the computer makes it think like I am walking...I am wishing to walk and this is what happens...this is what I see and feel.

in a way, yes, i guess. but the process by which human life is concepted has the ability make new combinations out of the same material and so we have the same genes, but they don't act together quite like our parents' do. its like getting 20 people together for a group project, splitting them into two groups of 10, letting those groups decide their stance on a subject, then taking 5 from one group and 5 from the other to make a 3rd group. then you let the third group decide their stance on the topic. the three groups are obviously going to have different ideas, although the 3rd group will have some similar conclusions as the other two, and some different ones as well because of how the people interact differently.

A group of people with different ideas...as different as they were still arrive at the same general conclusion...the strength of the ideas is what decides which conclusion it is...the strength of people's minds...energies of consciousness...if my mom had more power of will then that would react in me more...the decisions she made would be most likely the decisions I make.

you are looking at it backwards. the reason why universal processes always take the least energy to do something is because they always happen as soon as the energy needed for it to occur is present. the universe is efficient, not lazy; as soon as the force needed to push a ball is present where it is needed, the ball is pushed--there is no contemplating the consequences, or debating the issue--it happens because the energy is there.

well lazy was an easy way of defining it you know... Yes things react to things...yes laws of physics...but all this happens to spend less energy in the long term.... You got to look further.

i would rather think of us as being part of one and only one thing, than individual things inside another thing.

yes perhaps you are true...but why is it then that I can interact with you, arent we ourselves only?...Do you actually believe that only u exist in the universe and I am here just you imagination you created for yourself to play with?...perhaps...perhaps...just dont go to far with it...

 

[SoLiDUS]

Walls Of Text. :d

 

[draqon]

Walls Of Text. :d

get to the subject...and the walls of text will seem to be in need of more bricks.

 

[RoyLennigan]

Lol...you obviously dont understand anything what I am talking about. Nervous system has nothing to do with energy I am talking of. Nervous system is bunch of neurons that transmit electricity and make up central nervous system...function of which is to tell what is happening within the body. If a person is removed of his arms, legs, and body, but his brain is sustained by a machine that cycles the blood and nutrients in it...and so forth...that person will still feel like it is him.

the nervous system has everything to do with what we are talking about. the human mind is part of the nervous system, i would say its a very major part in human consciousness. and its function is to tell what is happening both in the body and outside the body. our only ties to being aware of the physical world is through our nervous system. have you ever seen or heard of a man removed from his arms, legs, and body and having his brain sustained by a machine? even if it did happen, he would not be the same person as he was when made of tissue. his personality would change because of the change in the situation. a brain inside a machine would feel like a machine and not a living, breathing body.

dont jump ahead but follow the logic please. As a baby I had less mass then I do now...I did however know that it was me...I had cosciousness of myself...all that mass that added up now...has nothing to do with me and realization of consciousness, it is thus can be safely assumed that before I was born it was me all the time...and part of me that defines me only.

i am saying that you cannot 'realize' who you are. you are changing from every moment, if only slightly. as a baby you have no experience to pin down a personality. you only have your instinct and your senses. as you grow older you gain experience and this experience molds your personality--your proficiencies and tendancies. you change as you grow older. your current personality is a collection of familiar pathways that you constantly use and memories that you often or sometimes arbitrarily recollect. when you 'realize who you are' at a young age you are going to think of yourself as a vastly different person when you are at an older age. also, as you grow older, you gain more mass, your body parts become shaped differently, you get stronger and bigger; your personality and how the world affects you changes with these physical changes. as a baby you don't experience the same way as you do when you're 40.

Listen I know that my body is what allows me to live...I am talking that my body has something that defines me only...and that something (probably dna) is what makes me...me only...is what allows me to feel my consciousness. And u say slight separation of molecules would change things dramatically? really? go cut off your nails...do you still feel ur consciousness? yes...well there we go... change of molecules...u lost part of urself and still u feel like it is you as ever before.

dna is what makes your body grow the way it does. it does not make you have the personality you have. when you are a baby, it imbues you with instinct--personal tendencies and talents that are purely genetic. your personality, though, grows from your gain of experience and memories. as you begin to observe more, you tend to be attracted to certain things because of the tendancies in your genes. these attractions mold how your mind associates things and makes it easier to connect with what you are attracted to. this builds and builds and you make a web of attractions, observing so much sometimes that you become attracted to something just because you've spent so much time around it, not neccessarily because you were attracted to it in the first place. there are many more ways the mind interacts thus, but the point is that mostly your personality derives from the environment around you and what you grew up around.

