Humanity

[Oli]

They do.

Who do?
And what do they do?

An ignorant life form with no place in the universe will not survive. A life form that knows nothing, desires nothing, and can do nothing will die.

Again you're working on supposition and wishful thinking.
Does the universe owe us anything?
Does the universe ultimately care whether we survive or not?
Can you offer anything other than your own desires to support any of this?

We are here.

So what?
Lots of species have "been here".
They could all have said exactly the same thing during their time, and now they're gone.

We have done wonders. We have survived. Humanity is the only species that can know. That can change nature, and that's why we are special.

So what?
You're still assuming that we are something special TO the universe, rather than "just another species" that turned up, will have its day and then fade again".

A frog cannot stop an Asteroid from hitting Earth. Humanity can (to some extent)

Again, so what.
Oh, and the "some extent" is the same extent as a snowball's survivability in Hell.
From a practical engineering point of view.

 

[Norsefire]

They do as in those qualities do matter in the Universe.

It's obvious that an ignorant life form with no desires cannot survive because the fact that in all probability they will kill themselves in some stupid way.

The Universe does not ''want'' anything.

We are special. So what?

It is Humanity that can manipulate the Universe. Humanity is not ruled by Nature, rather Humanity RULES nature.

The universe is just that, the Universe. It can be manipulated at will by anyone possesing the power and knowledge to do that. That is what makes Humanity special. We can stop what we dont want. We can change what we do want

Not yet, of course, but we have a will. Had we had the technology, we could move galaxies, manipulate time, etc, because we know and feel and experience. THAT is what makes humanity special.

 

[Killjoy]

It is Humanity that can manipulate the Universe. Humanity is not ruled by Nature, rather Humanity RULES nature.

Humanity struts pridefully...

Nature simply proceeds, unmindful of the self-aggrandizing Rebel Apes...

Hurricane, Typhoon, Tornado, Tidal Wave, Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Volcano...

The works of man like broken, burnt, and blasted...

Corpses litter the landscape...

Which rules ?

 

[Oli]

They do as in those qualities do matter in the Universe.

Yet to be proven.
Still supposition on your part.

It's obvious that an ignorant life form with no desires cannot survive because the fact that in all probability they will kill themselves in some stupid way.

You mean, as in ignorant enough to build weapons capable of killing themselves off?

The Universe does not ''want'' anything.

Exactly, so why do you believe we are privileged in some way?

We are special. So what?

Only from our own perspective.

It is Humanity that can manipulate the Universe. Humanity is not ruled by Nature, rather Humanity RULES nature.

Ooops. Totally wrong.
Nature decides to throw a hissy fit and we're gone.

The universe is just that, the Universe. It can be manipulated at will by anyone possesing the power and knowledge to do that.

I get it. You're writing a science fiction novel.
You have any evidence at all for this?

That is what makes Humanity special. We can stop what we dont want. We can change what we do want

So we don't want to stop war, prevent crime, feed the hungry, stop using natural resources with a limited supply, etc.
We're doing all this because we think it's a good thing to do?

Not yet, of course, but we have a will. Had we had the technology, we could move galaxies, manipulate time, etc, because we know and feel and experience. THAT is what makes humanity special.

So you're saying we'll survive because we're special enough to move galaxies and bend the universe to our will, and that we'll be capable of all that because we'll survive.
Sort of circular and nonsensical at the same time.
Keep going.
You haven't provided a shred of supporting evidence so far.

 

[Norsefire]

For life forms, yes they are important

Perhaps ignorant for ever wanting to kill ourselves off, but what other creature can build an atom bomb? A frog?

Life is more superior than Nature. Nature simply does what it does, but LIFE does what it wants. With the capability (being the key word) a Life form could stop nature in her tracks. Nature has no will

If we had the capability, we could stop nature. We could control the weather, we could know how to control existence.

Evidence? If you had the necessary knowledge and technology, you COULD change the universe at will. This is obvious. That is what makes Humans special, is the fact that they can want, and they aren't ruled by their surroundings.

No, I'm saying we're special because we have our minds. We have desires, needs, wants, and we understand. Humanity is ruled by what it wants, rather than what it needs.

If we had the necessary feats, we could bend the universe to our will. If there's a will, there's a way. That is what the saying means, if you want to do it, there is a way to do it

And that's Humanity's specialty. We know more than that which rules us (survival). We have beliefs, we have a will, and we can imagine, therefore with the right supply, it is we that are the rulers of the Universe. gods, in a way. If we had this power (which isn't impossible, we just dont know enough and dont have what we need), we could change the Universe at will.

Humanity just keeps learning, to the point where they become gods
That is why Humanity is special as opposed to cockroaches, or germs, or frogs. Those creatures are ruled by survival and do not or cannot look beyond.

 

[Oli]

For life forms, yes they are important

You keep saying it, but you haven't offered any evidence that it's anything more than wishful thinking on your part.

