How does it feel to be poor?

[Mr. G]

Sure. Cry yourself to sleep.

Dream of Robin Hood.

Wake up and go to work tomorrow for someone else.

Tell us you're your own master.

 

[Raithere]

The point is it appears that alot of poor people are unaware that they are slaves, and need to buy their freedom. They convince eachother to go out and get a job to be a productive member of society. They are nothing but servants of the rich.

An issue of attitude, not position. Admittedly the system is not perfect and there are barriers to mobility that would ideally be eliminated. But slavery? I disagree.

My objective is to take their money, and use it to support the poor.

Right. As if you take all the money you save by stealing the fruit of other peoples labor and donate it to the poor. Sorry, but you're full of it. How is your attitude in any way different than the "Rich" who profit from the labor of poor?

It simply says alot about how totally disfunctional our society is. It is so damn parapalegic. I am pursuing an entertainment career, so I can make a ton money singing and dancing and acting. All knowing full well, that people should actually be paying to do this "work(fun)", much less getting paid to do it, much less getting paid a ton of money to do it. If these assholes of society want to pay artists to sing and dance and such, they might as well pay me the same way.

I find it ironic that you exhibit the same values that cause the problem you decry.

"Fuck 'em, just as long as I make a buck."

Face it, you're the problem not the solution.

~Raithere

 

[Raithere]

What is wrong with American workers making a good wage?

Someone else is willing to do it cheaper.

The ruling 1% see no difference between hard working citizens and slum dwellers in Bangalore.

Sure they do. The slum dweller will work harder and longer for less money. Thus reducing the production cost.

~Raithere

 

[lixluke]

How many inept, incompetent, unmotivated and/or lazy employees do the inept, incompetent, unmotivated and/or lazy actually

employ?

Make charitable contributions to?

Pay taxes for?

Are worth robbing by the inept, incompetent, unmotivated and/or lazy?

Why do the inept, incompetent, unmotivated and/or lazy consider the ept, competent, motivated and/or industrious to be assholes?

Because they aren't fellow inepts, incompetents, unmotivateds and/or lazies?

This changes nothing. Either you are rich, or you are working for the rich. The rich are inept and incompetent. Those with money in power

have not the slightest bit of competence whatsoever. They are all complete morons running amuck with their riches like idiots. Competence

describes an individual that actually knows that they are doing, and can be relied upon for proper service. The rich are the most

unreliable dunces on the planet. Choose to consider them competent if you will. they are absolutely inept. I have a better idea. How

about stripping these incompetent idiots of their wealth before they heart more people, and throw them in the trash where they belong?

A day's work for a day's wage. The working class built this country and were rewarded by the pinkie fingered fatcats.

Their jobs went to India and Honduras.

Who gives a crap about jobs going anywhere as if Americans have the right to these jobs. That fact that they want them in the first place

shows what idiotic slaves they are. Why the hell would you want a "job"? So you can serve your master like the idiot you are? Oh master,

I want to be your slave. Please don't let people in India do the work. I want to do it because I am a total loser.

Why must a person only rent themselves to their masters?

Why shouldn't a person be their own master?

If you can't provide for yourself, why should anyone else have to suffer your burden and their own, too?

Just because you exist in fact doesn't mean the rest of us have to support your sorry ass when you can't support any of us in return, let

alone yourself.

Slave mentality. Crab mentality. It is unecessary for any individual in a functioning society under a functioing institution to support

themselves. The only way to support yourself is to go live in the woods, wear some fig leaves, and eat worms and berries for lunch. And

if somebody tries to join you, throw them out so that you can be a hard working independent idiot.

Meanwhile, the point of a functioning institution is to provide for the individual. In order for an institution to remain functioning

well, it requires a certain amount of individuals to put in the labor. Those that do the labor should be compensated properly for their

efforts so that they have the desire to take up the work.

America is not a functioning institution. It is a disfunctional institution. It does not support the individual. It supports the rich.

