baumgarten said:
Your response indicates you do
No I do not. You are a troll.
Oniw17 said:
So, explain to me. So far the only thing that you've explained is how many times you've explained your soluition.
I’m not going to go back and quote myself.
The point is the psychology of many that are completely under the impression that they are not slaves. More specifically participants in a system (or game if you will) that is not controlled by the people, is not intellectual, is completely dysfunctional from the ground up.
Nobody HAS to be a productive member of society. That is slavery. There is nothing wrong with wanting everybody to be productive, but imposing productive obligation is. Your attitude is what makes everybody unproductive. You have an attitude that people HAVE to be a productive member of society. You do not believe in choice.
A true First World says that if any individual within our society, feels that their society is mistreating them (oppression) they should not support it, but refuse cooperation, and choose retaliation.
Much of the violence and other forms of violent and nonviolent retaliations are a result of a system that has the attitude that they HAVE to be a productive member of society despite society’s inability to treat them with equality, and compensate them for their efforts.
No single person in a true First World lives in lack of a very well functioning standard of living. Such as posed in the questionnaire. You claim that nobody such has the rights to such standards, and yet everybody has the obligation to be a productive member of a crap world country.
Explain yourself.
I’ll repost this. These are not all, but a decent summary of the amenities the public can and should be afforded. Nobody has the obligation to support or be a productive member of any society in such as many people in this thread continue to impose. The fact is, all have the obligation not to support and be productive of a society that does not live up to First World standards that all are entitled to.
(Why are all entitled to the following standard? For no other reason that we are human beings that have the technology and capacity for such standards. We would be fools not to demand a cleaner earth, and a true First World standard of living.
steady supply of fresh real natural foods for consumption
steady supply of clean pure water
herbal and natural body chemistry plan for specifically alleviating any ailments you might have
a place to sleep to call your own (Ownership meaning you do not have to pay anybody for it in the form of rent or taxes. You own your place like you own your underwear.)
a set of clothing articles
a clean place to use the bathroom
facilities and a steady supply of items for personal care and beauty
full access and facilities for physical fitness, mind/body development, community relationship development
steady supply of items needed for cleaning your territory and belongings
free from physical violence, captivity, and forced labor
medical care and services for emergencies
planet and environment being cared for, nurtured, and cultivated
access to all statistics and information about the institute you and your neighbors own
full access to a high standard of curriculum of intelligent general education
no highly stratified amounts of wealth and amenities
free from discrimination in your dealings and services
regular safe flow of energy in your community, communications, and easy access to venues
free to choose to serve society willingly over any communist obligation to be a productive member of society?
Any society that imposes obligation to individuals is not a society that is about freedom. It is never ceases to amaze me how Americans speak of being free, and at the same time speak of obligation to the country. It is simple double speak of 1984. Clear classic mass manipulation.
A free country does not impose obligation on individuals, especially, when they do not live by many of the simple practical requirements of true First World Standards as summarized above.
wesmorris said:
I see.
I forget sometimes about the fact that the mentally ill have computers, internet access... and can type.
My condolences.
spuriousmonkey said:
Raithere said:
How am I a slave? Work is not slavery. I enjoy what I do, no one is forcing me, and no one is coercing me. I found something I enjoyed and became good enough at it to make a living at it. Then I found other things I enjoyed and was good at and put them to work for me.
Maybe you are not the rule?
No. This is exactly what I am talking about.
It's not slavery as in actual shackles and forced labor.
It is "I found something that I am good at, and blah bah blah."
This is totally pathetic. It is the typical meanderings of a good little drone.
How about screw these assholes. I am only here because this is the best I can get. I can only do my best to provide for those who I care for as well as the homeless which I would not have to do if my country my country was not doing a suck job. As I participate in efforts to clean up the mess that my country has made by supporting such organizations dedicated to cleaning up after America’s incompetence, I know for bleeding sure that I am not contributing to any permanent solution.
Raithere said:
I challenge you to try something new. Go work at a soup-kitchen this Thanksgiving. Or volunteer a weekend with Habitat for Humanity. Even better, this winter go buy a few blankets or some winter gloves or make some cups of hot coffee and hand them out to the homeless living on the street.
WTF? Do I look like I have time for this crap?
