how would you go about transferring human awareness from the human body into an alternative form?

[just me]

this topic incorporates philosophy as well as science because in order for awareness to be transferred from the human body and into an alternative form it must be known what awareness is.

I don't think that scientists are going to be able to map the entire body and brain and replace it in my natural lifetime, so I have had to come up with an alternative, and that is the replacement of the human body and brain at the molecular level by means of nanorobots.

so, anyone who knows anything about them it would be nice if you could contribute.

 

[origin]

I don't think that scientists are going to be able to map the entire body and brain and replace it in my natural lifetime, so I have had to come up with an alternative, and that is the replacement of the human body and brain at the molecular level by means of nanorobots.

Why do you have to come up with a an alternative?

 

[Jeeves]

You couldn't transfer anyone's awareness out of their body, since the physical receptors in the body feed into that awareness. All you could do is record a copy of their memories - whatever portion of their experience is retained in memory. That approximation of a personality would then have to feel its way around and through the new container/vehicle.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't think that scientists are going to be able to map the entire body and brain and replace it in my natural lifetime, so I have had to come up with an alternative, and that is the replacement of the human body and brain at the molecular level by means of nanorobots.

Wait. So you don't think we can do it, but you think we can build machines sophisticated enough to do it?

Kind of a "I don't know how to repair a car, so I built a machine that repairs cars" thing?

Seems to me, there's a bit of a cart before the horse thing going on.

 

[just me]

Why do you have to come up with a an alternative?

because I don't wanna die.

 

[just me]

You couldn't transfer anyone's awareness out of their body, since the physical receptors in the body feed into that awareness. All you could do is record a copy of their memories - whatever portion of their experience is retained in memory. That approximation of a personality would then have to feel its way around and through the new container/vehicle.

but would that really be the person or just a facsimile of them?

 

[just me]

Wait. So you don't think we can do it, but you think we can build machines sophisticated enough to do it?

Kind of a "I don't know how to repair a car, so I built a machine that repairs cars" thing?

Seems to me, there's a bit of a cart before the horse thing going on.

no, if we built nanorobots we wouldn't need to map the body and brain, with nanorobots we could replace it blindly, they would just occupy the approximate positions and orientations that our previous components did.
that's why it is an alternative to mapping the body and brain.
we just have to build a nanorobot small and functional enough to do so.

 

[Jeeves]

but would that really be the person or just a facsimile of them?

It would be a facsimile. If you couldn't tell the difference, does it matter?
The problem with the nanobots is that they would copy the person faithfully, in every detail - including the damage or illness that caused the person to want a new body in the first place. Otherwise - that is, if it's a healthy mind in a healthy body, why have two identical specimens?

 

[just me]

It would be a facsimile. If you couldn't tell the difference, does it matter?
The problem with the nanobots is that they would copy the person faithfully, in every detail - including the damage or illness that caused the person to want a new body in the first place. Otherwise - that is, if it's a healthy mind in a healthy body, why have two identical specimens?

well, yea it matters to me, because I don't want to create a facsimile of myself, I want to download my awareness into an alternative form.
I don't want there to be a person who remembers being me but is not, I want me, as in my awareness of things to occupy this new form.

and the nanorobots could be moved about according to the persons preference after they exactly replaced the body.

besides, the person wouldn't age and die if they weren't made of biological stuff.
I don't mean that the nanorobots would make a new body I mean they would be the new body.

so, the person would be bionic. they wouldn't age, wouldn't get diseased, wouldn't die, wouldn't get fat, excetra.

 

[DaveC426913]

with nanorobots we could replace it blindly, they would just occupy the approximate positions and orientations that our previous components did.

And do what?

The nanorobots would take over the functions of neurons, and dendrites in our brains and pretend to be them?
How do we invent nanorobots that are so smart they know how to do things we don't know enough to teach them?

Again: how does a guy who doesn't know how to repair a car, build a machine that repairs cars?

 

[just me]

And do what?

The nanorobots would take over the functions of neurons, and dendrites in our brains and pretend to be them?
How do we invent nanorobots that are so smart they know how to do things we don't know enough to teach them?

Again: how does a guy who doesn't know how to repair a car, build a machine that repairs cars?

​

the nanorobots would have to be smaller than cells in order to create facsimiles of them that functioned properly.
no individual robot would pretend to be an individual cell.

and besides, the body isn't perfect, some deviation from the original blueprint wouldn't hurt.
it is the parts of the body which incorporate quantum processes which would be troublesome, as nanorobots are too large to accurately imitate these processes.

the smaller the robots, the more accurate the imitation.
it is just my hope that the imitation is accurate enough to perform all of the nesacery functions which the body does already.

the advantage of replacing the body below the cellular level is that only 1 sort of nanorobot would be required to do so, and different arrangements of this nanorobot would serve as different types of cells.

