Hypodescent

[S.A.M.]

Razib has written an interesting post on hypodescent in American culture:

One of the main facts about American life is hypodescent, "the practice of determining the lineage of a child of mixed-race ancestry by assigning the child the race of his or her more socially subordinate parent." Barack Obama & the Kenyan politician Raila Odinga (who, probably falsely, claims to be Obama's first cousin) are both "black," despite the fact that when compared to each other Obama's substantial European ancestry is rather clear. I recall years ago watching the Oprah Winfrey television show where they were discussing the issue of self-hatred with a young black woman who was attempting to become impregnated by a white man (any white man) so that her children would "look white" and be beautiful. An adoption counselor rose up and told this young woman that her agency had many biracial children who they were attempting to place, and "none of them look white, they all look black." The clear and present background axiom here is that the power of black phenotype ensured the futility of this young woman's "quest."

In hindsight it seems to me that these perceptions are mostly socially constructed. Years ago I had a friend who was of mixed European and Japanese origin who was raised in Japan. I recall once that someone stated that they were surprised that her father was a white American, as she looked "totally Japanese." My friend got irritated, and replied that that was rather interesting as growing up in Japan people would tell her how white she looked. Obviously these sorts of gestalt perceptions are scaffolded by social context; in Japan my friend's white characteristics were very salient, while in the United States her Japanese ones were. The norms of reference were socially conditioned, so the scaling of phenotype did not have a linearly proportional effect on perception in identity. In other words, a rather small absolute physical deviation from the social norm can elicit strong relative perceptions of difference.

What are your experiences of this phenomenon?

 

[francois]

Barrack is not considered black because black is implicitly considered by everyone to be inferior. It's because it's different--just like the Razib said. The half Japanese person was considered white by the Japanese and Japanese by the white. It's because different environments expect different things. It's not necessarily racism, as you said, although I'm sure that plays a role. The much simpler explanation is that white people expect people to be white. Yellow people expect people to be yellow. This is of course not the case when someone is obviously white or yellow. But when someone is mixed, the differentness pops out at people more, because they see a monstrosity--someone who likes like themselves a little, but also like something completely different. You really don't have to make everything be about racism, you know. Not every issue comes back to unholy racist Americans.

That said, I too, have wondered why people say Barrack is black. Clearly he has some black ancestry, but he's also clearly more white than anything else. Same with Colin Powell. Halley Berry's black? Give me a break.

 

[Orleander]

Obama is considered black because he looks black. Same with Tiger Woods.

 

[S.A.M.]

How does he look "black"?

 

[francois]

He doesn't look black. He's got brillo hair and relatively dark skin. That's it, really. And Tiger Woods? Give me a break. He's got a few black traits like Barack, but that's it.

 

[Orleander]

so neither of these men look black?? They are white?

 

[S.A.M.]

I've seen much darker Indians; they don't look black to me at all

South Indian Kanikar tribal

 

[Orleander]

Then what do they look?

 

[Kadark]

Indians can be extremely dark (in many cases, darker than most North American Blacks), but they will never have curly hair. I'd focus more on the facial features than the darkness of the skin itself when determining if somebody is Black or not.

 

[S.A.M.]

Duh see added picture

 

[S.A.M.]

Then what do they look?

Obama looks like he is of mixed heritage, mostly Caucasian, I think.

Tiger Woods looks like an Indian. He reminds me of Leander Paes

 

[Kadark]

Duh see added picture

The guy in your added picture doesn't look Black. He just looks like a very dirty Indian in desperate need of a shower. I'm thinking you could take his skin tone down about three shades with a good scrubbin'.

Oh, and if you think Obama looks "mostly Caucasion", then you're colorblind. Or you're just plain stupid.

:shrug:

 

[S.A.M.]

The guy in your added picture doesn't look Black. He just looks like a very dirty Indian in desperate need of a shower. I'm thinking you could take his skin tone down about three shades with a good scrubbin'.

Oh, and if you think Obama looks "mostly Caucasion", then you're colorblind. Or you're just plain stupid.

:shrug:

He looks like a mostly Caucasian mixed heritage to me, similar to this Pakistani guy here:

 

[Kadark]

He looks like a mostly Caucasian mixed heritage to me, similar to this Pakistani guy here:

Like I said, you're either stupid or colorblind if you think Obama looks "mostly Caucasion". He clearly has dark enough skin to be considered Black (much darker than regular white skin), to go along with his curly hair, wide nose, etc.

 

[S.A.M.]

Like I said, you're either stupid or colorblind if you think Obama looks "mostly Caucasion". He clearly has dark enough skin to be considered Black (much darker than regular white skin), to go along with his curly hair, wide nose, etc.

Is this guy white or black?

This one?

 

[greenberg]

Black or white?

 

[Kadark]

Is this guy white or black?

Neither. Just like an oriental person is not White, a dark-skinned Indian/Aboriginal is not Black. The first guy looks South Asian (Indian?), so I'm going to say that he's Brown. The guy below looks like an Aboriginal, so I'm going to say he's Red.

See how it works?

 

[S.A.M.]

Neither. Just like an oriental person is not White, a dark-skinned Indian/Aboriginal is not Black. The first guy looks South Asian (Indian?), so I'm going to say that he's Brown. The guy below looks like an Aboriginal, so I'm going to say he's Red.

See how it works?

The first guy is an Arab, which is officially Caucasian, like the "white" Pakistanis.

The second is a native American.

 

[Enmos]

so neither of these men look black?? They are white?

They look black because everyone can see they are from African descent.
People of African descent are called black by a lot of people.

 

[Kadark]

The first guy is an Arab, which is officially Caucasian, like the "white" Pakistanis.

What the fu ... how are Arabs "officially Caucasian"? What about Afro-Arabs? Are they "officially Caucasian" as well?

The second is a native American.

I figured as much.