How can “absolute zero” be proven?

exchemist said:
None of the inert gases (Helium, Neon, Argon, Krypton,Xenon, Radon) easily forms normal chemical bonds. All of them are monatomic gases. That is because all of them have complete outer shells of electrons. There are no "vacancies" in the outermost shell, ready to be filled by sharing electrons with another atom, which is what happens in chemical bonding.

This rule gets a bit weaker, however, with the larger members of the series, e.g. Xenon, which has some empty electron orbitals, not too much higher in energy, into which electrons can be promoted, leaving behind a gap which can be used to form bonds.

This Morse potential can however also be applied to the much weaker attraction due to London "dispersion" forces. These are not chemical bonds, but a feeble attraction due to a sort of flickering of tiny partial electric charges on neighbouring atoms due to the motion of their electrons (or to uncertainty in their position). There is a Wiki article on this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_dispersion_force. in which you will see the good old Morse potential, or something very similar, pops up yet again.

These dispersion forces produce an attraction between molecules that causes molecular substances to condense into liquid and finally the solid state.
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You’ve helped me gain greater confidence in understanding this, but I need to delve deeper into the intricacies of these rules. I appreciate your patience actually, as my questions might seem silly on the surface.
 
foghorn said:
I would say the photon density in an area not space itself.
If you were looking for Absolute Zero, would you shield the experiment from the affects of the CMB photons? If yes, then why?


I was reading a book on helium and I couldn't put it down.
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Arf arf.

I suspect the problem is you can’t shield anywhere from CMB photons, because the shield would itself be at a minimum of 2.7K.
 
wegs said:
You’ve helped me gain greater confidence in understanding this, but I need to delve deeper into the intricacies of these rules. I appreciate your patience actually, as my questions might seem silly on the surface.
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Far from it. I’m probably going far too far into all this and boring you, but I seldom get a chance to talk chemistry here!
 
exchemist said:
Far from it. I’m probably going far too far into all this and boring you, but I seldom get a chance to talk chemistry here!
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Not boring at all! I got a little off track about helium.
 
wegs said:
Not boring at all! I got a little off track about helium.
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I have been locked out of the site but I am back now and ready to post. You were talking about states of matter, solid liquid and gas - there is another plasma.
Lots of it in stars so the most abundant "phase" of matter in the universe. (of normal matter)

I would check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose–Einstein_condensate

Some history and features. Also check out the little graphic.
 
Please post on topic. This kind of attention-seeking behaviour is a form of trolling.
I'm trying to reform.
 
Moderator note: Mr. G has been warned (again) for posting off-topic nonsense.

His attention-seeking behaviour and trolling is starting to become a drain on moderator time and effort. More importantly, it adds no value to the forum. If this continues, a permanent ban will become necessary.

For now, Mr. G will be taking a short break from sciforums, due to accumulated warning points.
 
exchemist said:
As DaveC426913 says, it is not generally true that no motion occurs at absolute zero, because so-called zero point energy remains in many systems (including vibrational systems) in their ground state. However this remaining energy cannot be extracted, as there is no state below the ground state.
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Dave's web site seems to no longer exist.

I thank you for gifting me something from this place that has gotten me thinking.

--G
 
Mr. G said:
Dave's web site seems to no longer exist.

I thank you for gifting me something from this place that has gotten me thinking.

--G
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I was referring, not to a website, but to post 2 of this thread, made by DaveC426913 .

The residual energy of the ground state is called the "zero point energy" precisely because it persists at absolute zero.

Electrons in an atom and the vibration of molecules both have ground states with residual, zero point energy. Molecular rotation, however, does not: the ground rotational state is stationary, with no kinetic energy of rotation.

(Zero point energy in modern popular science parlance tends to be spoken of in relation to the zero point energy of the vacuum, which is a feature of quantum field theory, which as a chemist I never learned. But actually it is also much more general feature of the quantum mechanics of just about all systems.)
 
The multiple postings derive from failing hardware and networking confusion.

I'm self-identifying as Joseph Biden until this passes.

It's not my wish to give you folks easy stuff to jam me up.
 
Mr. G said:
The multiple postings derive from failing hardware and networking confusion.

I'm self-identifying as Joseph Biden until this passes.

It's not my wish to give you folks easy stuff to jam me up.
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Any time you want to talk science, I'll be happy to do the best I can, though admittedly my knowledge is rusty these days.

Meanwhile, I've taken you off "Ignore", for the time being. :)
 
Mr. G said:
Dave's web site seems to no longer exist.

I thank you for gifting me something from this place that has gotten me thinking.

--G
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Just thinking out loud;

Is there an accumulation of zero-point-energy fields that are attracted to the ground state boundary like electrons on a capacitor plate?

No place to go, just hanging out?
 
Mr. G said:
Just thinking out loud;

Is there an accumulation of zero-point-energy fields that are attracted to the ground state boundary like electrons on a capacitor plate?

No place to go, just hanging out?
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No they are not fields, just the lowest energy state of any quantum system. An example is the ground state of the electron in the hydrogen atom, with its electron in the 1s orbital. There is no lower energy state than this so the residual energy the electron has in this state is the zero point energy of the state.

I have places to go but at the moment I am waiting for a plumber to come back with a new shower control cartridge, to replace the worn out one he has just removed, which was leaking. So for now I'm stuck here talking to you. :)
 
Mr. G said:
Just thinking out loud;

Is there an accumulation of zero-point-energy fields that are attracted to the ground state boundary like electrons on a capacitor plate?

No place to go, just hanging out?
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Возможно, внутри чёрных дыр?
 
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