I have lived in homeless shelters before. The conditions are substandard. The conditions of this entire country are way substandard.
Raithere said:
Do this and you'll know how to find that utopia you claim to be looking for because I assure you it isn't sitting there in front of your TV next to your x-box or in the gym.
1. You are a moron for insinuating anybody ever claimed to be looking for utopia.
2. Nobody ever mentioned sitting t in front of TV/Xbox/gym.
CULTURAL STUPIDITY:
Every time somebody talks about practical city design, there is automatically a negative connotation instead of a positive one. This is how backwards our culture is. A functional culture has the opposite attitude.
These attitudes are manifest whenever people speak of city design and social improvement. They talk about idealism in a negative connotation. This does is not reality based perception. They talk about ho realistic their culturally demented views are. This is not reality based perception. They throw out terms such as ‘utopia’, ‘idealist’, ‘human nature’, and other terms in a negative connotation
I do not even use the term utopia because it has been cursed with many negative connotations. Nor does it have any relevance.
According to Wikipedia:
Ideas which could be/are considered able to radically change our world are often called utopian ideas.
"Utopian" in a negative meaning is used to discredit ideas as too advanced, too optimistic or unrealistic, impossible to realize.
Although some authors have described their utopias in detail, and with an effort to show a level of practicality, the term "utopia" has come to be applied to notions that are (supposedly) too optimistic and idealistic for practical application.
According to Oxford dictionary, it is usually used negatively to criticise proposals or ideas having or aiming for a level of perfection of utopia which is impossible or very difficult to achieve.
Let us for example define utopia as the perfect society in which everybody is happy.
Let us now pursue utopia.
Let us now not pursue utopia.
Either way the pursuit or lack of pursuit of such a society is irrelevant.
It is not that such a society exists or does not exist. It is that it’s existence is irrelevant.
What is relevant?
1. Elimination of negative connotations of progressive city design as fantastical, unrealistic, impractical, radical, and worst of all, impossible.
2. These cultural connotations are a fallacy in terms of assessing and analyzing proposals. When addressing proposals, one can question the methods and principals involved. Approaching proposals in subjective to cultural fallacies is not a clear perception of reality.
3. City design is necessary, it is practical, it is realistic, it is important, and it is necessary.
You cannot ask a question if utopia fantasy idealism is bad or not because it simply does not apply. It is a cultural fallacy concept with the purpose of discrediting anything based on itself. This is the epitome of circular reasoning.
Raithere said:
And you don't think that a system that coddles and cares for you as if you were a child makes you dependent?!?
This is not an issue. All communities from tribals to major civilization are communities of interdependence.
You are independent in that you are free to do what you will as of your choice.
Dependence is the dependence on a crap salary to make ends meet. That is a society of dependence. That is the furthest thing from independence.
Society should not be teaching humans how to think. It should be teaching humans how to think for themselves.
When talking about dependence and independence, reality mandates that all humans are dependent on personal maintenance.
In the book I am writing, “The Guide to Life”, the category 1 human objective is personal care. Addressing physical needs.
Lesson 1: Life
Life is your birth until your death. Assuming, you never travel to outer space, life is your brief stay on earth. I will often refer to your life as your stay on earth.
(If you do travel to outer space, your life is your brief stay in this universe or even waking reality.)
There are 2 important objectives for every human:
1. To have the best possible stay on earth.
2. To be a beneficial influence to the best possible stay on earth of others as well as to be a beneficial influence to the planet earth that hosts and supports us.
This guide is a resource to provide information and useful direction to make your stay on earth the best it can be for you and all others.
Lesson 2: Personal Care
It doesn’t matter who you are, your current circumstance, or your financial status. From the slave to the prisoner to the poor to the drone to the entrepreneur to the filthy rich, - we all have the same basic physical needs. No matter what you are doing in your life, physical personal care is the most important objective. All humans must take part in personal care activities on a regular basis. The better you take care of yourself, the far better your stay on earth will be. Your experience on earth is dependent most on your ability to take care of yourself.
These are the 7 activities for full personal care:
1. Food and water consumption.
2. Waste expulsion. (Going to the bathroom.)
3. Sleep.
4. Personal care and beauty.
5. Mind/Body physical development and fitness.
6. Clean clothing.
7. Clean and organized personal territory.
Properly addressing these physical needs before anything else will give you enormous amount of energy and vitality, thereby propelling you into massive focused action, and a great life.
