OmegaSeven
Registered Member
To me it works a whole lot better than most previous versions of windows and how does it work for are do you even have it yet?
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how good is windows xp?
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OmegaSeven ...
Welcome to Sciforums. Are you using the Beta version or the commercial version?
There are other aspects to XP that you may want to be aware of. A guy I know, James Roberts, wrote an article re.his feelings about XP and MS. I'm posting a part of it with his permission.
Anyway, last week my colleagues went to the Microsoft launch of the
new XP Office product. They came back very angry. Apparently, they
were not the only ones to be angered: many people (we are talking
mostly of dealers, here) had walked out. And I have, after much
discussion and pondering, arrived at a decision; if the information
I have been given so far is in fact accurate and true, I am not
going to continue to promote (or buy, or sell, and eventually even
use) Microsoft products in the future. The reasons for this are very
relevant to hobby and small-scale industrial electronics, and are as follows:
There are two new product ranges coming shortly from Microsoft, the
first - which has to all intents and purposes already been
launched - is XP Office. Coming soon will be Windows XP the
operating system. XP Office promises various interesting
innovations, and will no doubt deliver some 30 to 70 percent of
them. However there is also a "Gotcha": XP office will not be
supplied to businesses in functional form. It will be supplied in
installable form, but to activate the product it will be necessary
to register with Microsoft and get an activation key. As I have
described it so far, this is an irritating but not altogether
surprising innovation clearly designed to limit the activities of
software pirates, at all levels. However - it doesn't end there.
The activation key is tagged to the specific hardware set-up of the
machine - if more than three elements of the hardware set-up of the
computer are changed the key will expire. It will then be necessary
to contact Microsoft again to get a new activation key.
Now it is evident that for a typical 'office' user of Microsoft XP
Office all this will have little effect - such users typically are
not allowed to touch the insides of their computer anyway. But I
have been known to make ten changes in my machine in a day - or more
when I am messing around with some add-on and rebuilding and
changing and reconfiguring and... well, use your imagination. I
expect XP Office will not work well for me. And that's not all
folks -- there's more!!
Coming real soon now is Windows XP. Windows XP is (as I understand
it) the final amalgamation of the old Windows NT stream with Windows
95. Windows 95 was in my view a much underrated product: it was a
brilliant expedient that managed backward and forward compatibility
and, remarkably, it worked well enough. Windows NT however has
always been a much more stable product, as we would expect from the
designer of Digital VMS (hint - HAL?). So the convergence of NT and
95 into one product should be welcomed -- no?
Well, perhaps not. According to the information I have, Windows XP
will REQUIRE all executable software to have a digital signature
before the operating system will run it. Yes, I did say "require".
What is wrong with that? Obviously, virus packages, Trojans, worms
and so on won't be digitally signed (if they were the author could
be traced!) so the system will be protected against them -- since
they will not be executed. So far, so good. And plainly, if you are
a developer of mass-market software, all that is needed is to
validate the product and get a digital signature. This is quite
expensive, but amortized against sales of hundreds of thousands of
units will lead to only a small cost increase.
But what if you are a small-scale manufacturer writing customised
software for, say -- machine tool fabrication? Or, specialised
accounts packages? Garment manufacturer quality control? Production
control of a small electronics fab? In that case, it is likely
that no two of the packages you sell will ever be the same, and so
you will have to enter into the expense of getting a validated
digital signature for every single package you sell. And what if
you are (shock horror!) a hobbyist? Progressively, with each new
version of Windows, operating system security has been improved --
but at the same time making it harder and harder to actually use the
machine for anything that is outside the narrow definition conceived
by the package designers. Whose computer is it -- anyway? Well the
answer is -- it is MY computer, not Microsoft's computer, and I will
do with it what I like. Languages such as QBASIC are insecure
because they can do anything on, and to, the machine. Languages
such as Visual Basic are much more 'secure', because all hardware
access is restricted by the operating system kernel. But then you
need to write/get a DLL to be able to talk to the hardware of the
machine. Any security provisions are there to protect me and my data
and my machine, and if they don't do that they are useless to me.
These new provisions seem to have a lot more to do with protecting
Microsoft.
Gave me second thoughts about upgrading from Win2k.
Welcome to Sciforums. Are you using the Beta version or the commercial version?