 

[just me]

and as for neurons I plan to replace the transfer of ions with the transfer of these nanorobots.
no silly charge differential nonsense involved with that, its a much simpler method.

most other body systems, the circulatory system, the lymphatic system, and so on, are only designed to sustain the biological body and are therefore irrelevant to the new one, except in making it look more human.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

science does not know if the human consciousness is completely electrical, or if it is combined biological electro-chemical
attempting to shift it as one form into something else might be like putting it through a cake mixer

 

[just me]

science does not know if the human consciousness is completely electrical, or if it is combined biological electro-chemical
attempting to shift it as one form into something else might be like putting it through a cake mixer

​

science knows a bit about where it is situated though, in those three giant pyramidal cells which signals from the sensory apparatus all converge on, correlating with the time it takes for conscious percepts of things to arise probably.
so, I could just leave those alone and replace the rest of the body.
I would bring philosophy in but I don't want this thread to become too contaminated by it.

 

[Jeeves]

I want me, as in my awareness of things to occupy this new form.

Too bad.

and the nanorobots could be moved about according to the persons preference after they exactly replaced the body.

You can command them to move around, but you don't know enough to tell them where to move or how to perform any of the functions that your body can't perform anymore.
The limitation is still the same: what the human controller doesn't know, the nanites can't learn.
CTOI - How do you communicate with them at all?
If you could tell your skin cells to "move about", your mind could heal wounds in a biological body, or seal off an inflamed appendix or fix a leaky mitral valve. Then you wouldn't need nanobots.

so, the person would be bionic. they wouldn't age, wouldn't get diseased, wouldn't die, wouldn't get fat, excetra.

Whatever they learned from the cells they were told to replace is all they know. How those cells behave is the only way they can behave - obesity, peanut allergy, cirrhosis, arterial plaques and all.
You can't win.

 

[C C]

how would you go about transferring human awareness from the human body into an alternative form?

The ability to measure, keep and indicate time is a native function arising from the design or workings of any clock. Manufacturers don't transfer that from older mechanical clocks to new, completely electronic or solid-state clocks (as if timekeeping is a substance).

Similar with consciousness. A hypothetical synthetic organism or machine would be engineered to privately exhibit such experiential content in its "thought" operations and processing of sensor data.[*] Phenomenal events would emerge and have indigenous association with the applicable system or sub-systems, minus transmigration from existing biological humans/animals via either technological or "supernatural" means.

- - - footnote - - -

[*] Granting that detailed knowledge of how to do that and how to explain it (if necessary) becomes available in the future.

 

[just me]

Too bad.


You can command them to move around, but you don't know enough to tell them where to move or how to perform any of the functions that your body can't perform anymore.
The limitation is still the same: what the human controller doesn't know, the nanites can't learn.
CTOI - How do you communicate with them at all?
If you could tell your skin cells to "move about", your mind could heal wounds in a biological body, or seal off an inflamed appendix or fix a leaky mitral valve. Then you wouldn't need nanobots.


Whatever they learned from the cells they were told to replace is all they know. How those cells behave is the only way they can behave - obesity, peanut allergy, cirrhosis, arterial plaques and all.
You can't win.

if the body was bionic it would barely have to perform any of the functions it did previously, because most of those functions are required only to keep the biological body alive, or for it to breed.

and none of the nanorobots really have to move at all except those responsible for transferring information through the brain and nervous system and those comprising muscles, all of the rest could stay in one place.
I can take care of those 2 exceptions.

as for the question of how to communicate with them, or get them to move around, I don't know.
I don't know a few of the nitty gritty details, that's why I am asking others.
but a macroscopic robot can be told what to do based on the whims and fancies of a human being, so why not a microscopic one?

If you can't contribute anything except "it is not possible because I said so" then you are not much help.

 

[just me]

The ability to measure, keep and indicate time is a native function arising from the design or workings of any clock. Manufacturers don't transfer that from older mechanical clocks to new, completely electronic or solid-state clocks (as if timekeeping is a substance).

Similar with consciousness. A hypothetical synthetic organism or machine would be engineered to privately exhibit such experiential content in its "thought" operations and processing of sensor data.[*] Phenomenal events would emerge and have indigenous association with the applicable system or sub-systems, minus transmigration from existing biological humans/animals via either technological or "supernatural" means.

- - - footnote - - -

[*] Granting that detailed knowledge of how to do that and how to explain it (if necessary) becomes available in the future.

I do not believe that the awareness of things is the result of some magical electronic pattern in the brain.
the brain is more like a computer which automatically regulates body functions.
I do not want this thread to be contaminated with philosophy, so I will start another one about this, its called why am I aware? and it is in the general philosophy section of the forums.

 

[just me]

all that these nanorobots would need to know, to replace the basic structure of the body, is how to recreate any given material as accurately as they can given their size.

 

[Seattle]

I do not believe that the awareness of things is the result of some magical electronic pattern in the brain.
the brain is more like a computer which automatically regulates body functions.
I do not want this thread to be contaminated with philosophy, so I will start another one about this, its called why am I aware? and it is in the general philosophy section of the forums.

You don't want it to be contaminated by philosophy so you are going to put it under general philosophy? That makes no sense.

By the way, you are going to die one day. Best make the best of this life.