© cool skill
When you ask if I think I am not dependent on a society using loaded terms such as “coddled”, it shows your crab mentality. Everybody no matter who you are is relegated to the necessities of personal physical care. Technology creates an enormous benefit in our ability to receive personal care.
Raithere said:
To have freedom you must have risk
False and irrelevant. We are not even discussing risk. Nobody “must” have any such thing as an intangible concept such as risk. Freedom is freedom period. Freedom means you do not have to do anything more than violate the freedom of others. I have described freedom all over this forum.
Freedom is the lack of freedom to violate the freedom of others. Nothing more and nothing less. It is not risk or responsibility.
You are truly free when your rights are not being violated by others. Your imposition of obligation in exchange for freedom is double speak 1984. Freedom = Slavery.
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1/.
Other than the lack of freedom to violate the rights of others, freedom is nothing else. It is and most importantly is the lack of any sort of obligation that the law imposes or that the masses feel they wish to impose. Nobody is obligated to participate in a system that is disfunctional. If anything, we are obligated to eradicate it.
Raithere said:
you must have responsibility. I don't want protection, I don't want security, I don't need someone to hold my hand when I cross the street
STRAWMAN YOU MORON
WTF????
Stop strawmanning everything. The whole cultural stupidity is not only circular reasoning, it is blatant strawman.
Raithere said:
You're not asking for freedom CS, you're asking for utter dependency
Speak for yourself.
Raithere said:
Ah, but what fun is a game if its not challenging?
Nobody is talking about a video game that was specifically created to be challenging.
We are talking about city design that creates technology so taking care of the earth and humanity need not be so challenging.
Raithere said:
It's obvious you're not a drone but you are still under control. Do you really think they haven't taken rebellion into account? Rebellion is no danger to them; it plays right into their hand. You'll be suppressed, incarcerated, or marginalized. I'll share with you my own epiphany on the subject; by reacting, even negatively, as a matter of route you are no less being controlled than those that submit.
Such as yourself?
Nobody is talking about physical submission. Anybody can go work for the system and play use the system specifically for the purpose of destroying the system.
This is not submission.
Submission is abiding by their game in their way.
We are all “forced” to play a game that is structured for their benefit.
Now if you are dropped into the matrix or the cube, you have to find your way out.
Submission is accepting that the fallacy that there is no way out, lying down, and dying like the rest of these brainwashed idiots. “Oh I am rich and har har har yet I live a complete lie under an illusion.”
Red pill or blue pill? The red pill might not be the happy one, but it at least it is a real one.
Raithere said:
You do have a choice. You can choose what game to play and how to play it
You do not have a choice. You HAVE to play the game whether you like it or not. The only ones that do have a choice are the game masters. It is they that need to be eliminated. When it comes to player versus player, it might not be as difficult. When it comes to player versus game master, this is where it gets complicated.
Raithere said:
If you leech off the system that I contribute to, I am supporting you.
You are an idiot. You cannot even answer the question.
cool skill said:
Raithere said:
My question to you, who brags about leeching off the system, is why should I support you?
Where did I ever say you should support me? Show me. Otherwise, stop being an idiot, and misinterpreting everything I am talking about.
There is a difference between supporting somebody, and somebody taking their money.
I have said it a billion times on this forum. There is no such thing as a poor person that is a leech.
What makes you think money that should go to support poor people can possibly be leeching.
Leeches are the rich. The rich are the parasites.
The point is to take as much money from the real leeches and all the idiots that support them, so you never have to lift a finger for those bastards.
If anything, you should be happy it goes straight to me. There are thousands of places tax money can go. There is no place I would rather see my tax dollars (that have been stripped away from me as a result of my own forced labor) go than to poor people so they do not have to endure the crap that I have to.
Raithere said:
Rights are not entitlements. Rights are what you have and should never be deprived of. Rights are not something that someone can give you, they can only be surpressed. This is why they require diligent protection. Entitlements are demands upon someone else
We have our rights, and are entitled to their protection. It is a demand, and it is an ethical demand. What is unethical is the deprivation of our rights. Inequality of one individual’s rights being protected over another individual’s rights. This is not freedom or equality.