There are other aspects to XP that you may want to be aware of. A guy I know, James Roberts, wrote an article re.his feelings about XP and MS. I'm posting a part of it with his permission.
Anyway, last week my colleagues went to the Microsoft launch of the
new XP Office product. They came back very angry. Apparently, they
were not the only ones to be angered: many people (we are talking
mostly of dealers, here) had walked out. And I have, after much
discussion and pondering, arrived at a decision; if the information
I have been given so far is in fact accurate and true, I am not
going to continue to promote (or buy, or sell, and eventually even
use) Microsoft products in the future. The reasons for this are very
relevant to hobby and small-scale industrial electronics, and are as follows:
There are two new product ranges coming shortly from Microsoft, the
first - which has to all intents and purposes already been
launched - is XP Office. Coming soon will be Windows XP the
operating system. XP Office promises various interesting
innovations, and will no doubt deliver some 30 to 70 percent of
them. However there is also a "Gotcha": XP office will not be
supplied to businesses in functional form. It will be supplied in
installable form, but to activate the product it will be necessary
to register with Microsoft and get an activation key. As I have
described it so far, this is an irritating but not altogether
surprising innovation clearly designed to limit the activities of
software pirates, at all levels. However - it doesn't end there.
The activation key is tagged to the specific hardware set-up of the
machine - if more than three elements of the hardware set-up of the
computer are changed the key will expire. It will then be necessary
to contact Microsoft again to get a new activation key.
Now it is evident that for a typical 'office' user of Microsoft XP
Office all this will have little effect - such users typically are
not allowed to touch the insides of their computer anyway. But I
have been known to make ten changes in my machine in a day - or more
when I am messing around with some add-on and rebuilding and
changing and reconfiguring and... well, use your imagination. I
expect XP Office will not work well for me. And that's not all
folks -- there's more!!
Coming real soon now is Windows XP. Windows XP is (as I understand
it) the final amalgamation of the old Windows NT stream with Windows
95. Windows 95 was in my view a much underrated product: it was a
brilliant expedient that managed backward and forward compatibility
and, remarkably, it worked well enough. Windows NT however has
always been a much more stable product, as we would expect from the
designer of Digital VMS (hint - HAL?). So the convergence of NT and
95 into one product should be welcomed -- no?
Well, perhaps not. According to the information I have, Windows XP
will REQUIRE all executable software to have a digital signature
before the operating system will run it. Yes, I did say "require".
What is wrong with that? Obviously, virus packages, Trojans, worms
and so on won't be digitally signed (if they were the author could
be traced!) so the system will be protected against them -- since
they will not be executed. So far, so good. And plainly, if you are
a developer of mass-market software, all that is needed is to
validate the product and get a digital signature. This is quite
expensive, but amortized against sales of hundreds of thousands of
units will lead to only a small cost increase.
But what if you are a small-scale manufacturer writing customised
software for, say -- machine tool fabrication? Or, specialised
accounts packages? Garment manufacturer quality control? Production
control of a small electronics fab? In that case, it is likely
that no two of the packages you sell will ever be the same, and so
you will have to enter into the expense of getting a validated
digital signature for every single package you sell. And what if
you are (shock horror!) a hobbyist? Progressively, with each new
version of Windows, operating system security has been improved --
but at the same time making it harder and harder to actually use the
machine for anything that is outside the narrow definition conceived
by the package designers. Whose computer is it -- anyway? Well the
answer is -- it is MY computer, not Microsoft's computer, and I will
do with it what I like. Languages such as QBASIC are insecure
because they can do anything on, and to, the machine. Languages
such as Visual Basic are much more 'secure', because all hardware
access is restricted by the operating system kernel. But then you
need to write/get a DLL to be able to talk to the hardware of the
machine. Any security provisions are there to protect me and my data
and my machine, and if they don't do that they are useless to me.
These new provisions seem to have a lot more to do with protecting
Microsoft.
Gave me second thoughts about upgrading from Win2k.
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FlowerPower
Registered Member
WHAT?!!!?
Does this mean that when I write a program in visual Basic and compile it, it will be impossible to run the program (ON MY OWN MACHINE) until I get apply for a digital signature??? This sounds crazy- I have to imagine that there is a work around for the hobbyist. I was just about to purchase a new machine with Windows XP, but I will surely be doing some research first.
OmegaSeven
Registered Member
I'm useing the home version.