Those that do the labor to support the rich are not properly compensated. Ergo, we see an ever increasing amount of financial

stratification. that is how bloody incompetent the rich are. That is how bloody incompentent the people are for thinking they have an

ethical right to any of these jobs going over seas, and even moreso incompetent for desiring them.

Do you think so lowly of the American worker?

Yes!!!!
This is so lowly and pathetic it is not even funny.
You actually believe that whoring yourself is so great, and you would rather your taxes go help the rich and corrupt than humans

regardless of who they are simply because no human deserves to live in crappy conditions.
This is the player hate attitude of "If I have to work, he should have to also". Total slave mentality. Why are you so proud to be a

pathetic servant? Because you make 30k per year? Woopty doo. You are still a servant. You are still a member of the working class. Go and

work for your money. Work work work because that is all you are good for. You are the epitome of pathetic.
Americans do not have an ethical right to these jobs. The fact that you even desire these jobs goes to show what a servant you are.
Do I think of you so lowly? I would rather not, but you think yourself as so lowly. It is you that desire these pathetic jobs. It is you that would claim you are your own master simply because you are not abusing the system, and the system is abusing you. It is you that have a problem with this 3% random statistic you threw out. If you are not talking about the rich, then there is nothing wrong with these 3% taking advantage of the system in order to sap the money for the rich so that it can be used for what it is meant for. To support the average individual regardless of socials stature.

And I am proud to be a worker. I'm good at what I do, pay taxes and keep a clean home. I enjoy a vacation once a year and can afford to have a few amenities as well. To sink to the level of a parasite, sucking wealth out of the labor of others would be against my own personal moral code. You celebrate the parasite class, I celebrate the majority that built this nation. Do you spit on construction workers? Laugh at waitresses? All this from someone nowhere close to being a member of the pinkie fingers brigade. A wannabe capitalist. I hope you are young. Otherwise you really are in for a lonely, sad life of hating those that made everything you touch.

The parasite are the rich. The point is to suck the wealth out of the rich. I would rather see tax money going first and formost to support people. The only leeches in society are the rich. There is no such thing as a poor person that is leeching off of society. Oh he's not working, but getting social benefits and welfare. Taxes are meant to help people. Not everybody has to work.

I don's spit on the labor class such as construction workers and stuff. I spit on the office workeers and the assholes that have a problem with poor people getting benefits without regard to whether they are working or not. Everybody has a right to such benefits, and should not be looked at any differently whether they are a slave like you or an individual that chooses not to work for these rich incompentent morons.


What you are talking about simply defies logic:
1. Why are you so proud of being a servant? If you would like to use the word worker, it is the same thing. Why?
2. What makes you think you are capable of supporting yourself or that you should be supporting yourself? Do you plan to go to the forest and live away from society so that you can support yourself?
3. As an example of an individual with nothing. Should not all humans be provided for regardless of whether or not they partake in the nonsense labors that you partake in?

 

[lixluke]

An issue of attitude, not position. Admittedly the system is not perfect and there are barriers to mobility that would ideally be eliminated. But slavery? I disagree.

Right. As if you take all the money you save by stealing the fruit of other peoples labor and donate it to the poor. Sorry, but you're full of it. How is your attitude in any way different than the "Rich" who profit from the labor of poor?

I find it ironic that you exhibit the same values that cause the problem you decry.

"Fuck 'em, just as long as I make a buck."

Face it, you're the problem not the solution.

~Raithere

The problem is you.
1. Slavery is just a term. It is not actual slavery in shackles, but it is hardly different. When you as a slave (or whatever you want to call it) have no choice. You have to work for the rich. If you do not, you cannot have the income of a decent life. I consider the US no different than a third world country. It might be more advanced than other countries, but it is not more advanced than the true first world country that modern civilization has yet to attain. Compared to the true first world country, the United States is a hell hole, and the rest of the 3rd world countries on the planet even worse.

2. What fruit of others labor are you talking about? I made a statement about taking the money back from the rich who molested it out of the poor, and use it to provide for the poor. Do you not know english?