You describing how the body exists...and I know that. I am talking of what it is in body that makes us, us. Why wasnt I born to be a girl say? Why wasnt i born to be a guy sitting in a car that passed by me right now? because there is part of me that defines me only...otherwise I wouldnt exist. Life is a function...and I am a function...all the variables are defined.

i've been trying to explain to you what makes us us. not only is it the unique set of dna that makes up our physical body and mental disposition, but also, it is the experiences we go through (those proteins stored in the brain) and the environment we live in. and our personalities are constantly changing. you weren't born a girl because your dad's sperm was a y chromosome. you weren't born to be the guy in the car by you because you are your father's son, not his father's son--you are the result of his and your mother's half-cells, you grew up in their care and in their environment. just keep looking back in your memories to see why you are the person you are. then ask your parents about when you were a kid. ask them how you were raised and what you were like; where you lived, what was going on around you at the time. these questions will tell you who you are--why you are the way you are.

The nervous system is part of the body function. Humans are alive because of it and realize of their surrounding using it...but thats not the point. The point is that nervous system creates frequency perhaps that defines me as me only.

yes, but you would not be quite the same person if you didn't have a body, would you? you would most certainly act different. you might be in a different mood, or you could be freed from physical constraints, who knows. Also, it might be the brain that creates the frequency, but the flow of energy through the brain occurs without any kind of starter--it just begins circulating when the brain is formed just enough while still in the womb, early in development.

I certainly realize who I am in this world. I act as I wish. I dont care if this is matrix or virtual reality world. I dont care...because the wished I make are mine and these wishes happen in the world around me as acts. I decide to move the hand, it moves, is the world made so that the hand moves because the world knows I will move the hand? maybe...but this movement of the hand is exactly what I want. Here is an example. Say I was in virtual reality and decided to walk...I am not walking...the computer makes it think like I am walking...I am wishing to walk and this is what happens...this is what I see and feel.

i would agree with you. it doesn't matter if it is determined or if we truly have free will. the appearance and experience of free will makes it become free will to us, even if it is not. i think if we ever found the truth out, it would be that the character of our physical existence determines what our choices are, and that we justify them consciously after our subconscious mind has already made the choice.

even deeper than this i have two conflicting ideas about how it might be. one is that all actions, even our own, are determined by cause and effect--everything is inevitable; fate--but that if we did have free will, we would make the same choices that we are destined to make. another idea is that our unconscious decisions result in the reality that we observe--that is, we observe what we expect to observe [subconsciously].

A group of people with different ideas...as different as they were still arrive at the same general conclusion...the strength of the ideas is what decides which conclusion it is...the strength of people's minds...energies of consciousness...if my mom had more power of will then that would react in me more...the decisions she made would be most likely the decisions I make.

i wouldn't be so sure about all that. there are many different groups of people with widely varying ideas--many times conflicting. you speak of 'if's but that is not what actually happened. what actually happened is what resulted in you, not what 'if...' happened.

well lazy was an easy way of defining it you know... Yes things react to things...yes laws of physics...but all this happens to spend less energy in the long term.... You got to look further.

i am looking further. that seems to be the problem, i'm looking a little too far for what you are talking about. the universe will always use as little energy as possible, not because it is lethargic and slow, but because in our universe, any amount of energy will do work and so the least amount of energy will get the job done, whether there is a will for it to be done or not.

yes perhaps you are true...but why is it then that I can interact with you, arent we ourselves only?...Do you actually believe that only u exist in the universe and I am here just you imagination you created for yourself to play with?...perhaps...perhaps...just dont go to far with it...

no no, thats not what i was saying. i am saying that i am a part of the universe and you are a part of the universe as well, along with everyone and everything else. we all interact just like distinct groups of energy interact with each other.

 

[BSFilter]

There are some compelling arguments on this board.

However it really is all speculation.

Energy conservation seems to be the main key.

 

[Chatha]

Dragon wrote

dont jump ahead but follow the logic please. As a baby I had less mass then I do now...I did however know that it was me...I had cosciousness of myself...all that mass that added up now...has nothing to do with me and realization of consciousness, it is thus can be safely assumed that before I was born it was me all the time...and part of me that defines me only.

I don't agree with much of your theory and I cetainly don't agree with this one. How in the blazes did you know it was you when you were a baby and how did you have conciousness of your self? Your experiences determine who you are so how can you have an ID with no experience. What do they smoke in Russia these days?