Omega7
Currently using Win Me and about 90% happy with it but the all too soon launch of yet another damn Microsoft "New Product" smacks to me of "can't get it right, lets try another approach". Just how much money is old Bill going to make out of yet another damn upgrade? I have finally decided, after reading Chagur's excellent reply, is that I will not bother this time. I will wait for the all new Windows XXXXXP or something! These "upgrades" come far too often for poor old me, suffering on a home computer, trying to keep up. No sooner do I have a decent pc than it is outdated, the same with windows et al.
Currently using Win Me and about 90% happy with it but the all too soon launch of yet another damn Microsoft "New Product" smacks to me of "can't get it right, lets try another approach". Just how much money is old Bill going to make out of yet another damn upgrade? I have finally decided, after reading Chagur's excellent reply, is that I will not bother this time. I will wait for the all new Windows XXXXXP or something! These "upgrades" come far too often for poor old me, suffering on a home computer, trying to keep up. No sooner do I have a decent pc than it is outdated, the same with windows et al.
there's a cure for xp
My friend has Windows XP and guess what, he's quite happy with it. Yes it is true that you cannot change your hardware without Microsofts permission, but he has a CRACKED version of WINDOWS XP, so no need for stress.
My personal thoughts are that Microsoft now totally stinks.
I, myself, change hardware for my PC almost every month, not to mention that I am messing with it almost every week. Microsoft wants to have control of everything.
And what to do for those people who haven't got internet connection .
I'm using Windows ME, tried Linux, but that's not for me, atleast at this stage of Linux development.
My friend has Windows XP and guess what, he's quite happy with it. Yes it is true that you cannot change your hardware without Microsofts permission, but he has a CRACKED version of WINDOWS XP, so no need for stress.
My personal thoughts are that Microsoft now totally stinks.
I, myself, change hardware for my PC almost every month, not to mention that I am messing with it almost every week. Microsoft wants to have control of everything.
And what to do for those people who haven't got internet connection
.I'm using Windows ME, tried Linux, but that's not for me, atleast at this stage of Linux development.
Well as you well know "Cracked" software is quite frowned upon (I can hear someone hissing at that statement)
Of course I'm going to have to put my thoughts down just for the free speech aspect. I have had it up to limits beyond human psyche can withstand over Microsloth products.
I admit I'm running one of their OS's, but I admit this... it's brought nothing but Pain, Suffering and Torture to my life. The system hounds me an taunts me with Blue Screens of Death, And always manages to kill processes that I'm in the middle of doing.
I was at war with my father of the amount of computers that I supposedly crashed (which was truly down to an operating system that should have been released without the "BETA" written after it) Okay so Win98 is old, I only don't upgrade because I don't believe there should be a need to upgrade. The 95/98 systems were so diabolical I don't think they will learn any time soon.
As for XP, Well I've been messing around trying to get Internet Explorer 6.0 to load, and guess what... the blasted thing won't load. What was it's reason... A ruddy certificate that is out of date. That certificate is one of MICROSLOTHS certificates, and if it won't work coming from them, Who's going to save you XP owners.
Personally I will refrain from buying any more microsloth products and I am not
going to say that I will probably use their software but only if it's free and cracked like everyone else should.
Of course I'm going to have to put my thoughts down just for the free speech aspect. I have had it up to limits beyond human psyche can withstand over Microsloth products.
I admit I'm running one of their OS's, but I admit this... it's brought nothing but Pain, Suffering and Torture to my life. The system hounds me an taunts me with Blue Screens of Death, And always manages to kill processes that I'm in the middle of doing.
I was at war with my father of the amount of computers that I supposedly crashed (which was truly down to an operating system that should have been released without the "BETA" written after it) Okay so Win98 is old, I only don't upgrade because I don't believe there should be a need to upgrade. The 95/98 systems were so diabolical I don't think they will learn any time soon.
As for XP, Well I've been messing around trying to get Internet Explorer 6.0 to load, and guess what... the blasted thing won't load. What was it's reason... A ruddy certificate that is out of date. That certificate is one of MICROSLOTHS certificates, and if it won't work coming from them, Who's going to save you XP owners.
Personally I will refrain from buying any more microsloth products and I am not
going to say that I will probably use their software but only if it's free and cracked like everyone else should.