3. You are a load of ad hom that has yet to address any actual point.

 

[lixluke]

For the sake of those that do not seem to comprehend reality:
Are you part of the top 1% rich people? I sure as hell am not. Do you believe these top 1% are in anyway competent? I sure as hell do not. Do you think America is really a first world country? Compared to other countries on this planet it is. You morons, and civilization as a whole have yet to taste a truly decent functioning first world civilization.

The institute of the true first world civilization first and formost has a far higher standard of living for every class. This standard is currently only available to the rich and especially not some idiot that thinks he is supporting himself making 30k a year so he can live his average life that he believes to be first world. Furthermore, the institute of the true first world is set up to decrease the amount of stratification or keep it level. There is little or no financial separation between any individual of any profession. Furthermore, the institute of the true first world allows all inhabitants truly equal protection under law. It does not allow 2 people to get 2 different levels of treatment/punishment for commiting the same crime. The life of a true first world knows little of petty indulgence and the health problems Americans are faced with because of them. Individuals in a true first world country enjoy a high level of intellect, personal health, witness seamless accelleration in technology for increasingly better lifestyles. The true first world country makes the USA look like the dumpster that it is. Eat that.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Are the terms 1st World, 2nd World, 3rd World still valid any more? And whats is a developing country? Is America no longer developing?

 

[Baron Max]

Are you part of the top 1% rich people? I sure as hell am not. Do you believe these top 1% are in anyway competent? I sure as hell do not.

Ye're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make it any more correct.

And isn't it great that you're free enough to make such statements? In many nations of the world, you wouldn't be permitted to say such things.

The true first world country makes the USA look like the dumpster that it is. Eat that.

Hmm, yeah ....and the first true galaxy in the universe will make the true first world country look like a dumpster, too. Now just what do you suppose either of those two statements mean? And what does it matter? What does it change?

Just saying things does NOT make them true or valid.

Baron Max

 

[Nickelodeon]

And isn't it great that you're free enough to make such statements? In many nations of the world, you wouldn't be permitted to say such things.

And yet it drives you mad that he said such things.

Just saying things does NOT make them true or valid.

Obviously, but unless you counter the point how do people make up their minds about anything? Just saying things are not true does NOT make them invalid either.

 

[lixluke]

What first true galaxy?
Nobody ever said saying a statement makes it true. A statement is true based on its validity.

Furthermore, I find it great to be free enough to make certain statements. But that does not mean I am going to fool myself into believing I am free, and not living in a substandard lifestyle because I have a 30k-50k salary per year. I am not going to sit there, take such crap, under the belief that being a hard working tax paying idiot makes me anything more than a drone for the rich.

When the rich are incompetent, it is up to others to take them down, and replace them.

Mr. G has this attitude that the rich are competent, and the poor are lazy inept incompetent people. Genji despises people that scam the government out of their money so they do not have to pay taxes, and taxes pay them.

I created a thread a few weeks ago trying to pinpoint the basis of this exact type of mentality.
http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=57514

I want to know more about it and understand it because I know people that think the rich are so great, and the poor are apathetic losers. These people seem to be gold diggers, but I want to understand more about their strange logic.

1. Why do the worship the rich as if the rich are in anyway competent?
2. Why do they hate the poor so much?
3. Why are they so upset at seeing tax money go to exactly where it should be going? Straight to the poor people so they do not have to work.

This country operates in plain reverse to progress, thereby destroying the earth, and eradicating many animals that now how to be under the support of humans in order to prevent extinction.

This reverse operation is this:
The poor serve the rich.

Some may not think anything of this, but the absurdity jumps out at me glaringly. I have less than you. You have more than me. And I am giving to you? This is how our economy operates. It only makes total sense that if I have more, I will be the one serving those with less.

