How to spot misogynists and misandrists

wegs said:
I think it's possible for men to get hurt by patriarchy, albeit not in the same oppressive and discriminatory ways as women. Some men who feel that a patriarchal system doesn't allow them the safety to feel and express their emotions (especially towards women) for example, might stay silent in fear of appearing ''weak.'' The expectation to behave in a stoic fashion, or authoritative over women might not sit well with some men, but in a patriarchal system, they might swallow their feelings and follow the herd. (I'm guessing, but it seems possible.)

Another way to look at patriarchy is that it defines gender roles, not only for women, but also for men...in a very rigid kind of way. It's not flexible, and it's extremely self-serving to men who enjoy dominating and controlling women. (and the cultural narrative) Because of this, it creates contempt between men and women, however this is caused by patriarchal men. But, there comes a point when all the finger pointing in the world isn't going to heal us, as a society. How do we bridge the relational gap between men and women, when it comes to the pain caused by patriarchy?
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You might find this paper interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5920542/
 
Quantum Quack said:
My personal belief is that we simply do not have enough time. Nature is going to do it for us... We need to use all our resources to build sustainable habitats so that we as a race do not become extinct.
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You think we are going to go extinct? How, exactly? We certainly have the power to make life miserable for ourselves, but extinction? I think perhaps you have been watching too many apocalypse movies.
The patriarchal system has failed humanity terribly... and change is inevitable.
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Change is always inevitable. And the patriarchal system has not "failed humanity terribly" any more than ancient matriarchal societies failed humanity terribly. It is just a poor way to do things. Things are slowly changing - but it will be a long time before we see anything like equal opportunity.
Think about it... with the birth of the feminist ideal of gender equality and merit, the issue of bigotry, racism etc may very well evaporate because the emphasis is no longer on power but on merit.
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We freed the slaves over 150 years ago. Racism did not disappear.
We passed civil rights laws and decided cases in favor of racial equality. Racism did not disappear.
Women got the right to vote. Sexism did not disappear.
Women got the right to serve in the military, and become doctors, paramedics and police. We've had female senators, presidential candidates, secretaries of state and Supreme Court justices. Sexism has not disappeared.

We are headed in the right direction, but we have a long way to go.
 
billvon said:
You think we are going to go extinct?
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Nope!
Climate change will eventually force habitat construction upon us but by then the "extinction threshold" becomes a real possibility unless the smart ones get their act together and design and build sustainable communities...

You could use the biblical story of Noah's Ark as a good analogy.
Replace the name Noah with the words Climate Science
the word God with Nature
the rains with climate catastrophe
the general population with climate change deniers
and see how you go...

billvon said:
We are headed in the right direction, but we have a long way to go.
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With out strong affirmative action you may never get there. Male addiction to power is not going to be easy to get over..
 
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Bells said:
You might find this paper interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5920542/
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This is exceptionally interesting, thanks for posting this Bells. I found it curious, the socio economic/demographic etc breakdown and the ''misogyny scale'' (questionnaire) in the center of the paper. There doesn't seem to be enough (mainstream) conversation about misogyny, in terms of how it affects society on a broader scale. I've only viewed it from my (and other women's perspectives) as a ''victim'' of it at times, but not how it (misogynistic attitudes) can potentially affect men in modern day society.
 
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Quantum Quack said:
Nope!
Climate change will eventually force habitat construction upon us but by then the "extinction threshold" becomes a real possibility unless the smart ones get their act together and design and build sustainable communities...
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Or people will just . . . farm and build like they do now. Unfortunately there is no real need to be sustainable if you are in it for yourself.

But that's a discussion for another thread. I don't really feel like arguing any more about the patriarchy thing because I think you and I are basically in agreement; we're just arguing over semantics, which isn't that fruitful.
 
billvon said:
Or people will just . . . farm and build like they do now. Unfortunately there is no real need to be sustainable if you are in it for yourself.
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Farming, logistics, etc are all going to be seriously effected when you think of the numbers. Frequent Heatwaves of 60+ deg C frequent flooding, intense drought, no forests surviving, no insects = no food for so many people plus many factors not yet even considered. We are sleep walking in to a nightmare, a nightmare becoming worse every season.