So now it is time to answer with some woes of my own in dealing with Windows XP commercial version. I suffered through a lightning strike with my old 166Mz computer running Windows 95. Seems it developed several glitches afterwards, fried modem, random bad bits on the hard drive, unique failures, and random bugs. So I get this bright idea, ”Get a new computer for a change.”
Where did I get this dumb idea from????!!!!! Well, everything loaded alright, I had the surge protector in place so no more worries about lightning. Everything runs fine. Until….
I find that somehow this monster has remembered a password I don’t have. A 16 character password! Mine isn’t that long. So you go in and change it, Right? Wrong.
You can highlight it, change it, then come back and it is still there. Restore? Nope. Return it to a previous day that it wasn’t there? Nope, doesn’t work, it’s still there. To make it even worse, there is no restore disk! Why? It takes 17 disks to restore and that is to much for the user to do! So friendly Microsoft to the rescue, We’ll put it on the hard drive in a partition that the user doesn’t access. So you format the user portion through windows. So does formatting get rid of the password? No. So what is the solution? Send the thing back and get a new one. To say the least after 4 hours of long distance phone calls that HP will not pay for to fix their product you have to do with out it for another week. Excellent move, Microsoft! Knowing what I know now, I would not touch another XP version by choice.
Where did I get this dumb idea from????!!!!! Well, everything loaded alright, I had the surge protector in place so no more worries about lightning. Everything runs fine. Until….
I find that somehow this monster has remembered a password I don’t have. A 16 character password! Mine isn’t that long. So you go in and change it, Right? Wrong.
You can highlight it, change it, then come back and it is still there. Restore? Nope. Return it to a previous day that it wasn’t there? Nope, doesn’t work, it’s still there. To make it even worse, there is no restore disk! Why? It takes 17 disks to restore and that is to much for the user to do! So friendly Microsoft to the rescue, We’ll put it on the hard drive in a partition that the user doesn’t access. So you format the user portion through windows. So does formatting get rid of the password? No. So what is the solution? Send the thing back and get a new one. To say the least after 4 hours of long distance phone calls that HP will not pay for to fix their product you have to do with out it for another week. Excellent move, Microsoft! Knowing what I know now, I would not touch another XP version by choice.
I know what you mean about passwords, I'm always having problems remembering the ruddy things.. until I came across this little proggy (I'm not sure if it will be of any use)
It's called Behind the Asterix's, basically it intercepts your Kernel calls on password protection, so you just move your mouse over the Asterix's that your unrevealed password has, and the little window this proggy generates shows you your PASSWORD Revealed.
It proves just how insecure these systems truly are when you have the ability to monitor processes. (I'm not sure if it will work on NT/2000 or XP haven't tried them with it)
I don't know where you were having your Password trouble Wet1 (If you can operate your system or not) but if you can run Bta, it hopefully give you the 16 alphanumeric letters or ascii.
(It didn't come up with any viruses with AVG, so it should be clean, feel free to check for yourself)
It's called Behind the Asterix's, basically it intercepts your Kernel calls on password protection, so you just move your mouse over the Asterix's that your unrevealed password has, and the little window this proggy generates shows you your PASSWORD Revealed.
It proves just how insecure these systems truly are when you have the ability to monitor processes. (I'm not sure if it will work on NT/2000 or XP haven't tried them with it)
I don't know where you were having your Password trouble Wet1 (If you can operate your system or not) but if you can run Bta, it hopefully give you the 16 alphanumeric letters or ascii.
(It didn't come up with any viruses with AVG, so it should be clean, feel free to check for yourself)
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Reign_of_Error
Registered Senior Member
I have been running windows xp professional for about a month on my machine and I love it.. it is fast and hasn't crashed once. Most of my software has run fine and I havn't had any problems with microsoft digital signatures.
My advice is, don't get the home edition, get the professional version so you don't have to mess around with the product activation rubbish..
incase you were wondering, my rigg is:
abit kt7a motherboard
duron 700@900MHz
quantum as 40 gig 7200 rpm hdd
soundblaster pci 128 soundcard
realtek 8029 network card
pioneer 16x DVD ROM
lite-on 16x10x40 cdrw drive
aopen 300W PSU
19" ADI monitor
Thats about it I think...