Then there is this totally manipulated slave mentality. We need more jobs. We need to create more jobs. You dumb fucks, the point is to have less jobs. The point of technology is to do the work for us so we do not have to do it. The better technology we have, the less work we have to do to support the True First World Lifestyle. The unemployment rate is going up. Oh boo hoo. Who cares? Why the hell are we sop stupid enough to even think in terms of unemployment.

for example:
Consider city X. City X has population Y. There are Z amount of jobs within city X that need to addressed in order for City X to support its population with a first world lifestyle. The Z amount of jobs remain static for the most part with little change. As long as these jobs are fulfilled, the rest of the population is does not need to work. (The term "unemployment" is used to mean a bad thing. Oh no I am a slave, and I am not being put to work. We need more jobs.) The best thing is this: As technology increases, the Z amount decreases. The more technology we have, the less jobs are needed to support population Y within city X.

Now we shall use 0 pay as the base salary for every job. The pay will be raised depending on how many people are willing to do the job. The less desirable the job. The more we have to raise the pay rate to get somebody to do it.

There should be no tolerance for those that use a person's lack of education against them. Oh this person lacks the education. Therefore, I can get him to do a job for alot less than an educated person would ask to do this job.

 

[Raithere]

1. Slavery is just a term. It is not actual slavery in shackles, but it is hardly different. When you as a slave (or whatever you want to call it) have no choice. You have to work for the rich. If you do not, you cannot have the income of a decent life.

There are numerous ways of making a living that do not involve "working for the rich". Employee-owned companies for instance, which IMO can be an almost ideal model:
http://www.nceo.org/culture/index.html
http://www.nceo.org/library/eo100.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee-owned_corporation

Although there's more risk, you can also explore entrepreneurship:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneurship
http://sba.gov/

I consider the US no different than a third world country. It might be more advanced than other countries, but it is not more advanced than the true first world country that modern civilization has yet to attain. Compared to the true first world country, the United States is a hell hole, and the rest of the 3rd world countries on the planet even worse.

I applaud your idealism. A young man should be idealistic. But idealism rarely resolves any problems.

What fruit of others labor are you talking about? I made a statement about taking the money back from the rich who molested it out of the poor, and use it to provide for the poor. Do you not know english?

Better than you judging from your grammar and syntax but that's beside the point.

The fruit in this particular instance is the DVD or video game. While you may bemoan the presumably unbalanced economic distribution of the corporation that produced them the fact remains that many people contribute to such a product and when you steal from the corporation you are also stealing from those who are not "rich" but laboring to make a living.

3. You are a load of ad hom that has yet to address any actual point.

I've yet to deliver an ad hominem attack. I'm not saying that your argument is wrong because of something about you, I'm giving you a personalized example of how you argument is not entirely sound. You assert that the rich are molesting the poor but the example shows how your own willing participation contributes to the "problem".

What you may want to consider is that the problem is not quite as simple or clear as you attempt to maintain. Platitudes such as "corporations are bad" and "the rich take from the poor" do not accurately describe reality and therefore do nothing to resolve real problems; they are meaningless rhetoric and serve only political motives.

~Raithere

 

[lixluke]

But idealism rarely resolves any problems.

What you consider to be impractical idealism that does not solve any problems is actually true realism. It is true realism known to the commoner in a negative connotation as "idealism" that has brought about any progress in history. It is true realism and only true realism that sustains the fabric of everything. The true realists (often called idealists) that created the United States and challenged the impractical standard of fallacy.

You cannot bring about progress without knowing the objective. The objective no doubt is an increasingly higher standard living for all, and even such as I have described to be the true First World.

Unfortunately, the fakists that live under deception and limitation have no regard for actual practical progress. What is in front of them at face value is all they will ever know, all they will ever have, and all they will ever be. It is all they will operate of because it is all that they understand. Therefore, it leads to destruction. It is the backbone epitome of a collapsing society. You always hear such people say:
"I am a realist"
"I am just being realistic."
When in fact they have no idea what reality is. Nor do they operate with any basis in reality.

 

[lixluke]

when you steal from the corporation you are also stealing from those who are not "rich" but laboring to make a living.