Perhaps ignorant for ever wanting to kill ourselves off, but what other creature can build an atom bomb? A frog?

Again you're back to the adolescent fantasy that weapons=power.
I take it back, you're not a teenager, you must about 10.

Life is more superior than Nature. Nature simply does what it does, but LIFE does what it wants.

Lions etc do what they want?

With the capability (being the key word) a Life form could stop nature in her tracks.

Not so far.
And not in the foreseeable future.

Nature has no will

Never claimed it did.

If we had the capability, we could stop nature. We could control the weather, we could know how to control existence.

And if a frog had the capability it could be god.
Is there a point?
If I had the capability to fly and stop bullets with my chest I'd be superman, but I don't, so I'm not.
And we don't, so we can't.

Evidence? If you had the necessary knowledge and technology, you COULD change the universe at will. This is obvious.

Agreed.
IF we had the necessary knowledge and technology.
But we don't.
And there's no guarantee we ever will.
You're assuming again.

That is what makes Humans special, is the fact that they can want,

Wanting doesn't always mean getting.

and they aren't ruled by their surroundings.

Exactly.
Oh wait, New Orleans, hurricane ring any bells?

No, I'm saying we're special because we have our minds.

Again, it's only special from our point of view.

We have desires, needs, wants,

Other creatures don't?

and we understand.

Understand what?
So far your understanding appears to be limited.

Humanity is ruled by what it wants, rather than what it needs.

Except for the NEED for food, shelter, warmth etc...

If we had the necessary feats, we could bend the universe to our will.

Again, IF.
No guarantees anywhere.

If there's a will, there's a way. That is what the saying means, if you want to do it, there is a way to do it

Yup, and that saying is used by people that have never worked on, say, an engineering project.
Some things are just not possible. No matter how much the boss wants it.

And that's Humanity's specialty. We know more than that which rules us (survival). We have beliefs, we have a will, and we can imagine, therefore with the right supply, it is we that are the rulers of the Universe. gods, in a way. If we had this power (which isn't impossible, we just dont know enough and dont have what we need), we could change the Universe at will.

Again you're taking IF to be WHEN.
Not proven, not guaranteed.
Possibly not even likely.

Humanity just keeps learning, to the point where they become gods
That is why Humanity is special as opposed to cockroaches, or germs, or frogs. Those creatures are ruled by survival and do not or cannot look beyond.

Looking beyond is no guarantee that we'll get there.
NONE whatsoever.

 

[Norsefire]

You keep saying it, but you haven't offered any evidence that it's anything more than wishful thinking on your part.


Again you're back to the adolescent fantasy that weapons=power.
I take it back, you're not a teenager, you must about 10.


Lions etc do what they want?


Not so far.
And not in the foreseeable future.


Never claimed it did.


And if a frog had the capability it could be god.
Is there a point?
If I had the capability to fly and stop bullets with my chest I'd be superman, but I don't, so I'm not.
And we don't, so we can't.


Agreed.
IF we had the necessary knowledge and technology.
But we don't.
And there's no guarantee we ever will.
You're assuming again.


Wanting doesn't always mean getting.


Exactly.
Oh wait, New Orleans, hurricane ring any bells?


Again, it's only special from our point of view.


Other creatures don't?


Understand what?
So far your understanding appears to be limited.


Except for the NEED for food, shelter, warmth etc...


Again, IF.
No guarantees anywhere.


Yup, and that saying is used by people that have never worked on, say, an engineering project.
Some things are just not possible. No matter how much the boss wants it.


Again you're taking IF to be WHEN.
Not proven, not guaranteed.
Possibly not even likely.


Looking beyond is no guarantee that we'll get there.
NONE whatsoever.

So you are saying a Life form with no wants, desires, or anything to rule it will survive?

The power isn't in the weapons. It's in the knowledge required to build the weapons, that's the point! We CAN build weapons, that's what makes us powerful. Or we could dissassemble them.

Yes, I know we don't. Yes, I know we may not have for some time. That' s not the point. It's the fact that we can speculate, that we can think about, and that we can work towards these things that gives us power.

A frog cannot be a god. Why? It is ruled by its necessities, there is no way it could ever create anything because it cannot think past its food. It cannot think of the bigger picture. That' s the whole point.

Humanity is the only species on Earth that has ever wanted something larger, rather than stay under its pointless existence. The only species to work for control. The only species that has manipulated its environment to this extend and WANTS to manipulate it even further.

That's the whole point. Humanity can look past, Humanity has her own will. Nature doesn't always agree, but then again nature cannot agree or disagree. WE CAN. We, with the proper feats, can do as we please. We could stop the need for food and water. We could move Earth, warp time.

You're right, we can't as for now. But we can want to do these things. We can look past our necessities, we can have our own dreams for the Universe. That is what makes Humanity special.