I'm dual booting with windows ME cos I know that works fine on my rigg before and I havn't needed to boot into that op since I put xp on, so I will be removing ME soon as I get round to it
My advice is, don't get the home edition, get the professional version so you don't have to mess around with the product activation rubbish..
incase you were wondering, my rigg is:
abit kt7a motherboard
duron 700@900MHz
quantum as 40 gig 7200 rpm hdd
soundblaster pci 128 soundcard
realtek 8029 network card
pioneer 16x DVD ROM
lite-on 16x10x40 cdrw drive
aopen 300W PSU
19" ADI monitor
Thats about it I think...
I'm dual booting with windows ME cos I know that works fine on my rigg before and I havn't needed to boot into that op since I put xp on, so I will be removing ME soon as I get round to it
From my understanding, you can change up to two hardware parts without reactivation. The reactivation doesn't cost anything, so it's not that bad after all. The scheme is enough to prevent software sharing/exchange amount common people, but has no effect on the l33t.
MS Permission!
Quote: My friend has Windows XP and guess what, he's quite happy with it. Yes it is true that you cannot change your hardware without Microsofts permission, but he has a CRACKED version of WINDOWS XP, so no need for stress."Unquote
No way is Microsoft going to tell me that I can change this or that in my pc!! I built my pc up from scratch and will change what I want when I want without permission from Mr "Have another upgrade" Gates.
Quote: My friend has Windows XP and guess what, he's quite happy with it. Yes it is true that you cannot change your hardware without Microsofts permission, but he has a CRACKED version of WINDOWS XP, so no need for stress."Unquote
No way is Microsoft going to tell me that I can change this or that in my pc!! I built my pc up from scratch and will change what I want when I want without permission from Mr "Have another upgrade" Gates.
this is just not the case. (read as FALSE Information)
read above. (you're fine)
You can change your hardware all you like LOL, as of windowsXP final (or gold code) product REactivation is not required untill after 6 hardware changes (as long as one of them is not the network card)....
If you buy the final of windows XP (which is an awsome product BTW, and is recommended) it takes 30 seconds online, or a free phone call to MS to activate the product
So lets say you upgrade 2 pieces of hardware per month....that means.....once every 3 months, you need to spend 30 seconds form your hectic life REactivating the OS. I realize thats a lot of time to be spending.
I guess that looks like you CAN'T change hardware.....but c'mon.
gimme some of that glue. (this is completely FALSE)
All you guys are complaining about "another upgrade"......as if they should stop making new OS's or making them better?...
Here's an idea, go run linux, and end up recompiling, or UPGRADING your kernel every once in a while..LOL, (my beef is that you all make it sound as though Microsoft is the only company in the world making thier products better, or upgrading them, or making newer shit)
RedHat (a linux distro), puts out newer verisons of thier distro of Linux on a scale twice that of MS. (this is true of almost ALL of the Linux ditribution companies)
I'm as happy as a pig in shit that MS is putting out newer, better OS's every 2 years or so, who in thier right mind wants to be running windows 98/ME forever? (ME is argualbly the WORST OS they have ever put out IMHO)
If your a big fan of those BSOD then don't get WindowsXP, because you'll never see them again if you do.
Looking for one of the most stable top of the line OS's on the market?..get WindowsXP.
Hey "f"
Are you sure that you are not Bill Gates dad? Your very supportive of XP aren't you? My complaint, not necessarily of all, is that Windows (MS) come out with these "cant do without" upgrades too often - not that they do it at all! Going by what you say - get XP or get lost! Windows XP does not have all the drivers in yet either - my scanner is not recognised by XP for example and Primax.nl (the makers) have not yet replied to a single mail I have sent on the subject. C'est la guerre - baby!!
Are you sure that you are not Bill Gates dad? Your very supportive of XP aren't you? My complaint, not necessarily of all, is that Windows (MS) come out with these "cant do without" upgrades too often - not that they do it at all! Going by what you say - get XP or get lost! Windows XP does not have all the drivers in yet either - my scanner is not recognised by XP for example and Primax.nl (the makers) have not yet replied to a single mail I have sent on the subject. C'est la guerre - baby!!
That's not the point, yes it consumes very little time. But it shouldn't consume ANY. If I buy windows XP, not that I ever BUY software, I can understand having to activate it once, that's pretty much a given. But after that, short of tech support I should NEVER have to deal with MS again about that product.
If you work in a large corporation, you might have a chance to see the Windows XP Corp. version, which requires no activation what so ever.
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