Humanizing Animals

...Apparently you do because it has been discussed...ad nauseum, that docking tails and cropping ears have a functional purpose.
Do I really need to rehash this? :shrug:...

yes, I think so.
I've started a new thread just for that purpose.
 
...So Orly, are your children not your companions? If not, what would you call them?
Dogs are companions, but like children, they are also dependents. And unlike most children, they will be dependents their whole lives.

Hmmm, I don't have a huge issue with people calling them companions. I question refusing to call them pets because they are companions.

And in no way shape or form are my children my companions.
 
So people don't really love each other either, then?
Of course they do. But very few animals' love is as comlex as ours, so you can't apply love to every animal

That being said, even people that love each other will turn on each other if necessary. Basic human nature.

Agreed.
Although.. they actually do exist for our pleasure, that's what they are bred for.
I am extremely opposed to "pet ownership" and the treatment of these animals like toys. They are not. And they should not be forced to remain with you if they do not want to.


Of course, not. But that's not because it is an animal. It's because it's a different animal than we are. Dogs see us as alpha group members; caretakers if you will.
Because we force them to. And a wild dog will attack you; and it will not see you as an alpha group member

That may go for cats and other less social animals, but dogs are highly social creatures. They bond with the group and are loyal to it. Most dogs would starve before leaving.
And that's why they, the weak, die.
 
Of course they do. But very few animals' love is as comlex as ours, so you can't apply love to every animal
NO animal's love is as complex as ours, but don't think for one second that dogs (and even other animals) aren't capable of emotion.

That being said, even people that love each other will turn on each other if necessary. Basic human nature.
Unless you incessantly treat a dog like crap, it will never turn on you.

I am extremely opposed to "pet ownership" and the treatment of these animals like toys. They are not. And they should not be forced to remain with you if they do not want to.
While my dogs would not run away if I even left the front door open, where the fuck do you think these dogs would go if they did 'leave'? Out in the street where I could run them over, or wandering into someone's yard and scaring their children? Get. A. Grip. On. Reality. Already. Norsefire.


Because we force them to.
Well, unless they want to go out and fend for themselves, alpha wolves force the pack to stay with them otherwise.


And a wild dog will attack you; and it will not see you as an alpha group member
It will attack you if it sees you as a threat to their pack, just like I would fuck you up if I considered you a threat to my household.
You've never owned a dog in your life, have you Norse? Because you really sound like you are talking out your ass.
And that's why they, the weak, die.[/QUOTE]
 
I am extremely opposed to "pet ownership" and the treatment of these animals like toys. They are not. And they should not be forced to remain with you if they do not want to.
Like it or not, they are here. And we caused them to be here, therefor we should take responsibility for their wellbeing. You can do that by having them neutered (to not increase the pet problem any further) and take care of the ones that are already here the best you can.

Because we force them to. And a wild dog will attack you; and it will not see you as an alpha group member
That's a rather strange way of looking at it. They are 'forced into it' the same way as our kids are 'forced into' accepting us as parents.

And that's why they, the weak, die.
No, that's in nature. We caused pets to be here, so we should take care of them.
 
NO animal's love is as complex as ours, but don't think for one second that dogs (and even other animals) aren't capable of emotion.
I never said they weren't. Just that it was no where near the level of human emotion. Very few animals, if any, approach that level (maybe chimpanzees and a handful of other animals)


Unless you incessantly treat a dog like crap, it will never turn on you.
If it is starving it will. Maybe it will tought it out for a while, but I am confident it would.


While my dogs would not run away if I even left the front door open, where the fuck do you think these dogs would go if they did 'leave'? Out in the street where I could run them over, or wandering into someone's yard and scaring their children? Get. A. Grip. On. Reality. Already. Norsefire.
I acknowledge the problem you are talking about. But remember, that isn't really an excuse. If the dog doesn't like the outside world it will stay. Give it the option.

Remember, dogs are predators. They can look after themselves.



Like it or not, they are here. And we caused them to be here, therefor we should take responsibility for their wellbeing. You can do that by having them neutered (to not increase the pet problem any further) and take care of the ones that are already here the best you can.
Then we can cause them to not be here.


In nature, the only obligation we have is to serve our wellbeing and interest; this means, I suppose, human well being and interest, although you could go even further and say pure individual self interest.
 
Cause them not to be here, Norse? As in kill them?

You're deranged these days. First you want to kill ten year old kids for writing on walls, then you go on a hiatus and you come back wanting to eradicate pet keeping because these animals are "oppressed".

Tell next door's cat who is constantly trying to get into our house that we're oppressing her if we let her in. I dare you.
 
Then we can cause them to not be here.


In nature, the only obligation we have is to serve our wellbeing and interest; this means, I suppose, human well being and interest, although you could go even further and say pure individual self interest.

Uh.. what ?
I thought you said you had changed..
 
Cause them not to be here, Norse? As in kill them?

You're deranged these days. First you want to kill ten year old kids for writing on walls, then you go on a hiatus and you come back wanting to eradicate pet keeping because these animals are "oppressed".

Tell next door's cat who is constantly trying to get into our house that we're oppressing her if we let her in. I dare you.
I didn't say I WANT to kill them. But pets cause problems.
Uh.. what ?
I thought you said you had changed..

What does anything I said have to do with that?

Also I am not saying you shouldn't have animal companions. Just, realize that they are a totally different species and ultimately they want to survive, as much of a "bond" they might have with you
 
What does anything I said have to do with that?
Uh ok..
In the future, be sure to inform us when to take you serious then.

Also I am not saying you shouldn't have animal companions. Just, realize that they are a totally different species and ultimately they want to survive, as much of a "bond" they might have with you
"They" are a totally different species than what ?
Also, I thought you were outraged by the way people treat pets. And now you want to eradicate them ??
I'm confused..
 
I'm not outraged because of any moral concerns. I am just opposed because it is not logical and life cannot be property. I don't approve of that kind of mentality.
 
I'm not outraged because of any moral concerns. I am just opposed because it is not logical and life cannot be property. I don't approve of that kind of mentality.

It's not logical ? How is that an argument ?
I'm pretty sure you do illogical things all the time.

And if life cannot be property how do you justify 'causing them not to exist' ?

I don't consider my pets to be my property by the way, I'm offering them a home. And they seem pretty pleased by it as well.
 
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