Good nothing makes me happier than robbing the rich as well as the assholes that support them like drones. They support the rich with their labor. They support the rich by buying their products. They work for the rich in everyway. They despise the poor. Well we despise them. I have no respect for any of these idiots.

I respect those that do actual labor work, and deserve all the money that these leeches have taken. They should be stripped of the fruits of their stupidity so that the poor may be truly compensated for the real labor that they put in.

 

[lixluke]

"the rich take from the poor" do not accurately describe reality and therefore do nothing to resolve real problems; they are meaningless rhetoric and serve only political motives.

Wrong. They server no other motives than taking the money back from these asshole leeches so that the poor can be properly provided for and people that actually do labor can be compensated for hard work.

 

[Raithere]

cool skill:

Thank you for exemplifying my points.
It eliminates the need for me to do so myself.

~Raithere

 

[lixluke]

I applaud your idealism. A young man should be idealistic.

This is a snide adhom character attack.
It's a character invalidation used insidiously with no effect on the topic at hand.

Thank you for exemplifying my points.
It eliminates the need for me to do so myself.

If the point is the take back the wealth from the rich, and give it back to the poor who deserve it, I have clearly exemplified them.


I have come accross many people that have no basis of intellect, and focus 100% on character with zero focus on the facts at hand. Political inteintions or alterior intentions have nothing to do with the facts presented.
X is a fact whether or not my intention for stating the fact is for personal gain or not. Try focusing on topic or get lost.

 

[Raithere]

This is a snide adhom character attack.
It's a character invalidation used insidiously with no effect on the topic at hand.

Not in the least. I meant it quite sincerely.

Idealists energize progress, something which we dearly need. The problem is that ideals are rarely attainable. Humans are not perfect and as a consequence no system invented, administered, or applied by humans can be perfect. More or less is about as good as we can expect... but doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying to improve things.

If the point is the take back the wealth from the rich, and give it back to the poor who deserve it, I have clearly exemplified them.

No, I meant my points but never mind. A better question for you is; how would you go about correcting the imbalance?

~Raithere

 

[Baron Max]

A better question for you is; how would you go about correcting the imbalance?

Oh, so easy! He can just "idealize" right over any of those problems and imbalances! The great thing about idealism is that it can simply ignore any problems by just saying so! ...LOL!

Baron Max

 

[wesmorris]

not true. when my brother was working for his old engineering firm, they were charging $40 an hour for his labour, and paying him just over the minimum wage of $9.15 at the time. that other $30 goes into the pocket of the owner. the rich leech from the labour of the workers.

Obviously from an individual who doesn't understand the first thing about business.

You see, businesses have huge costs. To employ someone for instance, for $9.15 per hour costs at least probably $15 per hour, just in straight cost for taxes, disability insurance or whatever, etc. That's a pretty conservative estimate as well, and it's only the beginning of the costs the business undertakes. If they've really got their shit together, they maybe profit $10/hr for his work, but I doubt it, then again who knows.

Then there is the consideration as follows: Could your brother have generated the opportunity to do the work for $40 an hour without the employer? Would have have the means to do it if he could arrange the opportunity? Would he be able to generate another opportunity once he was finished with the one he generated?

If the answers to all three are yes, then the possibility exists for him to do it without the business he works for... maybe, depending on the scope of the job of course. For instance, if the job takes 10 guys to do, each working on their own part... how could he generate the opportunity without assuming the responsibility of owning a business, and the severe headaches that come with it.

Of course it's much easier to make stupid assumptions from socialist dogma than to actually consider why thinks work as they do. Of course "the man" is fucking him and couldn't possible pay him the fair wage he chose to accept. He had no choice but to take that particular job from that particular company, and bend right over.

 

[wesmorris]

There are people in this world that have millions and billions of dollars. Yet there is poverty on this planet. This is impractical. They should be stripped of their funds whic should be diverted to the poor.

Lol.

Yeah that will solve all the problems.

You see, rich people are rich for a reason.

Try your experiment and 6 months later everything is back the way it was before you started, though surely some of the names would change of who had the money.