The current Corona virus outbreak currently spreading around the globe may eventually be found to be associated with climate change**.... with potentially more novel and new viruses yet to be revealed.
(**) Animal products derived from long term climate stressed animals. Example: Fish in waters that they normally do not swim in mixing with breeds that they normally do not have contact with... etc
But that's a discussion for another thread. I don't really feel like arguing any more about the patriarchy thing because I think you and I are basically in agreement; we're just arguing over semantics, which isn't that fruitful.
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Fair enough... later perhaps.
 
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wegs said:
This is exceptionally interesting, thanks for posting this Bells. I found it curious, the socio economic/demographic etc breakdown and the ''misogyny scale'' (questionnaire) in the center of the paper. There doesn't seem to be enough (mainstream) conversation about misogyny, in terms of how it affects society on a broader scale. I've only viewed it from my (and other women's perspectives) as a ''victim'' of it at times, but not how it (misogynistic attitudes) can potentially affect men in modern day society.
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A few things that should be noted about that paper.

It was based on a study of men in Tijuana, Mexico. Where there is a fairly strong male dominant ideal to begin with, but it was also looking at how drugs affect how these men think, feel, behave. Mexico is very much patriarchal, and misogyny is rife. And it may very well be that misogyny that stops men from getting help to begin with.

Most importantly, violence against women in Mexico and in parts of South America is exceptionally high.

According to United Nations statistics, around 64,000 women and girls are killed annually. Moreover, 14 of the top 25 countries with the highest rate of femicides resides in Latin America and the Caribbean. Specific to Mexico, UN statistics show that an average of seven women are murdered daily. Some attribute the recent spike in Mexico’s femicides to the rise in violence between organized crime groups. Regardless, Mexico’s rate of femicides reflects the level of impunity characteristic of Mexico’s culture even today.

[...]

In a UN Womens’ Report “The long Road to justice, prosecuting femicide in Mexico,” the authors explain a direct correlation between Mexico’s “patriarchal, misogynist mindset and gender violence and girls which can result in death is perpetrated, in most cases, to conserve and reproduce the submission and subordination of them derived from relationships to power.” According to the authors of the report, misogyny is still very relevant in Mexico. A survey released by Reuters ranked Mexico City the fourth most dangerous city for women. According to a collaborative report, La Violencia Feminicida en México, Aproximaciones y Tendencias 1985-2016, there has been little change to the overall cultural mindset, which marginalized women as “disposable” and permeating gender-based violence, and ultimately, femicide. In 2016, there were 2,746 femicides in Mexico and in the last decade there was 23,800.​


Mexico is an extreme, but the paper itself is interesting in its own right.

To alter things in Mexico would take a massive cultural shift, which is a generational thing. This is unfortunately not something that will change in my or even our children's lifetime. Awareness, education programs in schools starting from the moment they start school, may shift some of those figures a bit, and that may help. Increasing punishment is not going to work, especially given how few femicide's are even investigated by police.
 
I hate it.
I cried like 5 times at school and everyone said it was because I was a teenage girl that I cried a lot.
but I don't, those were the only times I cried all YEAR.
it was just my bad luck that I happened to have a vast audience every single time.
 
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just me said:
I hate it.
I cried like 3 times at school and everyone said it was because I was a teenage girl that I cried a lot.
but I don't, those were the only times I cried all YEAR.
it was just my bad luck that I happened to have a vast audience every single time.
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Hm.

- Do you identify as a female, and
- did they question your gender - or simply stereotyped you as your gender.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Hm, that's sort of less about genderism than about sexism and bullying.

I guess the provisos there are:
- you do identify as a female, and
- they didn't question your gender - they stereotyped you as your gender.
Yes?
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that's an accurate summation.
 
Misogyny isn’t stereotyping - it’s a definition that fits certain men who have a disdain or are threatened by women, and who often seek to hurt them physically, sexually or emotionally.
 
parmalee said:
Jesus fuck, just do the world a favor and kill yourself.


And to anyone who objects to the above: get over it. Human life ain't precious, and there's 7 billion spares anyway. The guys is a piece of shit, and if that isn't apparent to the reader from his posts, well... consider the above.
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The only piece of shit I can see here is you. Don't tell me to kill myself you fucking piece of shit Internet warrior.
 
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